Views on steroids

[muaythaibadman]

a guy from my mma team uses roids and openly admits it

in his last fight he went roid crazy on his opponent

i dont think its fair to fight in mma if u are using roids

 

[rickdog]

Jose Canseco, Bill Romanowski, John Romano, and a HOST of other Pro level athletes know more about Anabolics than most of the posters in here combined.

It's hilarious how many people who have never been a Pro athlete deem to know whether a Pro Athlete knows what he is doing or not.

And it's staggering that this thread generally reflects the lack of education or even WILLINGNESS to BE educated in today's soceity regarding athletic performance. Most of you thus far are the kinds of people who fuel the fires of Governments concerned more with whether or not athletes are "cheating" as opposed to policies that they know anything about.

The ratio is there's been 2 posters so far who seem to know anything about Anabolics, and the rest of you are halfway spewing the demonization crap you've always heard but trying to be PC about it so as not to offend each other.

And before anyone asks I do not use steroids. But that's because my sport and the class I wish to compete in doesn't necessitate it at all. Oh yeah, and because it's both banned (slightly understandable but still dumb) and illegal (completely in-appropriate).

Excellent Post!!!!!

 

[rickdog]

a guy from my mma team uses roids and openly admits it

in his last fight he went roid crazy on his opponent

i dont think its fair to fight in mma if u are using roids

HAHAHAHAHA, He went roid crazy.......YOu don't think it is fair, waaaaa waaaaaa. I agree, if it is an untested federation then anything goes.

On another note, steroids are more of a political issue than a health issue. Let your fat senators try to make a name for themselves by demonizing steroids while they sit back in their chairs all fat and happy, finishing up there third cup of coffee and second pack of cigs. Lets be realistic, if the govt. was really concerned about our health, first off, they would educate themselves on the subject and then they would realize how many other things that our legal are actually alot more unhealthy than "roids". It's bogus and demonized and I agree with King Kabuki that alot of people are spewing back what they have heard from T.V or a biased article without much real knowledge of the issue.

 

[KOU In3]

Stick to what you know man, really. Which is a lot of half-information about things.

I do believe I am somewhat offended by that remark. Obviously you have me pegged as being deluded and misinformed. And there's really nothing I can say to dissuade you from that perspective. So, rather than try to convince you otherwise, I'll let you continue on in that notion. Perhaps though, I've considered most of the same information you have and arrived at a different conclusion?

Most Boxers who fight under Cruiserweight don't do full weight regimens and there are plenty reasons for that, a standard practice in many many years of Boxing.

And there were many years where boxers were told never to lift weights at all as it would make them slow and damage their boxing ability. Doesn't make it correct or even good training.

nd it's hilarious to see you straddling the fence. In one post saying all of the things that demonize steroids and proclaiming them to be true, and in the next instance arguing their viability to me. Pick a perspective and stay there. Life tends to be a lot easier that way.

If you think I am 'straddling the fence' you are missing the point of my posts. I maintain my own personal opinion. But will argue the logic behind the post. In your case, I found the logic behind the claim to be lacking. So I addressed it. If someone reaches a similair conclusion to mine but for all the wrong reasons, I prefer to go back and address the thought process.

My perspective didn't change. What you might have picked up from it is a decently informed view of some of the pro's and cons. Mentioning the pros and not having a completely polarized view doesn't make me a fence sitter. It means I've actually factored both sides of the arguement into my opinion rather than simply putting the blinders on and addressing points that support the negative aspect.

 

[Sinister]

If you think I am 'straddling the fence' you are missing the point of my posts. I maintain my own personal opinion. But will argue the logic behind the post. In your case, I found the logic behind the claim to be lacking. So I addressed it. If someone reaches a similair conclusion to mine but for all the wrong reasons, I prefer to go back and address the thought process.

My perspective didn't change. What you might have picked up from it is a decently informed view of some of the pro's and cons. Mentioning the pros and not having a completely polarized view doesn't make me a fence sitter. It means I've actually factored both sides of the arguement into my opinion rather than simply putting the blinders on and addressing points that support the negative aspect.

