Opinion War Room Government Shutdown over/under predictions

[Stoic1]

The disgusting part of this are the TikTok / YouTube crash outs from the entitlement demographic complaining about "who gonna feed my kids??? I ain't got time to work! Im going to go loot walmart"

They seem oblivious of an alternative to government dependency.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

The Republican shutdown is still going?

Anything to not release them Epstein files eh.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Andy Capp]

Well aint that a cute metaphor!

...but here’s the problem -- turning millions of people into "cartoon villains" doesn’t make you enlightened -- it just means you’ve joined the "fan club" for your favorite flavor of bullshit. I can appreciate you love the taste, but it is most DEFINITELY bullshit. The immediate urge to call your "other half" the (R) that are yer fellow countrymen "scumfuckery" really shows the unwillingness to work for what is best for "the people" in the first place... so I guess congrats on that...

So, you want to have a good conversation here while repeatedly assigning positions to me that I never claimed nor represented. Riiiiiight.

"...turning millions of people into "cartoon villains" doesn’t make you enlightened...."

I did no such thing. My willingness or unwillingness to do anything is irrelevant. I'm not American, to start with, and I'm not a member of the government nor in any other position to work toward resolving the mess you lot have found yourselves in.

"...but here’s the problem -- turning millions of people into "cartoon villains" doesn’t make you enlightened -- it just means you’ve joined the "fan club" for your favorite flavor of bullshit. I can appreciate you love the taste, but it is most DEFINITELY bullshit."

The bullshit lies between the quotation those marks.

Further, it's not an immediate urge; it's plainly and simply how politics in a democracy works at a fundamental level. The minority party failing to exercise what small amount of power they have is failing not only their constituents but the entire nation, as I have already explained ITT. If the situation were reversed my position would be the same. Now, stop circling back to this trash. I'm tired of repeating myself. Instead of bringing the Dems back to the negotiating table, the GOP is playing chicken and hoping the Dems cave in. Trying to blackmail the minority opposition with a threat to the well-being of the American people is disgusting and shoud be decried by everyone.

Finally, it seems I need to reiterate (for the final time I expect) that my participation in this thread is limited to countering the claim that the Democrats are wholly or even partially responsible for the shutdown. I'm not here to discuss which "team" I'm supposedly on, nor which of two is worse overall or any of the rest of the strawmen you keep introducing to counter this basic point and move the goalposts.


Have a nice day.

 

[MetalMilitia]

So, you want to have a good conversation here while repeatedly assigning positions to me that I never claimed nor represented. Riiiiiight.

"...turning millions of people into "cartoon villains" doesn’t make you enlightened...."

I did no such thing. My willingness or unwillingness to do anything is irrelevant. I'm not American, to start with, and I'm not a member of the government no in any other position to work toward resolving the mess you lot have found yourselves in.

"...but here’s the problem -- turning millions of people into "cartoon villains" doesn’t make you enlightened -- it just means you’ve joined the "fan club" for your favorite flavor of bullshit. I can appreciate you love the taste, but it is most DEFINITELY bullshit."

The bullshit lies between the quotation those marks.

Further, it's not an immediate urge; it's plainly and simply how politics in a democracy works at a fundamental level. The minority party failing to exercise what small amount of power they have is failing not only their constituents but the entire nation, as I have already explained ITT. If the situation were reversed my position would be the same. Now, stop circling back to this trash. I'm tired of repeating myself. Instead of bringing the Dems back to the negotiating table, the GOP is playing chicken and hoping the Dems cave in. Trying to blackmail the minority opposition with a threat to the well-being of the American people is disgusting and shoud be decried by everyone.

Finally, it seems I need to reiterate (for the final time I expect) that my participation in this thread is limited to countering the claim that the Democrats are wholly or even partially responsible for the shutdown. I'm not here to discuss which "team" I'm supposedly on, nor which of two is worse overall or any of the rest of the strawmen you keep introducing to counter this basic point and move the goalposts.


Have a nice day.

I appreciate the time taken to give an actual reply -- which is fuckin' rare around here...

... spent a lot of energy proving you’re above it all. I’m not moving goalposts -- just pointing out the circus. -- I think we got some common ground in our view of the overall "shits show" that is American politics.

