Views on steroids

[Sinister]

Oh, and KingKabuki, aren't you training to be a boxer or fighter of some sort? If you think steroids wouldn't improve your athletic performance and make you more competitive, you're the one who is uninformed.

Ugh. Yes I am training to be a Boxer. And I think you mean to use mis-informed. But even that word would not apply because you obviously only skimmed my post and began typing up a witty reply to retort what you retained.

First of all this:

A lot of the pro-steroid crowd likes to point to the 'no side effects if done correctly', health benefit, etc., etc. Ironicly when you really listen to these same people who talk about their zero side effects, you'll later find them talking about needing anti-estrogens, sexual problems, gyno surgeries, etc. Ask them if they get side effects and they'll say 'nope, none.' Then listen a week later when they talk about what they had to do to their injection site absess.

Is laughable because of all the Pro athletes who currently use and have used Anabolics, according to this there would be an epidemic among them of little balls, bitch-tits, and abscesses. And there just isn't. Look at every single Pro Bodybuilder who didn't have a pre-existing Medical Condition, or a recreational drug-habit, or some other HUGELY contributing factor and understand that according to this kind of theory, they'd all be either dead or treating a laundry-list of those exact Medical Problems. And the bottom-line is they're simply not. The next move is usually for someone to go "HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY'RE NOT...THEY COULD BE AND COULD BE LYING ABOUT IT!?!?"...yeah, because EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. The only people who those medical ailments you spoke of specifically apply to is those who either abuse Anabolics, or combine them with things they're not supposed to be combined with. These kinds of people are the same ones who kill themselves with Ephedra, though it does happen, and it is grand-standed by the media...it is HARDLY the normal occurrence.

Secondly:

The reason I say you didn't read my entire post is becaus I said something specific as to why I don't use them myself. I'm of age and probably wouldn't have trouble getting perscriptions for certain recovery Anabolics like Deca. However, my recovery is fine, I'm not deficient in anything, and I also mentioned that the class in which I wish to compete within my Sport does not necessitate the use of Anabolics. What I'm getting at is that I'm actually competing in a lighter weight-class, one in which I'm not even entirely permitted to do a full-weight regimen because if I get too big I'll be out of that division. I have a different set of goals and Anabolics are not necessary to achieve them. Plus, Boxing is slightly different. Being bigger and stronger (which are the chief reasons people use Anabolics and rarely are they aware of their other benefits) is not everything in this Sport. You want an example? See Oscar De La Hoya versus Fernando Vargas. Vargas was roided out of his mind for that fight, and talent beat his ass all over the ring.

And lastly, you should look into exactly HOW Anabolics ended up being classed as a controlled-substance. Because the fascinating thing is it had not a whole lot to do with any "proven" dangers they posed to the people they were formulated for. It had more to do with public ignorance being at an all-time high, and a need for scandal. Odd how something can be classed with heroin and cocaine, when not one single credible Medical Study has linked it directly to any Deaths eh?

I don't profess to know everything about this, because I don't. But what I do like to do is consider all sides. Anyone who makes up their mind on an issue before they get all of the information is a fool, plain and simple.

 

[Sinister]

You mention the large number of people whose opinions are swayed by popular perception, government propoganda, etc. However, aren't there just as many people, especially young athletes, who are swayed equally towards the other side, where visions of bodybuilder proportions and massive strength, all from popping a few pills, are too enticing to pass up? (See thread: "Best Juice?") These people can be just as uneducated as the ones you speak of, only their decisions to "juice" based on the recommendations of some equally misguided buddy can, indeed, lead to bodily harm. The pro athletes are not the issue. They use under very unique circumstances. Unfortunately, a larger percentage of steroid users are grabbing a cycle of whatever it is that made so-and-so big and they're taking it. Users don't do their due diligence at any higher rate than the all-but-two people in this thread that you perceive as having no knowledge of anabolics.

Very good point, and good post.

I agree, and the mis-education on the "pro-steroid" side of the fence tends to be just as horrendous. For instance there's a kid who is MAYBE 20, and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on that, who keeps coming into my store asking about ways to boost Testosterone. Now I've spoken to him as much as I could and I'll go on record as to say he's going to end up doing roids in less than a year. THAT'S stupid. But taking out his stupidity on the entire population of Pro Sports is not going to solve a single thing. It only adds further confusion. And I for one am sick of seeing people and parents scapegoat athletes for not properly raising kids that aren't theirs. I'm also sick of the slight hypocrisy that fans want to see athletes continously run faster, jump higher, play further, but they don't want them to do what it takes to be so superhuman. You can't have it both ways. Either they're human and only capable of so much, or not.

