What can be done to rival UFC?

I love this delusion of somehow copying Pride will make it a competitor to the UFC, when Pride not only was Pride never a competitor to the UFC in the first place, but it is absolutely miniscule compared to what the UFC is now. You're going to copy a league that isn't any more successful than a couple of other leagues today?

it's incredible that people cannot separate their own fandom from reality. Pride and Rizin are SIGNIFCANTLY closer to each other than they are to the UFC, which will be worth 10 billion dollars by the end of the decade.

If Pride existed now and was the exact same as its prime, people would still be making threads asking what can promotions do to rival the UFC.

That's not to mention there was a promotion that copied everything Pride did and it wasn't any bigger than the "b-league" promotions today.
 
I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about. Most of those are defunct amd/or dodnt do GP and the ones that did GP either surpassed UFC (Pride) or vetted out great fighters like Jiri and Nemkov via GPs.
Woaaaah, you're right. I had no idea Strikeforce and Dream were defunct promotions. You got me with my pants down. I been frauding since 07. I should have double checked their wikis.

A GP doesn't mean fight twice in one day. A Grandprix is a tournament, in which case literally every major org has tournaments outside the UFC - so it obviously isn't a very creative idea to make an org "a rival" to the UFC.
Really? When was the last time the UFC had fighters fight twice in 1 day?
You do not need to fight multiple times in one day for it to be a GP.


It's difficult to book, difficult to promote, fighters dont like it, sanctioning bodies don't like it. So in other words, it's pretty counter productive to being a "rival" to the UFC, unless your idea of being a rival is going out of business.
We've talked about much more than that in this thread. At this point you just sound whiny.
No, other people have brought it up. You just keep talking about fighters cause you clearly are ignorant.

You're using the word whiny when your threads are all about whining about the present.
Theres a big difference in how promotions implement tune up fights. Your pretending it's all the same when it's not. And the ones that complain about it are typically American stat obsessed fans who care more for meaningless numbers, fake bad blood or boring ass oppoment specific strategies who think winning is the only thing that matters and don't care for performance or how the fights actually play out
No, it's not usually just American fans, and if you wanted to be a "rival to the UFC" then American fans are the ones you want to deal with.







Let go of the past buddy. Pride was a domestic promotion in which case MMA has many domestic promotions now. Copying Pride wouldn't turn you into a multi billion dollar company like the UFC, seeing as how Pride was never worth even a 100 million in the first place without its TV deal.

Rizin is already a better business than Pride was. Oh boo hoo, Rizin doesn't have a bunch of white guys in it like Pride did.
 
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Woaaaah, you're right. I had no idea Strikeforce and Dream were defunct promotions. You got me with my pants down. I been frauding since 07. I should have double checked their wikis.
You named a bunch of defunct promos to try to make it seem like tons of major promotions currently do GPs when that's not the case. Clearly I hit a nerve since you resort to sissy sarcasm.


A GP doesn't mean fight twice in one day.

Historically that's what they were. K1 created GPs and Pride used it too. Coker co-opted it for marketing purposes for Strikeforce and again for Bellator but it made no sense since there was only 1 fight per night. With 1 fight per night it's simply a bracketed title eliminator format.
literally every major org has tournaments outside the UFC
PFLs tournament is not a GP and they never even called it that. Recently they are changing the format to copy strikeforce & bellator but WSoF and PFL have never held that type of tournament


No, other people have brought it up. You just keep talking about fighters cause you clearly are ignorant.
I'll slow it down and spell it out for you since you're having trouble following along.

I and Others in this thread...

Have talked about TV deals...

and streaming deals.

We've talked about...

what type of investers...

or investments it would take, and more


No, it's not usually just American fans, and if you wanted to be a "rival to the UFC" then American fans are the ones you want to deal with.

So harp on " American fan" but leave out the "stat obsessed" part. No one needs those fans. They only look at stats and barley watch the actual fights.


Pride was never worth even a 100 million in the first place without its TV deal.
UFC wouldnt be worth anything without a TV deals either. What a weak strawman.