... At least we can MOSTLY agree the whole things a rigged game -- politicians playing chicken while the rest of us are tied to the bumper.... So yeah -- I think we’ve both spotted the same turd floating in a different punch bowl....

Enjoy ya sunday, sir! (Unless yer a weekend worker... heh)

 

[avenue94]

No, I mean look at politicians in general, and those in office right now in particular.

There's just too much hate and I see it in this sub forum too.

This is just lazy, there have been actual attempts to pass policy and make the country better for Americans by Democrats. For the GOP, can you name the last serious initiative they had to improve the country outside of tax cuts that won't pay for themselves?

And guess when hate and digging in your heels got really popular in government? It was after Obama won, when the GOP fully committed to grievance policies and no for the sake of no.

I totally forgot that the dems had the presidency with Obama, control of the house and a 60 seat filibuster proof Senate.

Why didn't they deliver a health care system that actually worked for the people?

Furthermore, they could have solved many problems with that power. My guy Obama let me down. I was hoping for change, but it never happened.

Edit: And what happened after the dems passed Obamacare? The Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional. In an unprecedented move, Supreme Court Justice Roberts "fixed" it for them.

Democrats had 57 seats in the Senate in 08, is 57 the same as 60? That also didn't last long.

You got what you got with the ACA because Obama was a moderate, not the radical leftist the GOP liked to pretend. The ACA was the result of what could be passed through Congress. What health care reforms were you hoping for that you didn't get?

 

[avenue94]

Ah, was just clarifying -- but last I checked the fail total was 54-46 with Rand Paul ditchin' the GOP and Fetterman + 2 others swappin' over? I got respect for Fetterman -- he genuinely really actually cares for his base -- either that or he has that unmistakable stink of a political "survival act"... one or the other...

... pretty funny to watch his own party throw 'em under the bus for not simply towing party lines -- then again, the (D) really do seem to enjoy eating their own -- even more so than the (R)

Anyways -- (just my opinion) You don’t "buy" or "peel" votes anymore -- you rent them simply for "optics". Toss in something symbolic (lets hit all the fuckin' greatest hits!)

If the GOOP wants 6-8 Democraps -- They gotta make it look like a handshake and feel like a chokehold -- toss in back pay (bribe) -- a few shiny state projects (optics) -- dangle in some veteran affairs funding (exploit the vets) slap out a press release about “bipartisan courage” (bullshit + save face) -- everyone gets a photo-op -- nobody gets a conscience.

That number -- I mean maybe it could be done.

The truth? This fuckin' shutdown ends when both parties finally run out of new ways to screw the same people separately. Then they’ll call it "unity" -- and likely bill the taxpayer for the clean up...

If Fetterman cared for his based, he wouldn't be hemorrhaging staffers like he has. Dude is just on his own ridiculous side quest at this point.

And no, if the GOP wants to get Democrat votes they just need to extend some or most of the ACA premiums that the public want supported. You're tap dancing around what the dispute is over.

 

[MetalMilitia]

If Fetterman cared for his based, he wouldn't be hemorrhaging staffers like he has. Dude is just on his own ridiculous side quest at this point.

And no, if the GOP wants to get Democrat votes they just need to extend some or most of the ACA premiums that the public want supported. You're tap dancing around what the dispute is over.

Fair point on the ACA premiums -- yeah, that’s one of the hostage… (err...) "bargaining chips" to hold over people waiting for resolution -- I didn't think I had to mention the obvious on that -- I ain't "tap dancing around" it ....

... the ACA isn't really a matter of policy debate anymore -- it’s political "currency" -- They fuckin' trade it around like poker chips at a casino built on lobby money + taxpayer blood. One side wants to look compassionate (D) -- the other wants to look frugal (R) -- and both want to look busy enough to justify their (taxpayer) paycheck... The ACA is "new" moral hostage -- what's it going to be next week?

...and the F-word...?

...Fetterman? -- Yeah -- maybe dudes on a side quest -- but at least it’s his own damn quest. There are many in congress that couldn’t find individuality if it came with a teleprompter -- applause sign -- and fuckin' matching flag pin that told them to do so... I love it when either party throws their own into oncoming traffic though -- sure is fun to watch! Then again -- you could just be a fan of Katherine Clark -- you know -- the one who went out of her way to suggest the "people" were just "leverage" in the first place...