I didn't get that at all from your posts, simply because you mainly used the same non-credible arguments on the con-side that most people do these days. Like I said, my personal view (which is a bit more cloudly on the subject of steroids in Pro Sports), where this sort of argument is concerned is that if someone wants to formulate an opinion on the subject they need to consider and review all sides of the coin. Based on certain references you used, it seems you were merely regurgitating the kind of rhetoric that most people do to support the steroids = evil claim.

Perhaps you are more introspective and considerate about this subject, and I admit I don't know you from a can of beans. But if you're going to play Devil's Advocate here at-least make it a bit more clear.

In terms of this:

And there were many years where boxers were told never to lift weights at all as it would make them slow and damage their boxing ability. Doesn't make it correct or even good training.

All I can say is I'll take the words and tips of former World Champions of the Sport over most other people's any day of the week. Because they've been where I want to go, and a lot of people who detract from certain teachings of many such men, have not.

 

[Sinister]

Bye the way for future reference, and because almost no one simply ASKS before spouting arguments. My own personal view on this is that Anabolics shouldn't BE necessary in Pro Sports this day and age to begin with. There's enough pressure and sacrifice needed to entertain on the level these men do, the added social pressures of being Superhuman throughout the tenure of their existences is altogether unnecessary. I mournfully await the day when we begin genetically cloning cyborg-like humans who all fit the exact same mold in every sport, and all sense of talent and individuality is gone. But if anyone claims to BE a genetically engineered cyborg, they get banned. lol

 

[threelions]

As someone who doesnt have a clue about steroids this is an intresting thread. I'd say they were cheating simply because they are against the rules(of tested competition).

What is the solution though? Test every athlete at every event or at a random date during the build up or some type of legalization so that they are regulated and so made safe(or as safe as they can be?) and competitions made a level playing field.

 

[groo]

Using steroids to get big and ripped to get hotter chix...will turn into...I can't get hotter chix without getting juiced...will turn into...I can't get any chix without getting juiced...will turn into...I can't leave the house unless i'm juiced...will turn into...lifelong juice and insecurity...so you choose your happiness so you design your sorrow.

You forgot penile-implant.

 

[slayer36]

has anyone seen the HBO REAL SPORTS special on steroids? you are missing out...

 

[AxeGrinder]

dont use them, never have, never will, and I dont respect people who do...

 

[Sinister]

dont use them, never have, never will, and I dont respect people who do...

MMA and Boxing fan for life eh? I am willing to wager you've respected more than one Anabolics user without even knowing it.

 

[rickdog]

MMA and Boxing fan for life eh? I am willing to wager you've respected more than one Anabolics user without even knowing it.

Exactly. I don't get the mentality of saying you'd never respect anyone who took steroids. What if they make smoking cigaretts illegal, will you not respect anyone who has ever smoked? I know most people here aren't at the level nor ever will be, of needing something for that extra little edge, but if you ever where, i bet you would have a whole new song and dance. KK is right on. Alot more people then you think, in pro sports, are taking roids. In most cases they are developing newer and undetectable roids and are able to stay one step ahead. I guess for alot of people on here, ignorance is bliss.

 

[AxeGrinder]

MMA and Boxing fan for life eh? I am willing to wager you've respected more than one Anabolics user without even knowing it.

you could wager all you want, and you'd probably be wrong, and if it turned out my most favorite fighter was on roids, he would lose my respect...

 

[AxeGrinder]

Exactly. I don't get the mentality of saying you'd never respect anyone who took steroids. What if they make smoking cigaretts illegal, will you not respect anyone who has ever smoked? I know most people here aren't at the level nor ever will be, of needing something for that extra little edge, but if you ever where, i bet you would have a whole new song and dance. KK is right on. Alot more people then you think, in pro sports, are taking roids. In most cases they are developing newer and undetectable roids and are able to stay one step ahead. I guess for alot of people on here, ignorance is bliss.

