Views on steroids

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by thomas87, Jan 3, 2006.

  1. thomas87

    thomas87 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    358
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    In the Universe, in a galaxy, on a planet, on a co
    I read that MMA athletes have a relaxed view on steroids.


    So I'm wondering what my fellow sherdoggers think of steroids.

    Are you using it yourself, or do you think it's okay. Or do you hate it? Or something else?

    I myself couldn't care more about what others do with their bodies. But I myself? Hell no, I'm never using that shit. With that I'm not automatically saying that it's all bad effects. Most sideeffects, if not all can be worked with other medicaments. What worries me most is the fact that the heart, liver, lungs and digestive system are all muscles -- I figured(maybe wrongfully) that since steroids make muscles grow, the mentioned muscles will grow as well. No, I'm not taking my chances on steroids.

    So, what do you guys think of this?
     
  2. krellik

    krellik Gimli son of Cisco

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sweden (Kalmar)
    For an adult who has a few years of good hard training with a good diet, I have no personal problems with it. Just make sure that you research your shit and put up boundries for your self so it doesnt keep escalating. Furthermore I think you should keep from geting mentaly adicted from constantly making huge gains from it. If you go on it, you also want to be able to go of it.

    For me personally, I will never touch it.
     
  3. datadog

    datadog Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    I took ephedra a few years back after a coworker had good results with it. I experienced "ephedra rage", I'd get very upset at things that I knew logically were nothing. A good friend made a joke and in my mind I could see slamming my fist through the back of his skull. Thankfully I could also see how it was a simple joke, and fairly funny at that. Freaky shit...

    So if Ephedra has that effect on me I think I'll stear clear of Roids just to keep myself out of trouble. Oh yeah, and that they are illegal doesn't help. :)

    As far as others, I'm glad the UFC drug tests and I wish every MMA org would. I want to see people training in their MMA not the chemicaly enhanced winning over the skilled.

    Edited: Specified last paragraph was about MMA.
     
  4. Ian Coe

    Ian Coe Silver Belt Professional Fighter

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,529
    Likes Received:
    91
    Location:
    UK
    If someone has trainined hard and consistantly with progressive gains, plateaued out after having a clean diet, resarching the pros and cons of steroids AND tried everything under the sun training wise (ie he has a very good knowledge of training methods, protocals and how the body adapts to stimuli), then sure, let the guy dabble.

    But by that time you will be mid 30's-early 40's assuming you started lifting in your teens. Show me such a man and I will say sure, go for it.
    Until then your FAR from needing it and miles away from youe genetic limit, I don't care how much you whine otherwise.


    my 2 cents
     
  5. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    13,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    datadog, do you know what a placebo is?

    I plan on using steroids no earlier than my last year as a junior competitor (23yr's) and longer if I can hold out.

    I don't like steroids, nor do I think they're good, however my drive is such that I'll do what it takes to make it to the top of my sport. Unfortunately, whether you believe it or not, 99% of the good strength athletes are on the shit, plain and simple.
     
  6. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

    Joined:
    May 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,853
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Sippin on sunshine
    If you want to juice, that's your business. I'll probably be natural my whole life, but I don't hold it against somebody when they choose not to. The juicers I dislike fall into several categories:
    A) young kids. Anyone under 23 should not be on steroids unless prescribed by a doctor. I have a friend who was on test patches, and another who was on HGH in high school both for legitimate reasons, both with prescriptions from reputable physicians. Short of that, you're still developing, and fucking with your hormones before you're done is just asking for long term problems.
    B) people who jump in without learning how to progress naturally first. Now, I've said I'm natural and I don't dislike people over steroid use, but I can't justify in my mind making a shitty routine an shitty nutrition work by using steroids. Figure the basics out first, make them work, then supplement accordingly.
    C) Impatient people. the iron game is a waiting game, and unless you're competing an striving for elite level status, you should have years (5+) under your belt IMO before your first cycle. There's a lot to learn before you jump into a whole new world.
     
  7. fat_wilhelm

    fat_wilhelm Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,851
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    D
    Personally, I hate them and would never use them. To me, if you're using steroids and competing against someone who is not, it is cheating. I think the lifter/athlete who doesn't have aspirations to reach the top of whatever it is he's competing in and uses 'roids has some pretty skewed priorities.

    That said, I agree w/ what Carnal and a few others have said. The sad truth is that many people do use and if you want to advance your game past a certain level, you may just have to join the party if you're not [extremely] genetically gifted.

    Look at the Tour de France. Do you really think Lance doesn't dope or use EPO or whatever the latest and greatest drug for endurance athletes is? He's become an American hero of sorts, so I'm sure many people don't want to believe it, but think about what those guys do. The human body, alone, is not meant to do that. You can be sure that every one of those riders is looking for any chemical edge they can get and there's enough money in those teams to always stay one step ahead of the tests.

