War Room Lounge v72: Nope

[Andy Capp]

How do you feel knowing your taxes go into the pockets of serious criminal gangbangers who are on welfare while they profit enormously tax free off crack, heroin and cocaine?

I feel that shitty people are shitty, and that there are so many more shitty people getting rich at the expense of poor people that it's a far bigger concern to me and it should be a far bigger concern to anyone. I also feel that full decriminalization of drugs would address your concern far more effectively than punishing poor people with onerous restrictions on social programs.

How do you feel?

 

[JDragon]

I feel that shitty people are shitty, and that there are so many more shitty people getting rich at the expense of poor people that it's a far bigger concern to me and it should be a far bigger concern to anyone. I also feel that full decriminalization of drugs would address your concern far more effectively than punishing poor people with onerous restrictions on social programs.

How do you feel?

It's actually surprising that the learnings from the prohibition era never were applied to other drugs.

 

[Andy Capp]

Let me put it like this, we're just building a house (brick and mortar), and as usual in these cases, this is stretching our capabilities, so right now, I oppose any tax increase and will vote against parties that tell me they want to (effectively) increase my taxes.

Generally speaking, I am glad we have a high tax level because it surely helps with infrastructure and social cohesion. And Trump is eroding the financial foundation of the US with his short-term strategy. (Though the US will still be better off in the next crisis as there still is leeway for the central bank as opposed to the ECB.)

I am in favor of taxing wealth, and I am also in favor of increasing taxes on very high incomes (say, above 300k a year). Ideally I would spend more on infrastructure, education, military (mainly due to equipment problems), etc. and less on social issues (currently 45% of the German federal budget goes there).

But my main concern is ensuring I can make ends meet (given our situation, I am in the top 10% of earners, so I don't want to complain), and maintaining social stability (because I am actually quite satisfied and don't want to lose what we have).

Well, again, you're in a particular situation where a small change in circumstances could cause great upheaval in your life. If this were a few years on from when it is completed, I would like to think your tolerance for such small changes would be much greater. I just have a hard time giving a fuck if some rich asshole has to put off trading in his Audi for the new model for another year because he's paying a bit more in tax.

 

[Sketch]

I feel that shitty people are shitty, and that there are so many more shitty people getting rich at the expense of poor people that it's a far bigger concern to me and it should be a far bigger concern to anyone. I also feel that full decriminalization of drugs would address your concern far more effectively than punishing poor people with onerous restrictions on social programs.

How do you feel?

I guess I make the case because I see it first hand, so it resonates more with me. The rich assholes are people we don't see. I think our system is hugely flawed though in terms of handing out welfare for example. It's highly abused. One thing about our higher taxes that doesn't bother me, is our healthcare. I don't mind paying more in tax to make sure we all have healthcare, regardless of race, economic standing etc.

I've always said though, I wish we could all personally choose where our tax money goes. We should have a ballot during elections or whatever where you could choose what you want your tax dollars going to. Let the people decide. Do you support more healthcare? Vote all your money into that. Do you support welfare? Put all your money into that? Do you support both? G0 50/50 and so forth.

 

[JDragon]

I've always said though, I wish we could all personally choose where our tax money goes. We should have a ballot during elections or whatever where you could choose what you want your tax dollars going to. Let the people decide. Do you support more healthcare? Vote all your money into that. Do you support welfare? Put all your money into that? Do you support both? G0 50/50 and so forth.

I sympathize with that idea in general, but obviously, it would have to be introduced in a way that ensures no immediate disruption happens.

See my thread:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/thought-experiment-democratic-tax-allocation.3318469/

 

[Sketch]

I sympathize with that idea in general, but obviously, it would have to be introduced in a way that ensures no immediate disruption happens.

See my thread:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/thought-experiment-democratic-tax-allocation.3318469/

This is actually quite interesting and well thought out. I like it.

I agree, my idea is a pipe dream up front, yours is sustainable. We have to keep our current programs funded, but slowly, we could allow people to choose where at least a portion of the money goes. Neat.

 

[Fawlty]

Fawlty is hilarious. Top 5 Sherdog comedian.

Why don't you lib safespacers ever tag me when u insult me?

 

[JDragon]

Why don't you lib safespacers ever tag me when u insult me?

*spacesavers.

 

[Sketch]

 

[Ruprecht]

It's actually surprising that the learnings from the prohibition era never were applied to other drugs.

The strange thing locally is that for Gen Y, Gen X and Baby Boomers (from 1960 to 2000) there was a massive liberalisation of drug policy.
Then those that grew up with those liberal policies became parents and suddenly decided, "not for my kids!" and reversed that trend (and of course demographically the overall population aged).

 

[Andy Capp]

I guess I make the case because I see it first hand, so it resonates more with me. The rich assholes are people we don't see. I think our system is hugely flawed though in terms of handing out welfare for example. It's highly abused. One thing about our higher taxes that doesn't bother me, is our healthcare. I don't mind paying more in tax to make sure we all have healthcare, regardless of race, economic standing etc.