I dont really get your comparision between cigaretts, and steroids, obviously smoking is not going to improve your game at all, make it worse, yeah....but people who take steroids, to me that just says that your not working hard enough to be at the level you need to be, or your simply insecure to think that it will actually help your game while not making any adjustments to your training, and training ethic...

 

[Sinister]

but people who take steroids, to me that just says that your not working hard enough to be at the level you need to be, or your simply insecure to think that it will actually help your game while not making any adjustments to your training, and training ethic...

You really have little-to-no idea what you're talking about at all.

That's not necessarily your fault though.

If you honestly think the bulk of Pro Athletes who use Anabolics do so for any of the reasons you stated in this post (none of which are even typical of Professional Athletes to garner a contract as a Pro in the first-place), then you really should do some reading before speaking on the subject.

Now, I understand the reasoning behind such blind conviction against steroids. Somewhere along the lines someone told you they're "cheating" and you believed them. Which bye the way, they're no more cheating than someone being able to afford other expensive supplements like GAKIC or say, very high-end Creatines versus other athletes not being able to, nor is testosterone treatment in males who qualify any different than Estrogen-replacement therapy for menopausal women. And you directly associate cheating with wrongness, so therefore, steroids equate to wrongness. However, there is a slight flaw where this is concerned that goes both ways:

Pro Athletes choose to be Pro Athletes. Fighters choose to be fighters. I choose to Box. I may come across a guy who chooses to use Anabolics. If he kicks my ass what do I do? Do I cry foul? Do I bitch and moan about it? The answer is no, because I knew going into this that there are going to be guys there who use Anabolics. I got myself into it. Same with anyone who competes on that level.

Now I hate to shatter an idealistic mentality of yours but the general concensus is correct. MOST Pro Athletes at some point in their career use Anabolics of one form or another. And you're judgement about respecting them, as well as all those terms you associated with Anabolic use really aren't appropriate. Why? Because regardless of what they use these are some of the hardest working people IN existence right now. These are people who put their bodies and livelihood on the line to entertain you. You want them to run faster, jump higher, hit harder? Well then I suggest you be willing to turn a blind eye to what it takes for them to do so on a continually progressing basis. With the advancement of Sports, technology, Sports medicine, and supplementation, this is something that's just going to become common-place. Oh wait, but it already is. There is only the formality that people don't want to hear or know about it...so the laws and rules require society bury their heads in the sand and hide behind a general moral shield that is hardly applicable.

But wait a sec. Oh yes. Like I said earlier the flaw to this goes both ways. The Athletes CHOOSE this life. They could give it all up and jockey a register somewhere, or do telemarketing.

Bottom-line to all this? Don't Judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. If you've ever been in a situation where you lost out because someone else "cheated" then you should have gone through the psychological phase (granted you didn't go into strict denial) of asking yourself how you got into that position in the first-place. Then come to terms with that no one put a gun to your head. YOU made the choice. So there's no real need to cry about it afterwards. Needless to say if you find out that an athlete you like used Anabolics, I'd hope you'd be human enough to remember how you felt when everyone around you judged you for whatever reason before you rendered such harsh judgement as to not respect that athlete. But this is mostly fluff anyway, I seriously doubt anyone in here would even have the balls to look at Rafael Palmiero in-person and NOT thank him or praise him for being a Pro Baseball player, yeah, I could really see any of you looking him square in the eye and going "you're a lying sack of shit, you're a cheat, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself." Even if it SHOULD be said.

Talking big shit is wonderful.

 

[Sinister]

I dont really get your comparision between cigaretts, and steroids, obviously smoking is not going to improve your game at all, make it worse, yeah....but people who take steroids, to me that just says that your not working hard enough to be at the level you need to be, or your simply insecure to think that it will actually help your game while not making any adjustments to your training, and training ethic...

Oh and one more thing, to point out just how hypocritical people can be on this issue let me break down something you said here for a moment.

