What can be done to rival UFC?

[leto1776]

Nothing. THere is literally NOTHING that can be done.

/thread

 

[Flower2dPeople]

OF pr0n MMA.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Why does there need to be a rival to the UFC?

There has never been a rival to the UFC, so it has nothing to do with its "watering down" or whether it not entertaining or not. Pride and UFC were never "rivals".

People who think Pride, Strikeforce or whoever were "rivals" with the UFC are confusing their fandoms with what was reality. Pride and the UFC had different demographics and their existences meant almost nothing to one another. On Sherdog, people have a hard time understanding this and overvalue how little it meant to argue about this stuff on this message board 20 years ago.

Who wins in a fight between Pride and UFC fighters is as meaningless as comic book fans arguing who would win between Marvel and DC in a hypothetical fight. What makes the UFC the UFC has nothing to do with it having the best fighters.

 

[Thesnake101]

Make a deal with like 4 devils, 2 angels and 1 archangel at least imo.

 

[MRudi]

The problem isn't with UFC. The problem is with MMA.
The MMA is dying, like the most sports.
Sports are to boring, to demanding, to time investing to be able to prevail in era of tik tok.
The executives in FOOTBALL says, that football is bear market, and you expect more from MMA?

You can't win against HL reel

 

[HuskySamoan]

I think most of us agree that UFC has gotten watered down, stale and is declining. What can another promotion do to rival or out do the UFC?

Pride was able to in part because UFC was in the dark ages but aside from that they got talent from Rings and did crossover with K1. Another thing that brought a ton of hype were their tournaments.

Strikeforce got a number of good TV deals and somehow secured tons of good talent too.

Bellator did ok for a while, especially with Rizin cross promo, but ultimately it sounds like they were going bankrupt.

I think One could potentially do it if they did more crossover matches with their muay Thai or grappling fighters with compelling mma fighters (ie. Mma high level striker v Thai fighter or grappling champ v high level mma grappler)

They're in Asia so they could probably do Pride style tournaments too.

For the American market IMO the only way to explode would be
1. Get good TV deals like Strikeforce/Elite XC got
2. They need some sort of reality show. This is really the only thing that saved the UFC.

A reality show that allows people to get to know fighters and get invested in their story is probably the most important part.

GFL could potentially do well using many of their old fighters as coaches of teams similar to TUF

What say you sherbros?

Would any of this work or is BowserJr in fantasy land?

Here's what I'd do honestly.

First step is either getting backed by some billionaire or being said billionaire. You need to front a lot of money, accept tons of risk and realize it will be YEARS until you get this back. Like I said, a 5 and 10 year plan. It takes a while to establish yourself in regional markets (US, UK, Canada, Brazil, Latin America, Middle East, Oceania, East Asia and Russia) and to be able to get major sponsors, sponsors are a thing people overlook a lot but the UFC probably makes hundreds of millions a year just off the on cage sponsors and commercials and things commentary plug etc. Beyond that you need to land network deals and scale it upward, it takes time but you can fast track it. Like the UFC getting on Spike was huge then Fox, then ESPN and now probably Netflix. Wild.

Step 1. Purchase the PFL or become a majority owner. Then go through a culling and cultivation prospect. Filter through every division, cut fighters that serve no purpose, keep prospects with good potential, keep top talent of course and keep marketable types like your MVPs and whatnot.

Step 2. Get really good at scouting and acquiring top prospects, the UFC is already bad at this, so in doing this you can create A TALENT POOL in 5-10 years through diligence that rivals the UFC.

Step 3. Run off a lower profit margin or even a loss for a certain a period of time...at first your company won't have the views and deals to make the money you'd need to net a profit, so you need to look at this long term. But you have to be willing to match or beat the UFCs baseline type offers, which we've seen lead to guys like Cedric Doumbe, Baki Chamsoudinov, Losene Keita, AJ McKee, Sarvarjon Khamidov, Eduard Vartanyan, Paul Hughes, Salahdine Parnasse, Roberto Soldic and plenty others in recent years go elsewhere due to the UFC lowball. But also, you want to create an interest in UFC fighters wanting to test freek market at the end of their contracts due to you offering competitive pay, not just talent from the international scene.