 

[Noskill]

Are steroids dangerous? We don't really know and that's why they are, in the end, dangerous. What studies are there about them really? If there are no real extensive studies about the kind of doses that athletes use, it just amounts to shooting random stuff into your bloodstream.

There is hyperbole on both sides. Obviously if you shoot half a gallon of test everyday, you probably will not live very long. But some people make it sound as if doing roids is the equivalent of drinking a glass of cyanure.

But I can understand athletes who do it. Their life is about their sport, it is normal they are willing to take the risk to be the best. You only have one life...

IMO first you need to learn to lift and eat properly, then keep doing that for a few years, then, depending on what it is you're trying to accomplish, taking them MIGHT be allright.

EDIT: This post is not an apology for roids, I have never done them. I just happen to think that what makes a choice a good choice is always relative to what it is you want to achieve the most. For people who are willing to take a risk with their health because of their will to win, juicing might be called a good choice.

 

[KOU In3]

But even that word would not apply because you obviously only skimmed my post and began typing up a witty reply to retort what you retained.

I read your post in its entirety. On the rare occasion I respond to a post that I've only skimmed I normally mention it along with the part where I commenced skimming. For reference see this thread here:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showpost.php?p=7793470&postcount=35

Look at every single Pro Bodybuilder who didn't have a pre-existing Medical Condition, or a recreational drug-habit, or some other HUGELY contributing factor and understand that according to this kind of theory, they'd all be either dead or treating a laundry-list of those exact Medical Problems.

Mike Matarazo: Open heart surgery
Arnold Schwarzeggar: Open hear surgery
Florence Griffith Joyner: Heart attack (widely suspected of steroid use, no positive tests)
Flex Wheeler: Numerous health problems.
Dorian Yates: Numerous bicep tears (athletic trainers are taught to immediately suspect steroid use when confronted with a torn bicep)
Ronnie Coleman: Gynocomastis (1998 and 1999) surgically fixed
Johnnie Jackson: Gynocomastia

This is off the top of my head. A well researched list would go on for pages. Also note that a huge amount of athletes claim 'pre-existing conditions' when in fact none exist and no documentation of it is provided. James 'Lights Out' Toney being an example who claimed his nandrolone use was prescribed for a torn bicep (another steroid indicator).

However, my recovery is fine, I'm not deficient in anything, and I also mentioned that the class in which I wish to compete within my Sport does not necessitate the use of Anabolics. What I'm getting at is that I'm actually competing in a lighter weight-class, one in which I'm not even entirely permitted to do a full-weight regimen because if I get too big I'll be out of that division. I have a different set of goals and Anabolics are not necessary to achieve them. Plus, Boxing is slightly different. Being bigger and stronger (which are the chief reasons people use Anabolics and rarely are they aware of their other benefits) is not everything in this Sport. You want an example? See Oscar De La Hoya versus Fernando Vargas. Vargas was roided out of his mind for that fight, and talent beat his ass all over the ring.

I'm not sure where to start with this one. On the De La Hoya v. Vargas: There are plenty of instances of skill triumphing over roids. But the question is not who won but rather did Vargas net a performance edge by using? Obviously he thought he did or he wouldn't have been using.

Plenty of weightclasses athletes use. You mention your recovery is 'fine'. On 'roids, it would be increased. Regardless of it being 'fine', you would recover faster, more fully, and be able to train harder and longer as a result. You don't think that is an edge? Boxing is not really different. There are plenty of users in the sport. Sprinting isn't about being bigger or stronger either and the sport is similairly riddled with steroid use.

A lighter weight class should preclude you from a 'full-weight regimen' either. Your diet will contain your weight not your lifting.

 

[Madmick]

I'm gonna cycle Test and D-Bol at some point, here.

I'm 25, I was planning on waiting until I was 28, but now I don't think I'm gonna make it that far.

 

[GNPU]

King Kabuki- You are pretty much spot on in all your posts on this topic. I think it would burst the bubble of many on this forum as to how many of their favorite MMA fighters and other pro athletes use steroids. It's a lot higher than the un-educated person on this topic would think, a lot higher.