Pride not only was Pride never a competitor to the UFC in the first place, but it is absolutely miniscule compared to what the UFC is now
This has to be the most hilariously asinine opinion I've ever seen. Of course Pride was a competitor. They literally stole UFCs best fighters, including a belt holder. They had crowds of 70k to over 90k. Something your precious UFC has never done.
If Pride existed now and was the exact same as its prime, people would still be making threads asking what can promotions do to rival the UFC.
Except UFC was 2nd to Pride in everybway while Pride existed. Talj about delusional, revisionist history <lmao>

Man you really just keep digging a deeper and deeper hole. All because you felt the need to come in and act like an asshole for no reason. And now you look stupid so you keep doubling down on stupidity. Just move on dude
 
No-one really have the wish that the UFC has a 99% monopoly of the MMA market expect them.

A total monopoly would signifty absolute power, and absolute power will only lead to abuse. That is why we support alternatives, like PFL, One, ACA, and medium one like KSW and Rizin.

Like Leto said, if you want to rival the UFC, PFL or the dead Bellator model are not a safe road. Find a local audience, become a KSW, a Rizin, an Octogon, that would be a nice place to start.

It's not even about being a rival to the UFC, it's all about surviving when you are new and building a stable base.

The worst mistake is to sign in the UFC fight pass, pondering them, bowing to them. That is for sure a receipe to disaster. ADCC left the UFC fight pass for a reason. It's not even that great in term of quality and is full of limitations.

All organizations are claiming to be stable even if they are not, and if they are not profitable they will claim that they will be profitable soon. There is no transparency, everyone is basically lying about his financial situation for his better good.

Only ACA and KSW are somehow stable. PFL and One are struggling but managed to save faces left and right. ACA is backed up by a nation indirectly. Same things with KSW. They are national product or supported by local country. KSW is broadcasted by Polsat for instance, and ACA is sponsored by russian corporations.

You've got to be backed up by a nationalist nation and corporations to thrive as a regional organization.

What no-one talk about is how politics make a mess, ACA was under sanction by the US due to ties with Kadyrov, ACA youtube channel for example was deleted. They had to create a new one.

It's really a complex world, but if you want to compete in the UFC, you've got to be from the west. Because of sanctions, an iranian, north korean or russian promotion will always be at a disadvantage against western competitors.

Who is going to win from this cold war between organization ? The clear winner are the share holders.

Tons of people are complaining about the evil monopoly of the UFC, they want a miracle, they want a savior.
I'm not naive enough to believe such things. And even if there were let's say a savior.

An organization smarter than Bellator, wiser than PFL, more ruthless than One, luckier, sharper, stronger, richer, better.

If there was an MMA organization like that, let's call it X who become a serious competitor to the UFC, in the end it won't matter at all.

An MMA organization is first a corporation, let's talk about food, sodas, chocolates, technology, cars, laptops, etc. Some corporations could be rivals, or opponents/competitors to each others with each a different CEO, but could have the same shareholders.

With a simple example :

Corporation A and Corporation B, they appear to be rivals, competitors to each others, or even enemies, but what if I tell you that they are owned by the same shareholders. The same things will go on with MMA itself.

Whoever come on top do not matter to the shareholders, they are winning in both case whoever come on top, or if Corporation A is equally matched with corporation B they are miling the two cows.

Who owns the UFC ? Dana ? Dana White does not even own 10 % of it.

Many critics are talking about the lack of traditions, honor, and values in modern combat sport. Forget about these things they simply do not exist. It's about two things, entertainment and money. Combat sport is ruled by greed.

All what I'm trying to say is, some people want alternatives, they want a savior. The "savior" the MMA organization that is suppose to save them is first before being an organization a corporation. And a corporation is not ethical, but directed by profit, and profit only.

This is not my opinion, I talked with an insider about this. "If BlackRock and Vanguard are not owning you, you are nothing".

Just take a look at TKO before and after merging with WWE. (WWE is fake, it's shitty but the same is happening to MMA) Look --> Here

View attachment 1085172

There is no hope. If there was a potential rival to the UFC, let's call it X Corporation, it will be quickly given an offer that it cannot turn down, and be owned by greedy people. That's how the world functions.