Step 4. I think it's huge to STRONGLY AVOID signing washed talent from the UFC, like the PFL signing time to retire Pettis for 500k a fight is insane. You should definitely go after non washed UFC fighters aggressively though and create interest in them to see what you have to offer. Imagine signing a Dricus Du Plessis type fighter and then matching them up with your top guy and that said guy beating Dricus, it's totally possible and would lead to some real mass exposure and if Dricus wins it's not a loss...now you have the best MW that you took from the UFC, if he's happy and outspoken about it, it will lead to more potential signings. No 45 year old Fedors to 6 figure contracts for fucks sake.

Step 5. Is locking down the sponsors and streaming platform deals 100%


Here's the reality, fans are stupid, people think Strikeforce coming over to the UFC and winning MW and HW titles, creating title challengers at LHW, LW and WW too was because Strikeforce was special...it wasn't, there's more talent in MMA now than ever and guys are getting paid more internationally than ever too...there's still that quality in other promotions too, he UFC just no longer goes after it. Signing top UFC fighters and establishing high pay and lower profit margins to establish yourself and showcase this is huge. It would take a crazy bankroll but in a decade you could have something that rivals. You need to also have good commentators, market your fighters well and your promotion along with good broadcast quality.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

On the global market One can rival anyone but when it comes to the north amercian mainstream the UFC has no rival and if anything I see it getting worse. I could see the UFC developing their own minor league or B league that could essentially wipe out your Bellator, GFL, PFL's etc.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Relative to the lifespan of the sport, it is though. MLB is incomparable. Half of it's existence was segregated, different time and place in America and all sports.

We're in the corporate timeline. These are centibillion dollar businesses. MLB reached a billion dollars in one year of revenue in 1992, nearly 90 years into the sports history.

PRIDE was it's only real competition through Yakuza funding. They were able to pay out more cash and get better talent with their delving into K1's roster. There isn't an organization that has been able to do that to the UFC and been able to make its money back.

Affliction paid and tanked. Bellator couldn't pay and became the B-leagues and tanked. PFL is a financial blackhole, with Francis selling 10k PPVs. ONE is the only 'one' with a shot at hitting the eyes needed, but they're also seemingly circling the drain financially. KSW and ACA will continue fostering East European talent, and maybe years in the future some combined European league could be a competitor, but it's a long time and a lot of money away.

The UFC is the Wal-Mart of fighting. There isn't a real notion of supplanting it. Even something as controversial as

wouldn't make a dent in the business long term. Dana would retire disgraced to cry with his millions of dollars or face jailtime, while the corporate UFC would continue chugging along after handling the abysmal PR with the billions of dollars they can toss at it.

Did we forget that Vince McMahon recently had a terrible sex scandal? Didn't stop the TKO merger, didn't put a single dent in the WWE's business, and he's been the "face" of that company since before Dana was teaching boxercise classes.

I'm sure the UFC would say Dana was never their friend, but it was just an example. Those situations are way different, bc no one generally cares about the Vince situation, while there is a true public outcry for answers for the Epstein thing. Dana had zero to do with any of that, but, yes, there would be consequences.

 

[Lionheart7167]

A non-traditional promotion that builds stars organically, and has some semblance of how to promote them.

The only organizations that have ever truly done this on a grand scale has been PRIDE and Strikeforce.

 

[Captain Tenneal]

If you're frustrated with the product, just start watching other international organizations. That's what I did after last year. The UFC will only kill itself at this point, the ESPN+ deal insured it would turn into a overly saturated mess

 

[BowserJr]

Here's what I'd do honestly.

First step is either getting backed by some billionaire or being said billionaire. You need to front a lot of money, accept tons of risk and realize it will be YEARS until you get this back. Like I said, a 5 and 10 year plan. It takes a while to establish yourself in regional markets (US, UK, Canada, Brazil, Latin America, Middle East, Oceania, East Asia and Russia) and to be able to get major sponsors, sponsors are a thing people overlook a lot but the UFC probably makes hundreds of millions a year just off the on cage sponsors and commercials and things commentary plug etc. Beyond that you need to land network deals and scale it upward, it takes time but you can fast track it. Like the UFC getting on Spike was huge then Fox, then ESPN and now probably Netflix. Wild.