    I only use that example because the topic has been so largely debated, but it translates to other sports, as well. Who didn't enjoy watching McGuire and Sosa battle it out, then seeing Bonds smash the HR record shortly thereafter. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it, myself, but I also feel for the guy that doesn't want to subject his body to the risks, negative public sentiment, etc., and is stuck at more modest numbers, all the while wondering if he may have more natural talent than the monsters gaining all the accolades.
     
  8. Alon

    Alon Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    As a weightlifter we only have on federation, and it is drugtested, whether you are pro or anti-steroids if you're a weightlifter you MUST be clean, I don't care how many people are on stuff (when everyone tries to justify doping), ultimately those are the rules of the game.

    I don't have any problems with powerlifters or whoever else who compete in untested fed's being on stuff, but I just don't understand how you can justify winning something if you were on something in a tested fed, I would think that you'd always be questioning whether you could or couldn't have beated the other competitors clean, whether they are clean etc etc.

    In any case I'm not a career lifter, I don't really care how I place, I just want to improve on my own lifts under the conditions of the fed. If you do use then at least be open about it like a few people I've met.
     
  9. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2004
    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    asia
    Never liked the juice. However, I do respect those elite level lifters even if they use it. I find it stupid that many guys use it when they don't know exactly what it does and how it can damage your body in the long run
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,127
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    Location:
    Vegas
    Jose Canseco, Bill Romanowski, John Romano, and a HOST of other Pro level athletes know more about Anabolics than most of the posters in here combined.

    It's hilarious how many people who have never been a Pro athlete deem to know whether a Pro Athlete knows what he is doing or not.

    And it's staggering that this thread generally reflects the lack of education or even WILLINGNESS to BE educated in today's soceity regarding athletic performance. Most of you thus far are the kinds of people who fuel the fires of Governments concerned more with whether or not athletes are "cheating" as opposed to policies that they know anything about.

    The ratio is there's been 2 posters so far who seem to know anything about Anabolics, and the rest of you are halfway spewing the demonization crap you've always heard but trying to be PC about it so as not to offend each other.

    And before anyone asks I do not use steroids. But that's because my sport and the class I wish to compete in doesn't necessitate it at all. Oh yeah, and because it's both banned (slightly understandable but still dumb) and illegal (completely in-appropriate).
     
  11. krellik

    krellik Gimli son of Cisco

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sweden (Kalmar)
    Good point, but the question for me is, do you really have to be an expert on something to have an opinion about it? I know shit about heroine but I still take the right to think that it is shit and that people shouldnt use it.

    Its clear to me that if you dont thake utmost caution and really know what you are doing things can get quite fucked up. If you take any subject how many people are it that will take the time to really know what they are doing, usually not to many.
     
  12. datadog

    datadog Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio
    This isn't somehow going to degrade into me not wanting to show up at any grip competitions is it? :)

    I'm really really confused where this placebo comment is heading. Unless you are talking about someone popping out the original wizanator (ala Ontario Smith), but that's more tampering than a placebo.

    I'll edit my post above to clarify that I was talking about MMA athletes using steroids. It's a different world from strength competitions, where as you say, the vast majority of the top uses enhancements.

    On the MMA front the UFC tests everyone which should at least slow the influx of steroids into that organization. With everyone but heavywieghts trying to lose weight I'm not sure how any of them would take steroids anywise (one of the competitors failed the initial test but passed the secondary test last fall).
     
  13. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,127
    Likes Received:
    2,554
    Location:
    Vegas
    For the most-part. No. To answer your question. But Anabolics is a special-case because frankly there is not one shred of credible Medical evidence to suggest that any of the tactics people use to swerve opinions on it to the negative are true. And it's just a matter of that people like Gary Wadler and mass media know how to herd cattle to their side of the fence. I'm doing my best to be slightly harsh, yet not overly so, it just pains me when people can't see that they're clearly being duped.

    Does Lance Armstrong have any...ANY of the classic appearances juicers are supposed to have? No. And yet nowadays I see his name bantered about as if he's some raging roid-freak. JUST because some dipshit decided Lance was too good to be true and went about testing things both illegally and improperly. How is it that Jose Canseco can sit in front of Congress and tell the truth despite that everyone we KNEW would lie sat there and lied, and now he's looked at as this lying sack of shit cheater. Whereas Rafael Palmiero actually DID lie before Congress and the media is trying to paint him as this cooperative jewel of a person who did the right thing AFTER he got busted? They say they want to send a message to "the children"...what that telling the truth will get you black-balled by your friends and peers and lying will get you praise and riches? Wonderful.

    Open your eyes here guys. Understand that sometimes what you're being told really isn't true. Really isn't what you think it is. If you're going to formulate the opinion that Anabolics are not for you there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. But do yourself a favor, consider both sides of the fence, look at it from all angles...and base that decision on shit that makes sense. Not shit you heard people who know less than you say.
     
