Wanderlei Silva gets lifetime ban

[FallonFoxGOAT]

Agree, full-heartedly.

He is retired anyways.

He should not have ran from a drug test.

 

[Black Gi]

IMO if he didn't sign the contract to fight, then they have no basis to fine him.

The understanding is that Wand intended to fight and that he simply hadn't got round to signing the bout agreement yet.

It seems they are going on the intent.

 

[Grappleboxing]

I have no interest in arguing with someone who honestly cannot tell the difference between these two situations.



See Fig. 2

Bingo. If you clearly can't tell the difference, it is just sad. I am not going to argue with a brick wall.

Good day.

 

[m52nickerson]

This refers to the period where the fighter was licenced. If the licence expires, they still have jurisdiction to discipline him for anything that happened during the period he was licenced.

Being licenced once, doesn't give them lifetime jurisdiction over you for anything you do for the rest of your life.

It says that where? You don't get to add things that are not there.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

Right. So the NSAC has complete jurisdiction over anyone and everyone who trains to fight and has shown intention to fight anywhere in the world. Why then, did they bother to bring several pages worth of contracts for Wanderlei to sign before taking the test? Surely with their omnipresent jurisdiction that wouldn't be necessary. And why did they not punish Vitor when he failed his drug test? He had a "potential intention" to fight in Nevada as well, doesn't that instantly grant them unlimited power?

Vitor actually had a bout agreement and had signed.

Wanderlei apparently had yet to sign the bout agreement. That's the difference.

 

[Joe]

Because he posted a very public "fuck you" to the UFC and retired.

thats because the ufc told him he was fucked first. many fighters have told the ufc fuck you while they were working there and even came back after they did that. wanderlei is upset his career is over and the ufc cant do anything about it.

 

[Ogg]

your two points above the part in bold are 100% on the money.

But the Overeem and Wand cases are not the same and people need to stop saying they are.

Overeem ran (UFC 146) but came back immediately when informed he would be in serious trouble if he didn't. He took the test and failed.

Wand ran and when told to come back, fled to brazil.

What do you mean he came back and failed?

He ducked a drug test, then still was able to fight Brock Lesnar.... The test he failed was one he took 4 months after he had already fought Brock... So that's basically 2 failed tests.

 

[aker2703]

Overeem ran for 146? I thought he ran to Holland to be with his mother before 141?

at the pre-fight presser for 146 (the same thing wand did for 175) he was told before the press conference that all fighters would be tested. After the presser finished he ran. The NSAC director (at the time) Keith Kizer phoned him and told him to return or he would be in serious trouble. He returned and failed the test (that is why Mir fought JDS). he failed and was given a 9 month suspension.

the 141 situation is different ( although in my opinion he did run, but claimed he left before being notified to visit his sick mother in Holland). if you want me to run down that situation i can...but it is not apples to apples to wand's case.

 

[countswagula]

Okay, if the commission did not have the power to fine Silva, and Silva is not going to seek a lisence in the state anymore, why would he be paying his lawyer to fight the decision in court?

Second, since Silva had had a license in Navada before he falls under this provision of the commission rules....

"NAC 467.089  Effect of expiration of license on jurisdiction of Commission. (NRS 467.030)  The expiration of a license does not deprive the Commission of jurisdiction to:

1.  Proceed with an investigation of the licensee;

2.  Proceed with an action or disciplinary proceeding against the licensee;

3.  Render a decision to suspend or revoke the license; or

4.  Otherwise discipline the licensee."

http://leg.state.nv.us/NAC/NAC-467.html

These are all points I can appreciate, after all there are a variety of reasons why the commission might be compelled to take disciplinary action against a fighter after the fight itself has ocurred. What I'm saying is though, they have limited resources to pursue those disciplinary actions if a fighter is no longer licensed and doesn't intend to apply in the future. When Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was fined nearly $1 million for failing a drug test due to Marijuana, the NSAC wasn't able to take any action whatsoever to force him to comply with the fine outside of simply denying him a future license.

 

[aker2703]

What do you mean he came back and failed?

He ducked a drug test, then still was able to fight Brock Lesnar.... The test he failed was one he took 4 months after he had already fought Brock... So that's basically 2 failed tests.

see post #330.