Step 1. Purchase the PFL or become a majority owner. Then go through a culling and cultivation prospect. Filter through every division, cut fighters that serve no purpose, keep prospects with good potential, keep top talent of course and keep marketable types like your MVPs and whatnot.

Step 2. Get really good at scouting and acquiring top prospects, the UFC is already bad at this, so in doing this you can create A TALENT POOL in 5-10 years through diligence that rivals the UFC.

Step 3. Run off a lower profit margin or even a loss for a certain a period of time...at first your company won't have the views and deals to make the money you'd need to net a profit, so you need to look at this long term. But you have to be willing to match or beat the UFCs baseline type offers, which we've seen lead to guys like Cedric Doumbe, Baki Chamsoudinov, Losene Keita, AJ McKee, Sarvarjon Khamidov, Eduard Vartanyan, Paul Hughes, Salahdine Parnasse, Roberto Soldic and plenty others in recent years go elsewhere due to the UFC lowball. But also, you want to create an interest in UFC fighters wanting to test freek market at the end of their contracts due to you offering competitive pay, not just talent from the international scene.

Step 4. I think it's huge to STRONGLY AVOID signing washed talent from the UFC, like the PFL signing time to retire Pettis for 500k a fight is insane. You should definitely go after non washed UFC fighters aggressively though and create interest in them to see what you have to offer. Imagine signing a Dricus Du Plessis type fighter and then matching them up with your top guy and that said guy beating Dricus, it's totally possible and would lead to some real mass exposure and if Dricus wins it's not a loss...now you have the best MW that you took from the UFC, if he's happy and outspoken about it, it will lead to more potential signings. No 45 year old Fedors to 6 figure contracts for fucks sake.

Step 5. Is locking down the sponsors and streaming platform deals 100%


Here's the reality, fans are stupid, people think Strikeforce coming over to the UFC and winning MW and HW titles, creating title challengers at LHW, LW and WW too was because Strikeforce was special...it wasn't, there's more talent in MMA now than ever and guys are getting paid more internationally than ever too...there's still that quality in other promotions too, he UFC just no longer goes after it. Signing top UFC fighters and establishing high pay and lower profit margins to establish yourself and showcase this is huge. It would take a crazy bankroll but in a decade you could have something that rivals. You need to also have good commentators, market your fighters well and your promotion along with good broadcast quality.

I think signing washed talent from UFC as long as they were exciting fan favorites could go a long way in building up new up and comers.

I also think GPs would help build up said fighters quickly with excitement.

Lastly Pride did one thing no one does which helped them build stars which was give top guys easy foghts in between tough fights. This has a number of benefits.
1. Keeps them active
2. Avoids ring rust and builds fighter confidence which is huge (especially after a loss)
3. Keeps stars from falling off hard and keeps their star power
4. Helps stack cards with big names
5. Everyone loves exciting finishes

I truly think both of these along with a story line show like a TUF or something similar which allows the audience to know the fighters would all create a huge success

And of course the things you mentioned like deep pockets with an expected negative ROI for a few years, streaming or TV deal etc

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I'm sure the UFC would say Dana was never their friend, but it was just an example. Those situations are way different, bc no one generally cares about the Vince situation, while there is a true public outcry for answers for the Epstein thing. Dana had zero to do with any of that, but, yes, there would be consequences.

I agree Epstein is an extreme example and it's definitely one of the more heinous and difficult PR issues anyone could ever deal with, but as you said, it would be swept under the rug with enough professional damage control.

The PFL had the best chance with Saudi money backing them, but it seems they just can't make any money back. The worst part is that every time one of these organizations fail, they just strengthen the UFC's negotiating power with fighters.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

I agree Epstein is an extreme example and it's definitely one of the more heinous and difficult PR issues anyone could ever deal with, but as you said, it would be swept under the rug with enough professional damage control.

The PFL had the best chance with Saudi money backing them, but it seems they just can't make any money back. The worst part is that every time one of these organizations fail, they just strengthen the UFC's negotiating power with fighters.

I think BKFC is the org that will continue to thrive, bc it is within the realm, but isn't an "imitation." BKFC really took the part of MMA that casuals want to see, then kinda turned back the clock and gave it a very early UFC feel, playing up the brutality, but was able to do it with some recognizable names.