They’ll reopen the government when the price of staying closed gets higher than their leverage. Until then -- cue the optics -- the fuckin' talking points -- and the grandstanding! Job well done! Now ship the bill off to the tax payers.... Maybe this week... we get the real "trick or treat"...

 

[avenue94]

Fair point on the ACA premiums -- yeah, that’s one of the hostage… (err...) "bargaining chips" to hold over people waiting for resolution -- I didn't think I had to mention the obvious on that -- I ain't "tap dancing around" it ....

... the ACA isn't really a matter of policy debate anymore -- it’s political "currency" -- They fuckin' trade it around like poker chips at a casino built on lobby money + taxpayer blood. One side wants to look compassionate (D) -- the other wants to look frugal (R) -- and both want to look busy enough to justify their (taxpayer) paycheck... The ACA is "new" moral hostage -- what's it going to be next week?

...and the F-word...?

...Fetterman? -- Yeah -- maybe dudes on a side quest -- but at least it’s his own damn quest. There are many in congress that couldn’t find individuality if it came with a teleprompter -- applause sign -- and fuckin' matching flag pin that told them to do so... I love it when either party throws their own into oncoming traffic though -- sure is fun to watch! Then again -- you could just be a fan of Katherine Clark -- you know -- the one who went out of her way to suggest the "people" were just "leverage" in the first place...”

They’ll reopen the government when the price of staying closed gets higher than their leverage. Until then -- cue the optics -- the fuckin' talking points -- and the grandstanding! Job well done! Now ship the bill off to the tax payers.... Maybe this week... we get the real "trick or treat"...

It's pretty much the main one, other than pocket recissions and ensuring that Congress maintains its constitutional power of the purse.

How are Democrats holding the ACA hostage? It's literally the law and what they spent tremendous political capital building and enacting.

 

[Stoic1]

Looks like a great opportunity to clean the slate.

No more Omnibus bullshit Continuing Resolution, drive-us-into-bankruptcy pass the buck garbage.

Start passing single bills.

 

[MetalMilitia]

It's pretty much the main one, other than pocket recissions and ensuring that Congress maintains its constitutional power of the purse.

How are Democrats holding the ACA hostage? It's literally the law and what they spent tremendous political capital building and enacting.

Don’t know how much more we can kick this around. My only real point from the start (in regards to the shutdown, as a point of contention) was getting a resolution fast so regular people could get the help they need. Sarcasm and cynicism aside... The system’s bloated -- full of freeloaders -- needs a cleanup... The rest? -- Just pure fuckin' frustration that every year they recycle the same political bullshit theater and hold their own citizens hostage...

....ya didn't exactly respond to the part with Katherine Clark literally saying the quiet part out loud about "leverage"... Nothing new.... politicians admitting to playing chess with citizens’ livelihoods every which way they can.... Not my favorite game in the world....

That said -- you’re right. The GOP has been trying to gut the shit outta the ACA for over a decade -- This isn’t negotiation or hostage taking anymore -- they've simply leveled up to "trench warfare!" -- Both sides look ridiculous -- one acts like oversight equals cruelty -- the other pretends “reform” means “burn it down”...

...And yeah -- ending fraud isn’t cruel -- it’s maintenance. Every government program leaks cash -- but Congress would rather weaponize that truth than fix it. (D) get to play "healthcare heroes" -- (R) get to play "fiscal saviors" -- and the rest of us keep paying for the fuckin' rerun.

I guess I'd rephrase it then -- at this point -- nobody’s holding the ACA hostage... they're just using it as a prop in America’s longest running political circus -- where outrage polls better than results...

...Appreciate ya takin' the time to actually put some thought into a back and forth. Methinks I'd buy ya a beer if we had the convo in person...

 

[N13]

 

[Misfit23]

Fuck both parties, tbh.

 

[N13]

This is just lazy, there have been actual attempts to pass policy and make the country better for Americans by Democrats. For the GOP, can you name the last serious initiative they had to improve the country outside of tax cuts that won't pay for themselves?

And guess when hate and digging in your heels got really popular in government? It was after Obama won, when the GOP fully committed to grievance policies and no for the sake of no.

Democrats had 57 seats in the Senate in 08, is 57 the same as 60? That also didn't last long.