A lot of people I discussed this issue called me a delusional, and whoever is reading this and is thinking that I'm bullshitting, you are simply not educated enough on this matter to understand it.

Just watch this video, it's a big long but worth the squeeze. It's explained all about shareholders being the same of rivals corporations. Please watch this, and thank me later.

LINK --> Here. "The truth will set you free"

Who are the shareholders of the UFC ? Who are the shareholders of PFL ? Who are the shareholders of ONE ? They are not the same, right now, but if they become serious rivals to the UFC they will end up with the same shareholders.

Those same shareholders will be the puppet masters of the MMA game.

Right now there is no such a thing as an "UFC Killer".

ACA is more Russia focused than international.
GFL is a joke.
PFL is making a lot of bad moves on the chess board.

One is profitable in Thailand, but not in Asia. They are very good at raising investors and they are keeping doing it without any problems.
View attachment 1085173
No-one will save us from greed.

If an organization ever came to rival the UFC, it will end up like it. Is ONE an example for treating it's fighter better than the UFC ? Not really. The promotion of values, ethics, honor, respect, it's all a marketing bullshit.

Nothing matter, I'm not complaining or anything. No-one will be able to draw conclusion without being on the inside, it's a very misty world, like the british are saying, "follow the money".
I think you're right it probably will never go back to how it was in the golden years but even with the current incentive structure I think a better product is possible... probably not likely though. Just possible
 
I'll never understand why TF fans like yourself care about all the background stuff like people's jobs and how much money is being made, I never watched or paid attention to NHB/MMA for that BS could care less about what's good business practice, organizations that go under do so because the fan base are pathetic and got marketed to simple as that, UFC is a terrible product it's theatre more than fighting and I don't GAF how good their business practices are I only was ever interested for the intriguing match-ups and skill levels, now they have substituted shit talk, oversaturated events/rosters over those things I mentioned.

I find it amusingly ironic that UFC did away with grandiose entrances because they wanted to separate themselves from wrasslin. Meanwhile, the only way they can drum up interest is fake bad blood and fake drama. They've literally created the worst of all worlds lol.

I still tune in only for the occasional interesting matchup. Thats another irony. There is so much more mma but the interesting match ups are fewer and farther between.... it's almost like boxing come to think of it. Boxing + WWE drama
 
I think you're right it probably will never go back to how it was in the golden years but even with the current incentive structure I think a better product is possible... probably not likely though. Just possible
It can reverse for many reasons one being that imo many of the current UFC fans are casuals and will grow out of it, secondly if an organization starts somewhere besides the U.S imo Japan is the most likely place considering their history of great organizations Rings, Pancrase, Pride, Shooto etc, this potential new org will begin offering more incentives better pay, more prestige, attract more world wide fighters, tournaments with the best in the world this org would present itself more like the Olympics than cage fighting, as popularity grows from within the community people take notice as well as fighters and go there.

To continue on as to why this can and most likely will occur is that not everyone has the same personality as can be seen by the differing opinions here, a lot of the UFC success has been convincing the fan base that the absolute best are in the UFC which isn't true Sakikabara exposed this years back, also there are probably 45% of people that don't think the way the UFC fan base do and they desperately want an alternative like I don't watch too many of UFC's televised fight nights and a lot of others are saying the same, so who are buying the PPV's and tuning into the fight nights mostly new fans and casuals who one day will get bored and move on.


Another reasoning this one very important is the fighters themselves have gotten fed up with UFC business practices and left, Ngannou and many others and really there is more than enough talent to be found outside of the U.S this has been proven time and time again, it's just someone is gonna have to step up and another poster here made a great point about orgs starting as nationally supported this is so important so as to not rely on investors, that is key and then attract foreign fighters.
 
I find it amusingly ironic that UFC did away with grandiose entrances because they wanted to separate themselves from wrasslin. Meanwhile, the only way they can drum up interest is fake bad blood and fake drama. They've literally created the worst of all worlds lol.