There isn't a MMA league really trying to do anything internationally that I think will succeed. ONE won't, they'll eventually go back to being regional in SE Asia (and may get rid of MMA completely). PFL will eventually be sold, bc the owners don't care about MMA, they're just trying to ride the wave into a profit, and I doubt they will. They'll sell for a loss. GFL might as well close up shop, their plan to sign fighters in their 40s makes no sense without young talent to take their places when the veterans no doubt retire after a couple of fights.

I'm kinda well past ever expecting the UFC to have a competitor on the world scene. Strong regional promotions like KSW, Ares, RIZIN, ACA, they all have talent and good fights, and products I'd honestly rather support. If they got together and did a MMA World Cup, I'd be more interested in that than anything the UFC can offer.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

I think signing washed talent from UFC as long as they were exciting fan favorites could go a long way in building up new up and comers.

I also think GPs would help build up said fighters quickly with excitement.

Lastly Pride did one thing no one does which helped them build stars which was give top guys easy foghts in between tough fights. This has a number of benefits.
1. Keeps them active
2. Avoids ring rust and builds fighter confidence which is huge (especially after a loss)
3. Keeps stars from falling off hard and keeps their star power
4. Helps stack cards with big names
5. Everyone loves exciting finishes

I truly think both of these along with a story line show like a TUF or something similar which allows the audience to know the fighters would all create a huge success

And of course the things you mentioned like deep pockets with an expected negative ROI for a few years, streaming or TV deal etc

Come on man, This is just you listing what you want to see, not what would "rival the UFC".


I mean you're saying GPs would help when literally every major promotion outside the UFC runs GPs, some of them as a center part of their model and it never made any difference. Dream, Sengoku, ACA, Bellator, PFL, ONE, Strikeforce, Rizin, and Pride all have GPs. Makes zero difference.

The UFC itself has a GP despite popular belief and it's become one of their most boring and dated products (TUF).

You're focusing on stuff like fights or whatever when the real answer is boring stuff you're probably not interested in. A lack of a rival to the UFC has nothing to do with lack of talent, lack of exciting fighters, or lack of exciting fights.


Pride isn't the only promotion that has their champions fight cans to stay active. When promotions do that today, people on here complain that their matchmakers don't know what they're doing. This is still practiced widely in Asian promotions.

 

[BowserJr]

Dream, Sengoku, ACA, Bellator, PFL, ONE, Strikeforce, Rizin, and Pride all have GPs. Makes zero difference.

I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about. Most of those are defunct amd/or dodnt do GP and the ones that did GP either surpassed UFC (Pride) or vetted out great fighters like Jiri and Nemkov via GPs.

The UFC itself has a GP despite popular belief and it's become one of their most boring and dated products (TUF).

Really? When was the last time the UFC had fighters fight twice in 1 day?

You're focusing on stuff like fights or whatever when the real answer is boring stuff you're probably not interested in. A lack of a rival to the UFC has nothing to do with lack of talent, lack of exciting fighters, or lack of exciting fights.

We've talked about much more than that in this thread. At this point you just sound whiny.

Pride isn't the only promotion that has their champions fight cans to stay active. When promotions do that today, people on here complain that their matchmakers don't know what they're doing. This is still practiced widely in Asian promotions.

Theres a big difference in how promotions implement tune up fights. Your pretending it's all the same when it's not. And the ones that complain about it are typically American stat obsessed fans who care more for meaningless numbers, fake bad blood or boring ass oppoment specific strategies who think winning is the only thing that matters and don't care for performance or how the fights actually play out

 

[Ibm]

UFC has way too much juice and power behind them. Nothing can be done as they have too much money. They swollow everyone

 

[orca]

I think most of us agree that UFC has gotten watered down, stale and is declining. What can another promotion do to rival or out do the UFC?

Pride was able to in part because UFC was in the dark ages but aside from that they got talent from Rings and did crossover with K1. Another thing that brought a ton of hype were their tournaments.

Strikeforce got a number of good TV deals and somehow secured tons of good talent too.

Bellator did ok for a while, especially with Rizin cross promo, but ultimately it sounds like they were going bankrupt.

I think One could potentially do it if they did more crossover matches with their muay Thai or grappling fighters with compelling mma fighters (ie. Mma high level striker v Thai fighter or grappling champ v high level mma grappler)

They're in Asia so they could probably do Pride style tournaments too.