You said:

or your simply insecure to think that it will actually help your game while not making any adjustments to your training, and training ethic...

And then just before that you say:

I dont really get your comparision between cigaretts, and steroids, obviously smoking is not going to improve your game

...insinuating that steroids are different from cigs because they improve your game.

So uhh...which is it? Is it wrong to take them because they improve your game and cheating is wrong? Or is it wrong to take them because they actually don't improve your game and it's just insecurity?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[daigolicious]

hi, i'm new here, and i feel i'd have some good input into this thread from personal experience

first of all, i've been in and around gyms for a long time, and have lots of experience with the juice. i've been on, been off, known guys who use regularly, i know guys who have lots of regrets because of taking steroids.

in moderation, and if done properly, steroids can have little to no bad side effects, the problem is it's VERY hard to do steroids in moderation. like everything else, your body adapts to the steroids (even with proper cycling) you start with 20mgs dianabol and see awesome gains, then things slow down, then 20 turns to 40 and 40 turns to 80, this is where things get dangerous. also, once you are off the juice, you WILL deflate, lol i know guys who can lose 15 lbs in 2 weeks of an off cycle, your strength and stamina gains are NOT permanant. so unless you wanna be cycling for the next 10 years of your career (which is not recomended) all of it is useless. also, there are alot of mental sideeffects when it comes to steroids, the absolute greatest things steroids do for you is AMAZING recovery, you can go hit the weights for 3 hours, and the next day do the same muscle groups without feeling any DOMS, you can go out partying, do some coke, get drunk as a bastard, and the next day you are ready to go and train w/o skipping a beat, you get a superman mentality, you do more drugs, you get more hammered you take more steroids, it's terrible. i've been through all of this firsthand before. you get caught up and at that point, there is nothing good happening to your body.

also, most people who want to take steroids don't need them, when i hear 'i'm 165 lbs and i want to put on some weight easy i want to juice' i laugh, that person taking steroids is doing nothing, to get huge and juice you need to still go to the gym, and still work very hard. if you can't gain 20 lbs in the gym legit, you're a pussy, and your gains on the juice will be minimal aswell. what these people need are a little bit more hardcore.

as far as the sideeffects of long term steroids, all you have to do is look at all the pro-wrestlers (wwf) guys dying at 45, that's retarded.

and there are alot of grey areas of juice too, i heard someone mention ephedra, i would personally recomend that to anyone wanting to cut some weight, and that's a banned substance (i wouldn't consider it juice tho), also you can buy those quasi steroids, like tribulus our whatever, those are banned substances, and a great way to burn all your money.

but, if you are going to take steroids keep in mind:
-do LOTS of research about the drug u want to take
-do LOTS of research on how to take it, (cycling and doseage is VERY important to a safer steroids use) and sometimes you'll need to take other drugs to cycle off etc.
-be very careful where you are getting your steroids from, bad drugs will mess you up forever, even if you take them once.
-talk to your doctor, i'm serious, talk to someone in sports medicine, they know about all the abuse going around in competition these days, everyones body is different, everyone reacts differently, TALK TO A DOCTOR. I'M SO SERIOUS. (i've been on the same cycles and nothing bad has happened to me as guys the same size/age as me who would have nasty side effects (gyno etc.))
-www.elite-fitness.com this is an excellent steroid resource.

and steroids are wrong in pro. competition because they are against the rules. plain and simple. if i was going to eye gauge and no one else was allowed to eye-gauge it would be unfair. so either everyone should be able to take the juice, or no one. and the rules say no one.

oh and...
wayne gretzgy
michael jordan
muhammad ali
... the greatest ever were not juicers, so i'm not sure why anyone would think they need the juice to be great.

i do not juice at all anymore, and feel better about my health and am FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR stronger mentally than before. and i know for a fact i'm a far better athlete now then when i was ever on the juice.