  14. slayer36

    slayer36 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    0
    i dont use steroids and dont give a fuck if some one else does.
    i might consider using steroids one day, just not yet.
    when people think you are on juice and you are not, it kind of motivates you to keep going natural.
    like when people ask me if i am on juice. it kind of feels good that i have put this hard work in and done it w/o anabloics.
    but my official stance is i dont do steriods, dont give a flying fuck if some one does, and might use them some day.
    PS- did anyone see the HBO special saying steroids for healthy men who workout actually are not bad for you? it might change the views of a lot of people.
     
  15. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2001
    Messages:
    13,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Alon, you don't honestly think Oly lifters are drug free do you?
     
  16. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

    Joined:
    May 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,853
    Likes Received:
    171
    Location:
    Sippin on sunshine
    Allow me to educate you at least a little bit on heroin.

    Heroine:
    [​IMG]
    here are two heroines:
    [​IMG]
    Hopefully soon to engage in some hot heroine lesbo action.

    now here's heroin (which you are no doubt refering too)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. KOU In3

    KOU In3 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    1
    To be brutally honest, I lose a lot of respect for those who use. And yes, I definately lose a lot of respect for their accomplishments.

    I understand why a lot of people chose to use. And I understand that a lot of it comes to simply trying to compete on a level playing field. And although I am not an expert on the subject I am reasonably well informed.

    A lot of the pro-steroid crowd likes to point to the 'no side effects if done correctly', health benefit, etc., etc. Ironicly when you really listen to these same people who talk about their zero side effects, you'll later find them talking about needing anti-estrogens, sexual problems, gyno surgeries, etc. Ask them if they get side effects and they'll say 'nope, none.' Then listen a week later when they talk about what they had to do to their injection site absess.

    Medically speaking, in almost any situation, with almost any drug, with great effect comes great side effects. Look at pain killers. Ibuprofen... pretty much harmless, and is a minor pain reliever. Now say you're really in pain. You take vicadin, morphine, or codeine. Better effect. Also much greater side effects. Look at stimulants. Caffeine... minor effect, minor side effect. Ephedra... greater stimulant, greater crash. Amphetamines... big effect... big side effect. The same logic applies to hormonal supplementation. From pre-cursors, to test. Better effect... bigger side effects.

    Oh, and KingKabuki, aren't you training to be a boxer or fighter of some sort? If you think steroids wouldn't improve your athletic performance and make you more competitive, you're the one who is uninformed.
     
  18. KOU In3

    KOU In3 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    1
    Having said that, I think hormone replacement for aging males is acceptable. By this I mean the 50+ crowd where the health benfits actually do tend to outweigh the risks. Not the B.S. "a doctor claims that I have subnormal test levels so proscribed me this patch even though I'm 25".

    Ironicly, studies have shown that 20 years ago, elites athletes were the primary users. These days, the biggest segment of users come from non-competitive, non-bodybuilding gym goers using for purely cosmetic reasons. How screwed up is that?
     
  19. krellik

    krellik Gimli son of Cisco

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,596
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Sweden (Kalmar)
    Lol thanks mod for keeping me straight. I wont bitch about english being my second language and all (hade v
     
  20. fat_wilhelm

    fat_wilhelm Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    5,851
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    D
    Kabuki -

    You mention the large number of people whose opinions are swayed by popular perception, government propoganda, etc. However, aren't there just as many people, especially young athletes, who are swayed equally towards the other side, where visions of bodybuilder proportions and massive strength, all from popping a few pills, are too enticing to pass up? (See thread: "Best Juice?") These people can be just as uneducated as the ones you speak of, only their decisions to "juice" based on the recommendations of some equally misguided buddy can, indeed, lead to bodily harm. The pro athletes are not the issue. They use under very unique circumstances. Unfortunately, a larger percentage of steroid users are grabbing a cycle of whatever it is that made so-and-so big and they're taking it. Users don't do their due diligence at any higher rate than the all-but-two people in this thread that you perceive as having no knowledge of anabolics.

    I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about steroids, other than the basics. I certainly can't tell you which ones do what, exactly. My opinions are not based on what the media wants me to believe. Simply put, I feel that my genetics are what they are and I'm willing to put in the work to maximize my potential w/o steroids. Of course, I'm nowhere near the level of a pro athlete, so I really can't say if my feelings would change if I were on the edge of success, trying to get over that hump. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't, though.

    Also, I'm not sure if your comments on Lance Armstrong were in response to my post or not, but I wanted to point out that I don't think very highly of the French jackasses that pulled the old samples either. I didn't mean to paint him as a 'roid freak if that's the way it seemed. I don't know if he's using something... my guess would be that they all are, but I really don't know. My point was moreso to say that I don't begrudge him if he is. I'm actually a pretty big fan and even moreso of Tyler Hamilton who, as we know, tested positive for doping in the last olympics.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.