For the American market IMO the only way to explode would be
1. Get good TV deals like Strikeforce/Elite XC got
2. They need some sort of reality show. This is really the only thing that saved the UFC.

A reality show that allows people to get to know fighters and get invested in their story is probably the most important part.

GFL could potentially do well using many of their old fighters as coaches of teams similar to TUF

What say you sherbros?

Would any of this work or is BowserJr in fantasy land?

number 1
dont hire people like you who basicaly think nganou is worth more than 10 mil with 69kppvs

dont hire people that is emotionaly affected like you
decision making is very poor

 

[Royce Greasy]

I think most of us agree that UFC has gotten watered down, stale and is declining. What can another promotion do to rival or out do the UFC?

Pride was able to in part because UFC was in the dark ages but aside from that they got talent from Rings and did crossover with K1. Another thing that brought a ton of hype were their tournaments.

Strikeforce got a number of good TV deals and somehow secured tons of good talent too.

Bellator did ok for a while, especially with Rizin cross promo, but ultimately it sounds like they were going bankrupt.

I think One could potentially do it if they did more crossover matches with their muay Thai or grappling fighters with compelling mma fighters (ie. Mma high level striker v Thai fighter or grappling champ v high level mma grappler)

They're in Asia so they could probably do Pride style tournaments too.

For the American market IMO the only way to explode would be
1. Get good TV deals like Strikeforce/Elite XC got
2. They need some sort of reality show. This is really the only thing that saved the UFC.

A reality show that allows people to get to know fighters and get invested in their story is probably the most important part.

GFL could potentially do well using many of their old fighters as coaches of teams similar to TUF

What say you sherbros?

Would any of this work or is BowserJr in fantasy land?

The most important thing that can be done is people not be total sheep and buy into their cheap marketing and become obsessive over a brand, also I don't buy the argument that Pride was better because UFC was in the dark ages back then UFC had good fighters Pride was simply superior for many reasons, better rule set, more money, tournaments, yellow cards which resulted in more action, better scoring system, more international talent and better pay.


It's the fans that are the problem they are UFC fans not mma fans, there was a mention about an upcoming Rizin event where people were saying that the main event I believe will determine who goes to UFC that's shameful for Rizin so are they nothing more than a feeder league for UFC. Rizin for example in 2015 basically all the way up to the pandemic for the most part were using the old Pride formula and they produced at least 2 champs in Prochazka and Nemkov, then for some reason they begin catering exclusively to anyone under 170lbs and rotate the same fighters every other event, this again is most likely due to the fans this time in Japan wanting gimmicky BS instead of a serious promotion sad stuff.


As far as UFC I barely watch their events anymore because to me it's not what it was originally intended to be now it's a form of entertainment, an example and something that is very fishy to me is how TF do you fighters at what is considered the upper echelon of mma with no ncaa experience or a blue belt level in BJJ able to defeat other fighters with higher level grappling skills and credentials, I know why it's because the boss and UFC as a whole has basically purged the roster of grapplers and even when there is a BB level BJJ guy they abandon their skills to stand and bang, this is on purpose I've noticed this blue belt level guys beating BB level guys that's really messed up. I know from experience that a BB hell even a brown can completely own a blue belt level guy effortlessly and I'm supposed to believe that these carbon copy MT/boxer with blue belts are able to beat high level grapplers ya right. This is just a UFC phenomenon because in other organizations they have champs that are wrestling based still, I remember in Bellator they had Amasov and Storley for a period of time, not in UFC though and the only wrestler I know of at HW is Blaydes, the UFC has become a league full of MT and boxers with low level grappling skills.

 

[STAY GOLD]

I'm starting to doubt you know what you're talking about. Most of those are defunct amd/or dodnt do GP and the ones that did GP either surpassed UFC (Pride) or vetted out great fighters like Jiri and Nemkov via GPs.

3 of the ones he mentioned are still active (ACA, PFL and ONE) and 2 still do GPs and tournaments (ACA and PFL) and both of those have plenty of good fighters. You can even make a case that ACA has the best MW and PFL has the best WW in the world and who both won their respective division GPs recently.

 

[Ara tech]

The UFC is the guaranteed number one for the next twenty years, not the guaranteed winner of the whole century.