I still tune in only for the occasional interesting matchup. Thats another irony. There is so much more mma but the interesting match ups are fewer and farther between.... it's almost like boxing come to think of it. Boxing + WWE drama
I still tune into some of their events just to keep up with what's happening, a big problem for me is the roster is too big and there's way too many fighters to keep up with or care about, another I've went into is that it seems that majority of fighters a MT or kickboxers with little grappling credentials like I've seen blue belt level guys WTF this is the highest level really.

The fake drama sells to the lower IQ fan base that's it, a lot of undeserved title shots as well and pushing of personalities rather than merit.

The sad thing is that Rizin had great scouting, amazing rule-set, GP's and put on an epic show all at the same time, I think the pandemic threw a monkey wrench in their plans because after that everything changed despite what people are saying about the president not wanting to go the route of being number 1 that's what I think.
 
Defeatist to the letter lol

It's not defeatist. Promotions go under when they try to get over ambitious and get in large amounts of debt. I can see this happening with both PFL and ONE who are in enormous losses.

Promotions like RIZIN, KSW and Oktagon are stable, they exist in regions where the UFC doesn't go that often, they do good live gates, they're profitable and they can pay their fighters well.
 
No-one really have the wish that the UFC has a 99% monopoly of the MMA market expect them.

A total monopoly would signifty absolute power, and absolute power will only lead to abuse. That is why we support alternatives, like PFL, One, ACA, and medium one like KSW and Rizin.

Like Leto said, if you want to rival the UFC, PFL or the dead Bellator model are not a safe road. Find a local audience, become a KSW, a Rizin, an Octogon, that would be a nice place to start.

It's not even about being a rival to the UFC, it's all about surviving when you are new and building a stable base.

The worst mistake is to sign in the UFC fight pass, pondering them, bowing to them. That is for sure a receipe to disaster. ADCC left the UFC fight pass for a reason. It's not even that great in term of quality and is full of limitations.

All organizations are claiming to be stable even if they are not, and if they are not profitable they will claim that they will be profitable soon. There is no transparency, everyone is basically lying about his financial situation for his better good.

Only ACA and KSW are somehow stable. PFL and One are struggling but managed to save faces left and right. ACA is backed up by a nation indirectly. Same things with KSW. They are national product or supported by local country. KSW is broadcasted by Polsat for instance, and ACA is sponsored by russian corporations.

You've got to be backed up by a nationalist nation and corporations to thrive as a regional organization.

What no-one talk about is how politics make a mess, ACA was under sanction by the US due to ties with Kadyrov, ACA youtube channel for example was deleted. They had to create a new one.

It's really a complex world, but if you want to compete in the UFC, you've got to be from the west. Because of sanctions, an iranian, north korean or russian promotion will always be at a disadvantage against western competitors.

Who is going to win from this cold war between organization ? The clear winner are the share holders.

Tons of people are complaining about the evil monopoly of the UFC, they want a miracle, they want a savior.
I'm not naive enough to believe such things. And even if there were let's say a savior.

An organization smarter than Bellator, wiser than PFL, more ruthless than One, luckier, sharper, stronger, richer, better.

If there was an MMA organization like that, let's call it X who become a serious competitor to the UFC, in the end it won't matter at all.

An MMA organization is first a corporation, let's talk about food, sodas, chocolates, technology, cars, laptops, etc. Some corporations could be rivals, or opponents/competitors to each others with each a different CEO, but could have the same shareholders.

With a simple example :

Corporation A and Corporation B, they appear to be rivals, competitors to each others, or even enemies, but what if I tell you that they are owned by the same shareholders. The same things will go on with MMA itself.

Whoever come on top do not matter to the shareholders, they are winning in both case whoever come on top, or if Corporation A is equally matched with corporation B they are miling the two cows.

Who owns the UFC ? Dana ? Dana White does not even own 10 % of it.

Many critics are talking about the lack of traditions, honor, and values in modern combat sport. Forget about these things they simply do not exist. It's about two things, entertainment and money. Combat sport is ruled by greed.