I've always said though, I wish we could all personally choose where our tax money goes. We should have a ballot during elections or whatever where you could choose what you want your tax dollars going to. Let the people decide. Do you support more healthcare? Vote all your money into that. Do you support welfare? Put all your money into that? Do you support both? G0 50/50 and so forth.

I invite you to post data to support the assertion that welfare is highly abused. And then I would like to see how much money we're talking about and some evidence that it comes anywhere close to what corrupt business people cost the economy. Then perhaps, my feeling that shitty rich people are a much bigger problem than shitty poor people for society in general, and middle income Canadians in particular, might change. Take your best shot if you dare.

By the way, who are the real Americans?

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

 

[Sketch]

I invite you to post data to support the assertion that welfare is highly abused. And then I would like to see how much money we're talking about and some evidence that it comes anywhere close to what corrupt business people cost the economy. Then perhaps, my feeling that shitty rich people are a much bigger problem than shitty poor people for society in general, and middle income Canadians in particular, might change. Take your best shot if you dare.

By the way, who are the real Americans?

Get a grip man. Back to square one I see. I even agreed with you, that my own personal biases based on those around me clouded my judgement because we don't see the rich business types etc.

 

[Andy Capp]

It would be interesting to see the overlap among people who still think Boris and Trump are great and think Trudeau is the worst ever.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Oof, I should have figured that, it would have been quite out of character for you to make such a basic error.

I didn't get the reference though because I'm not ehtheist. I did actually drop you a clue, mildly surprised you didn't catch it because you're good at that type of detective work. Come to think of it though this account isn't exactly my pride and joy so I'd just as soon the connection not be made. I used to be a half decent poster lol.

Oh, Final Rehab. Derp.

 

[Sketch]

It would be interesting to see the overlap among people who still think Boris and Trump are great and think Trudeau is the worst ever.

Trudeau is not the worst ever, since he is an actor and not a politician. He can't be included in political rankings.

 

[Andy Capp]

Get a grip man. Back to square one I see. I even agreed with you, that my own personal biases based on those around me clouded my judgement because we don't see the rich business types etc.

Nonsense. This is a perfectly good square to be on. You said you agree that it's easier to focus on the scapegoat of poor people "getting shit for nothing" instead of rich people's criminal activities and I take no issue with that. We're all prone to some version of that at one time or another. It's your follow up assertion, completely independent of the foregoing, that welfare is highly abused, that I challenged you to support.

In other words, you made the claim "welfare is highly abused" irrespective of what else you said, and I think you're wrong so I'd like to see you try to back it up in order to assess whether I need to modify my position or leave you to do likewise.

 

[HereticBD]

Over here it's beer with around 2.4% alc/vol, which no-one actually drinks.
Always seemed strange to me that light beers were popular in the US.

What was really strange, was the push for non-alcoholic beer about a year or so ago. It seemed like you couldn't turn the TV on without seeing an ad for some brand's piss water.

I mean, let's be real here. Beer...not the most delicious beverage in the world. Without the alcohol, there is no point. It's like the most disgusting soft drink ever made. I honestly can't see any scenario where I would drink non-alcoholic beer over any non-alcoholic drink. I would choose an "Orbitz" over a non-alcoholic beer.

 

[Sketch]

Nonsense. This is a perfectly good square to be on. You said you agree that it's easier to focus on the scapegoat of poor people "getting shit for nothing" instead of rich people's criminal activities and I take no issue with that. We're all prone to some version of that at one time or another. It's your follow up assertion, completely independent of the foregoing, that welfare is highly abused, that I challenged you to support.

In other words, you made the claim "welfare is highly abused" irrespective of what else you said, and I think you're wrong so I'd like to see you try to back it up in order to assess whether I need to modify my position or leave you to do likewise.

Ok. Welfare was highly abused in the neighbourhoods I grew up in. And worse yet, it was used to buy guns and drugs indiscriminately, which ultimately destroyed and ravished entire neighbourhoods. No there is no hard data for any of this because it would be impossible to pursue especially with the whole ‘no snitching’ dialogue in certain areas.

 

[Ruprecht]

What was really strange, was the push for non-alcoholic beer about a year or so ago. It seemed like you couldn't turn the TV on without seeing an ad for some brand's piss water.

I mean, let's be real here. Beer...not the most delicious beverage in the world. Without the alcohol, there is no point. It's like the most disgusting soft drink ever made. I honestly can't see any scenario where I would drink non-alcoholic beer over any non-alcoholic drink. I would choose an "Orbitz" over a non-alcoholic beer.

I had to google, "Orbitz".
I don't know, I really like the taste of beer. Stout is like liquid Vegemite. Although I've tried Vegemite with both hot water and hot milk, and I didn't really like it.
Light beer definitely seems to lose more than Decaf Coffee though (although I don't drink that either).