 

[countswagula]

Vitor actually had a bout agreement and had signed.

Wanderlei apparently had yet to sign the bout agreement. That's the difference.

That just makes the whole situation even more egregious though.

 

[SerrabyTKO]

Right. So the NSAC has complete jurisdiction over anyone and everyone who trains to fight and has shown intention to fight anywhere in the world.

Nope. Nevada. Wand Participated in a national press conference announcing that he was scheduled to fight in Nevada. You keep on trying to move that goalpost, but it's dug in deep bro.

Why then, did they bother to bring several pages worth of contracts for Wanderlei to sign before taking the test? Surely with their omnipresent jurisdiction that wouldn't be necessary. And why did they not punish Vitor when he failed his drug test? He had a "potential intention" to fight in Nevada as well, doesn't that instantly grant them unlimited power?

Standard legal contracts. To insure that they can prove he took it, was of sound mind, etc.

They did punish Vitor. They punished him less severely because he cooperated with them, instead of fleeing the country. This incentivizes future drug test failers to do the same.

 

[7th]

NSAC said that in many instances fighters don't even officially have their license until a few days before the fight. It wouldn't be feasible if they didn't have jurisdiction because fighters would always refuse tests up until a few days before the fight when they receive their license.

well then they have an ongoing flaw in their system. Just because a loophole exists for everybody, doesn't mean it's not still a loophole. They should have no jurisdiction over a non licensed fighter.

 

[Black Gi]

Also speaking of the Vitor situation it's ludicrous how they didn't issue him any punishment whatsoever(outside of requiring a hearing) because he wasn't licensed at the time of the test...

Not really, Vitor will be required to be available for random testing and will have to foot the bill.

 

[countswagula]

I have no interest in arguing with someone who honestly cannot tell the difference between these two situations.

The two saituations constitute a pretty logical analogy.

 

[giusti825]

They were only able to test Vitor because Vitor allowed them to, and signed a contract to that effect. Even then, they did not punish him because at that time they did not believe they had the jurisdiction to do so since he wasn't licensed. Wand didn't even sign the testing contracts, so they would have even less jurisdiction regarding to this situation.


The regulation defines contestant, but I don't see where it says they have automatic jurisdiction over anyone who fits that definition. "Any person who engages in unarmed combat for remuneration" is an incredibly broad definition.

The regulation also specifically states that it can only punish licensees. It also states that if a nonlicensee commits a violation that would warrant action, they can take action if and when he applies for a license. Thats how they got vitor. Vitor applied for a license after the failed drug test. Wand never applied, so the point is moot. They have no jurisdiction over him.

What would stop them from punishing anybody??

This is a wake-up call for the NSAC to fix their rules and then enforce them. They shouldn't break their own rules to punish any fighter. If the rules suck, fix them. They are going to try and legislate from the bench as opposed to correcting the clear loopholes in their own regulations. Its ass-backwards.

 

[Boom_Ba_Ye]

It says that where? You don't get to add things that are not there.

So basically, what you are saying is that once you are licenced once in Nevada, they have jurisdiction over you for the rest of your life, outside of the period you were licenced for even if you never fight there again?
Do you agree?

 

[m52nickerson]

These are all points I can appreciate, after all there are a variety of reasons why the commission might be compelled to take disciplinary action against a fighter after the fight itself has ocurred. What I'm saying is though, they have limited resources to pursue those disciplinary actions if a fighter is no longer licensed and doesn't intend to apply in the future. When Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was fined nearly $1 million for failing a drug test due to Marijuana, the NSAC wasn't able to take any action whatsoever to force him to comply with the fine outside of simply denying him a future license.

If Silva does not own any property in Navada I doubt the commission would take him to court to collect the fine. Otherwise they would just place liens on Silva's property.

It will be interesting to see if Silva wins in his apeal.

 

[countswagula]

What would stop them from punishing anybody??

According to folks ITT if it sort of looks like someone might maybe have an intention to fight sometime in the future, the NSAC is all set.

 

[m52nickerson]

So basically, what you are saying is that once you are licenced once in Nevada, they have jurisdiction over you for the rest of your life, even if you never fight there again?

Yes! That is the way I read the statutes and regulation.