All what I'm trying to say is, some people want alternatives, they want a savior. The "savior" the MMA organization that is suppose to save them is first before being an organization a corporation. And a corporation is not ethical, but directed by profit, and profit only.

This is not my opinion, I talked with an insider about this. "If BlackRock and Vanguard are not owning you, you are nothing".

Just take a look at TKO before and after merging with WWE. (WWE is fake, it's shitty but the same is happening to MMA) Look --> Here

View attachment 1085172

There is no hope. If there was a potential rival to the UFC, let's call it X Corporation, it will be quickly given an offer that it cannot turn down, and be owned by greedy people. That's how the world functions.

A lot of people I discussed this issue called me a delusional, and whoever is reading this and is thinking that I'm bullshitting, you are simply not educated enough on this matter to understand it.

Just watch this video, it's a big long but worth the squeeze. It's explained all about shareholders being the same of rivals corporations. Please watch this, and thank me later.

LINK --> Here. "The truth will set you free"

Who are the shareholders of the UFC ? Who are the shareholders of PFL ? Who are the shareholders of ONE ? They are not the same, right now, but if they become serious rivals to the UFC they will end up with the same shareholders.

Those same shareholders will be the puppet masters of the MMA game.

Right now there is no such a thing as an "UFC Killer".

ACA is more Russia focused than international.
GFL is a joke.
PFL is making a lot of bad moves on the chess board.

One is profitable in Thailand, but not in Asia. They are very good at raising investors and they are keeping doing it without any problems.
View attachment 1085173
No-one will save us from greed.

If an organization ever came to rival the UFC, it will end up like it. Is ONE an example for treating it's fighter better than the UFC ? Not really. The promotion of values, ethics, honor, respect, it's all a marketing bullshit.

Nothing matter, I'm not complaining or anything. No-one will be able to draw conclusion without being on the inside, it's a very misty world, like the british are saying, "follow the money".

Signing with fight pass isn't a mistake if you want to run a medium sized promotion. It gets eyes on your promotion and offers a guaranteed income stream.

Promotions like LFA, Cage Warriors, CFFC, Fury, Eternal, Battlefield etc have chugged along for years staying in business on there.
 
imo Japan is the most likely place considering their history of great organizations Rings, Pancrase, Pride, Shooto etc, this potential new org will begin offering more incentives better pay, more prestige, attract more world wide fighters, tournaments with the best in the world this org would present itself more like the Olympics than cage fighting,
That’s all in the past. Rings and Pride are dead and buried. Pancrase and Shooto are small hall promotions that nobody outside of hardcore fans in Japan care about. Try to talk about them on here, in the worldwide forums, and crickets. I’ve tried.

The kakoutogi boom was over two decades ago. The most famous mma fighter in Japan today is more known for promoting 1 minute fights between regular joes on his YouTube channel than he is for his own fights.
a lot of the UFC success has been convincing the fan base that the absolute best are in the UFC which isn't true Sakikabara exposed this years back,
Again, living in the past. Does the UFC have all the best fighters? No. Do they have the majority of them under one umbrella? Yes.
Another reasoning this one very important is the fighters themselves have gotten fed up with UFC business practices and left, Ngannou and many others and really there is more than enough talent to be found outside of the U.S this has been proven time and time again,
Yeah, fighters leave, they find someone willing to them the fighters more than that promotion can realistically afford, and then a few years later that promotion goes under. This has been proven time and time again.
another poster here made a great point about orgs starting as nationally supported this is so important so as to not rely on investors, that is key and then attract foreign fighters.
KSw, Oktagon, RIZIN. They’re realistic about what they can do.
The sad thing is that Rizin had great scouting, amazing rule-set, GP's and put on an epic show all at the same time, I think the pandemic threw a monkey wrench in their plans because after that everything changed despite what people are saying about the president not wanting to go the route of being number 1 that's what I think.
Yeah, the previous model was unsustainable, so they adapted. They’re making more money now than they were pre-pandemic.
It's not defeatist. Promotions go under when they try to get over ambitious and get in large amounts of debt. I can see this happening with both PFL and ONE who are in enormous losses.