You got what you got with the ACA because Obama was a moderate, not the radical leftist the GOP liked to pretend. The ACA was the result of what could be passed through Congress. What health care reforms were you hoping for that you didn't.....

Having technical issues.

Then in April, 2009, Republican Senator Arlen Specter became a Democrat. Kennedy was still at home, dying, and Al Franken was still not seated. Score in April, 2009....Democratic votes 58.

In May, 2009, Robert Byrd got sick and did not return to the Senate until July 21, 2009. Even though Franken was finally seated July 7, 2009 and Byrd returned on July 21.....Democrats still only had 59 votes in the Senate because Kennedy never returned, dying on August 25, 2009.

Kennedy's empty seat was temporarily filled by Paul Kirk but not until September 24, 2009.

The swearing in of Kirk finally gave Democrats 60 votes (at least potentially) in the Senate. "Total control" of Congress by Democrats lasted all of 4 months. From September 24, 2009 through February 4, 2010...at which point Scott Brown, a Republican, was sworn in to replace Kennedy's Massachusetts seat.

The truth....then....is this: Democrats had "total control" of the House of Representatives from 2009-2011, 2 full years. Democrats, and therefore, Obama, had "total control" of the Senate from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010. A grand total of 4 months.

 

[heloder]

@N13

Ctrl + Shift + V pastes without the formatting.

 

[avenue94]

Having technical issues.

Then in April, 2009, Republican Senator Arlen Specter became a Democrat. Kennedy was still at home, dying, and Al Franken was still not seated. Score in April, 2009....Democratic votes 58.

In May, 2009, Robert Byrd got sick and did not return to the Senate until July 21, 2009. Even though Franken was finally seated July 7, 2009 and Byrd returned on July 21.....Democrats still only had 59 votes in the Senate because Kennedy never returned, dying on August 25, 2009.

Kennedy's empty seat was temporarily filled by Paul Kirk but not until September 24, 2009.

The swearing in of Kirk finally gave Democrats 60 votes (at least potentially) in the Senate. "Total control" of Congress by Democrats lasted all of 4 months. From September 24, 2009 through February 4, 2010...at which point Scott Brown, a Republican, was sworn in to replace Kennedy's Massachusetts seat.

The truth....then....is this: Democrats had "total control" of the House of Representatives from 2009-2011, 2 full years. Democrats, and therefore, Obama, had "total control" of the Senate from September 24, 2009 until February 4, 2010. A grand total of 4 months.

And the ACA was the result of what Obama and the party could get moderates to support.

You're avoiding the question: You claim you want health care reforms, what are they? Otherwise you're just bitching about the ACA without offering any indication of what you don't like about it.

 

[N13]

And the ACA was the result of what Obama and the party could get moderates to support.

You're avoiding the question: You claim you want health care reforms, what are they? Otherwise you're just bitching about the ACA without offering any indication of what you don't like about it.

I've stated my position on healthcare in here many times: Medicare for all, but you have to pay for it.

Just ask @Crazy Source

F the insurance corporations and Obamacare. Extend the subsidies for 6 months to have time to do it.

 

[avenue94]

I've stated my position on healthcare in here many times: Medicare for all, but you have to pay for it.

Just ask @Crazy Source

And which party is likely to get you closer to there, whether it's longterm or in the shorterm (ending the shutdown)?

 

[N13]

And which party is likely to get you closer to there, whether it's longterm or in the shorterm (ending the shutdown)?

Neither. I'm an independent.

When was the last time the government did something that benefited the people?

The democrats control the shutdown. They can end it any time they want. My crystal ball says the dems are going to have some bad weeks ahead.

 

[avenue94]

Neither. I'm an independent.

When was the last time the government did something that benefited the people?

That's not true. If you were to poll each party's bases or elected members, which would show higher rates of support for Medicare for All?

And the Inflation Reduction Act was quite helpful for Americans, as was a lot of what the government did during Covid to stimulate the economy.

 

[N13]

That's not true. If you were to poll each party's bases or elected members, which would show higher rates of support for Medicare for All?

And the Inflation Reduction Act was quite helpful for Americans, as was a lot of what the government did during Covid to stimulate the economy.

I'm sorry mang. You are opening a big can of worms there and I'm not interested in doing that. Maybe another time.