 

[Alon]

Alon, you don't honestly think Oly lifters are drug free do you?

HAHAHA hell no, what I'm trying to say is that the rules of the sport are for drugfree competition, those are the rules - to me that's final.

For the record I've met a few international level lifters who've told me just how dirty it is. The standard in Australia is pretty achievable drugfree and in any case I believe Australian weightlifting is pretty clean. I'd rather lift second and play by the rules then come first and wonder if I beat clean athletes who played by the rules.

 

[graedy]

Do you know the Contergan-Scandal?
Its not a steroid - its a medication. That means it was researched very, very well before it was put on the market. They thought they knew everything about it and how it wokrs in the human body. You know what happened... (if not, google it)
They asked olympic athletes, if they would take a magic pill, that will make them win a gold medal but make them live only five more years. Most them would take it. I have nor problems with steroids at Prolevel. Let them take whatever they want (to my believe they do it anyway). And those Proathletes can take the stuff under perfect medical observation (still they can damage themselves with it but the risk is much lower). But Joe Average taking them? I dont understand why he should take the risk of consuming it.

And if you want an inside view into Tour de France:
"Rough Ride. Behind the wheel with a Pro-Cyclist." by Paul Kimmage

 

[Urban]

Lol thanks mod for keeping me straight. I wont bitch about english being my second language and all (hade v

 

[krellik]

Sorry man, I didn't realize it was your second language and I wouldn't have picked on you about it if I did. My appologies.

Haha its cool man Actually I got a laugh out of that post, and damn it if I dont like the thought of that lesbo orgie..

But I have been forced to be awake 40 hours straight soon to write.. So I have to be a litle grumpy.. -soon sleep- !

 

[EnderinAK]

I think that people can use them if they want. I have never used them and I won't. I will be honest and say I am very tempted because I know I can get quick gains but I am not willing to subject myself to the possible risks, but ethically I could care less. If I was using it in a competition to gain an advantage i would feel bad, but I would just use it to get buffer so I could fuck more girls... end of story... I guess some guys care about looking buff to feel good about themselves, I already feel good about myself, but I always want to fuck hotter chicks.

 

[Madmick]

I guess some guys care about looking buff to feel good about themselves, I already feel good about myself, but I always want to fuck hotter chicks.

Well said.

 

[HevyDevyGK]

I know a guy who's taking steroids and he's been goin to the gym for about 6 months and he's 19. that's surely not good right?

But to be honest I really don't know how they help your lifting or what the long term effects of using them are. I'm just of the sort of general idea that "they're bad for you" so I wouldn't use them.

 

[Brad Morris]

I seriously looked into getting on the juice when I was 18yrs old. I'm now 27. I trained with a few guys at the time who were juicers and they were monsters. I read all that I could get my hands on and asked them heaps of questions.
The guys had both good and bad experiences (mostly good) whilst using and definitely had good muscular strength, thickness and development.

One of the reasons that I decided not to use was that one of the guys suggested that I wait until I was in my early to mid twenties before I tried it. He explained why and I respected him and decided not to use.

From what I saw I do believe there is a differnce between use and abuse, and I also agree that steriod use only really amplifies the attitude within. None of the guys I trained with suffered "Roid Rage" they did notice slightly more pronounced moods but nothing major.

As for steriods and mma I think fighters should be tested especially if mma is ever to go be accepted as a mainstream sport. but it really doesn't bother me if an opponent is on the juice. There is alot more to the fight game.

To be honest there have been times since I was 18 that I have thought what it would be like to be on steroids and other performance enhancers and I like to know as much about the various enhancers as possible, But the wins in the cage/ring are even sweeter knowing that I achieved them on my own.

If a person wants to do them they should have a good level of strength already, have at least 5 years lifting experience and be in their mid to late twenties. And most importantly do the research on the performance enhancers and understand the risks (I believe there are risks).

 

[PariahCarey]

Using steroids to get big and ripped to get hotter chix...will turn into...I can't get hotter chix without getting juiced...will turn into...I can't get any chix without getting juiced...will turn into...I can't leave the house unless i'm juiced...will turn into...lifelong juice and insecurity...so you choose your happiness so you design your sorrow.