Promotions like RIZIN, KSW and Oktagon are stable, they exist in regions where the UFC doesn't go that often, they do good live gates, they're profitable and they can pay their fighters well.
Bingo. When ninety cents of every dollar spent on mma goes to the UFC, trying to be a direct competitor is suicidal.
 
It's not defeatist. Promotions go under when they try to get over ambitious and get in large amounts of debt. I can see this happening with both PFL and ONE who are in enormous losses.

Promotions like RIZIN, KSW and Oktagon are stable, they exist in regions where the UFC doesn't go that often, they do good live gates, they're profitable and they can pay their fighters well.
You're also describing the UFC until TUF
 
The only way UFC doesn't have control over the market is if it implodes, and even then I can't think of what it would take. Don't even think Dana being a client of Epstein would make UFC fans turn on them and look elsewhere

Doesn't help that the two biggest "rivals", ONE is barely a MMA promotion anymore and PFL shoots itself in the foot at every chance. For example one event from December till May, and we have barely any information about what is even happening beyond the tournament starting in May out of a sound stage in Orlando
 
No
The only way UFC doesn't have control over the market is if it implodes, and even then I can't think of what it would take. Don't even think Dana being a client of Epstein would make UFC fans turn on them and look elsewhere

Doesn't help that the two biggest "rivals", ONE is barely a MMA promotion anymore and PFL shoots itself in the foot at every chance. For example one event from December till May, and we have barely any information about what is even happening beyond the tournament starting in May out of a sound stage in Orlando
t only does UFC basically run on cruise control at this point, if it went down, it would likely take the sport with it.
 
I think most of us agree that UFC has gotten watered down, stale and is declining. What can another promotion do to rival or out do the UFC?

Pride was able to in part because UFC was in the dark ages but aside from that they got talent from Rings and did crossover with K1. Another thing that brought a ton of hype were their tournaments.

Strikeforce got a number of good TV deals and somehow secured tons of good talent too.

Bellator did ok for a while, especially with Rizin cross promo, but ultimately it sounds like they were going bankrupt.

I think One could potentially do it if they did more crossover matches with their muay Thai or grappling fighters with compelling mma fighters (ie. Mma high level striker v Thai fighter or grappling champ v high level mma grappler)

They're in Asia so they could probably do Pride style tournaments too.

For the American market IMO the only way to explode would be
1. Get good TV deals like Strikeforce/Elite XC got
2. They need some sort of reality show. This is really the only thing that saved the UFC.

A reality show that allows people to get to know fighters and get invested in their story is probably the most important part.

GFL could potentially do well using many of their old fighters as coaches of teams similar to TUF

What say you sherbros?

Would any of this work or is BowserJr in fantasy land?
I think an organization needs to bring in K1 Heavyweights, some of the heavier weight classes. To me I think most people and even people not in mma love seeing two big dudes slug it out.

Pride was great because they had all the mismatch "freakshow" fights and some of the most memorable fights in mma history. We just need another Pride like organization but it seems like that is now just a memory. Also back then it wasn't always about money, these guys truly loved to fight, they would fight 3 times in one night. Just my two cents, hello sherdog haven't posted here in a while. I am still here!
 
No

t only does UFC basically run on cruise control at this point, if it went down, it would likely take the sport with it.

This is false.

Nevertheless, I agree that KSW, Oktagon, and RIZIN have the right idea being successful regional promotions...although I wouldn't consider ACA a "regional promotion" considering that "Russia's borders never end". Pride was "regional" in the sense that it really only gave a fuck about Japanese domestic audience...but said domestic audience was the equivalent of what any major sports league in America gets as far as significance, and almost all of the most renowned fighters in the world were fighting in Pride back then.

In fact i'd go as far to say that labeling something a "regional promotion" is a meaningless title; as long as the promotion is successful, pays well and attracts many quality fighters, that is what matters and that is what makes in a top class mma promotion. Those should not be confused with feeder promotions like Cage Warriors and LFA.
 
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