 

[graedy]

Every men and women has a hormonsystem as unique as his/her fingerprint. So you will never know what dosage you can tolerate.
I would say that steroids shoulndt be illegal. The government shouldnt protect the people from themselves. And in competition? Have tested and untested comps in any sport. Maybe the tested comps will be overshadowed by the untested ones like the raw lifting by the equipped lifting. But well, so be it. Like Kabuki said, good suppelments also enhance your performance. Its just a matter where you draw the line.

 

[daigolicious]

good supplements enhance your performance, but even with the best legal supps, they arn't 1/10th as powerful as some serious steroids. and most good supplements, are supplementing with things that are already naturally occuring (read: creatine etc.). now you could use the argument that test and GH are naturally occuring in your body. But GH is awfully expensive and terribly hard on your body (look at Ronnie Coleman's GH belly) and if you want to take some test, be aware that it's VERY dangerous. 'nor is testosterone treatment in males who qualify' males who qualify, those who would qualify (few) would be ones with very low test levels, and the treatments would bring them to average level (unlike people injecting steroids)

oh and btw, garik is expensive, and very useless, and creatine is very cheap, and high-end creatines and regular creatines are the same thing, with a flashier bottle.

most people like to draw the line at the rules, for instance creatine is a legal substance in olympic drug testing, and HGH would be against the rules, that's where you would draw the line.

and when people say, oh but you've been admiring these users for so long, that's not a valid arguement, if i love my dad all my life, then find out he raped my sister and was cheating on my mother, i would not be a fan of his anymore (does that make me a hypocrit?). these pro atheletes who lie about taking steroids are lying because, a)they are ashamed b)it's illegal in the country c)it's illegal in the sport.

oh and btw, steroids are illegal in sports, because then athletes would get way out of control, if it didn't matter, you could sup w/ steroid cocktails, human growth hormone injections, testosterone spot injections, white blood cell supplementation, some synth adrenaline etc... the sport would be a freak circus and a race to see who can die the youngest.

 

[Sinister]

as far as the sideeffects of long term steroids, all you have to do is look at all the pro-wrestlers (wwf) guys dying at 45, that's retarded.

No death, not even Pro Wrestler deaths, have been directly linked to steroid use. There were always larger contributing factors like recreational drug use, and as far as the WWE goes (that's what it's called now), the grueling touring schedule also has a lot to do with it. Most Wrestlers have more severe addictions to painkillers that are more detrimental to their health as opposed to Anabolics. While Anabolics certainly didn't help certain guys (again like Eddie Guerrero), they didn't cause the Death of. The deterioration to the heart particularly in his case was from the years of cocaine and alcohol use.

buy those quasi steroids, like tribulus our whatever, those are banned substances, and a great way to burn all your money.

Tribulus is an herb, and it's perfectly legal and not banned at all. I think you mean to refer to Androsteindione.

(look at Ronnie Coleman's GH belly)

Coleman's stomach is suspect moreso of Synthol than GH within the BB community.

and creatine is very cheap, and high-end creatines and regular creatines are the same thing, with a flashier bottle.

Not really.

these pro atheletes who lie about taking steroids are lying because, a)they are ashamed b)it's illegal in the country c)it's illegal in the sport.

Again, I love how people deem to know a Pro Athlete's mentality. For one thing steroids are not illegal in the Country. They are illegal WITHOUT A PERSCRIPTION. If you have a perscription they're fine, but they are banned from most Pro Sports.

As far as my argument about having been fans of the Athletes. First of all yes that is a valid argument because it's applicable. If it weren't applicable it wouldn't be valid. Secondly are you comparing Steroid use to the rape of a girl? That's WAY out of line. Let's put it moreso into perspective. You've been a fan of your Dad all your life because he had such a STRONG right arm. Strongest right arm you've ever seen. Then one day you found out that his right arm is robotic, cybernetic, and it's not really his muscular strength per se.

Even that's stretching it, but it's more appropriate a comparison than comparing Anabolic use to rape and incest. Because when put into THIS perspective the answer would change. Would you still be a fan of your Dad even if he had a robotic arm and people said he was "cheating" for his strength? Yes of course you would.