 

[meatbulle]

I would never think of using it, however what other people do with their bodies is none of my buisiness.

When it comes to competing though, I don't think roided competitors should be allowed to participate. There should be extensive testing. Putting a natural guy up against a roidmonster just isn't fair.

 

[Lard-ass]

A question to you who have juiced: is it possible to gain when your off the cycle??

If not, taking roids would kill the joy of training clean in the sense of knowing that you cant gain anything unless you continue using. Cause once your off the cycle, most people have to struggle to keep the results you

 

[thomas87]

Of course it is possible to gain when you're off. The thing with steroids is that you gain two, maybe three times more in a year than if you're only a natural. The steroids doesn't only give you a strength advantage, it boosts stamina as well.

I read that someone mentioned that they don't respect roiders -- I agree on that one. How can I respect a cheater? -- I can't . Using roids for a competitive edge is unfair, and I call it cheating -- agree or disagree, that's my POV. I don't respect their achievements nor would I credit them. I could easily respect the person, but respecting their abilities in the gym or on the canvas? -- never.

 

[Sinister]

Mike Matarazo: Open heart surgery
Arnold Schwarzeggar: Open hear surgery
Florence Griffith Joyner: Heart attack (widely suspected of steroid use, no positive tests)
Flex Wheeler: Numerous health problems.
Dorian Yates: Numerous bicep tears (athletic trainers are taught to immediately suspect steroid use when confronted with a torn bicep)
Ronnie Coleman: Gynocomastis (1998 and 1999) surgically fixed
Johnnie Jackson: Gynocomastia

Mike Matarazzo was a notorious cocaine user and his heart surgery if I'm not mistaken was from arterial blockage due to cholesterol problems (ironically enough Eddie Guerrero was also a stout recreational drug user for lengthy periods of time and the deaths of he and bodybuilders who specifically died of cardiac arrest are hauntingly similar) Arnold's heart problem was congenital, meaning he had had it since birth. Nothing to do with Steroids. Flex Wheeler had FSGS (you can google that), another condition that typically has children on their 3rd or 4th kidney by the age of 12, nothing to do with steroids. Torn biceps, regardless of your statement about trainers being taught to suspect roid use are a common injury in almost all Pro Sports, including every single sport in which steroids are a banned substance.

And you even name FloJo as only suspect with no confirmed evidence? Again, you list a bunch of things and have no real credible evidence to link them to steroids. It's very easy to take any athlete who has admitted to or is suspect of steroid use and go through their entire career and attempt to link every single injury or condition they've ever had be it before or after Professional level athletics to steroid use. This kind of alarmist information is exactly what keeps people in the dark about these sorts of things.

And for all you guys saying steroids are cheating. Well what about American athletes who use supplements that aren't available in other Countries? Isn't that cheating? What about players who have expensive corrective surgeries because they are elligible for them to corect things like vision, where there are players who have bad vision who are not candidates for those surgeries and just have to suffer or play through bad vision? I mean afterall cheating is cheating, let's either abide by it completely or not.

 

[Sinister]

Plenty of weightclasses athletes use. You mention your recovery is 'fine'. On 'roids, it would be increased. Regardless of it being 'fine', you would recover faster, more fully, and be able to train harder and longer as a result. You don't think that is an edge? Boxing is not really different. There are plenty of users in the sport. Sprinting isn't about being bigger or stronger either and the sport is similairly riddled with steroid use.

A lighter weight class should preclude you from a 'full-weight regimen' either. Your diet will contain your weight not your lifting.

Stick to what you know man, really. Which is a lot of half-information about things. Most Boxers who fight under Cruiserweight don't do full weight regimens and there are plenty reasons for that, a standard practice in many many years of Boxing. Where this is concerned I know what I'm talking about. In terms of the recovery. It's something I just don't need increased. I'm not injury-plagued, and don't have the normal problems in my training that typically lead to Anabolic recovery-agent use. You can think whatever you like about that but I know my system and abilities a little better than you do. And it's hilarious to see you straddling the fence. In one post saying all of the things that demonize steroids and proclaiming them to be true, and in the next instance arguing their viability to me. Pick a perspective and stay there. Life tends to be a lot easier that way.

If you're arguing steroids are so criminal, and such a bad thing, then you should be elated that despite that I agree with certain aspects of the "pro-steroid crowd" I have personally not chosen to take them myself.