Usman - Chimaev Media Scores

[Reach Finesse]

We have the perfect challenger in DDP who has a signature win in Whittaker the consensus number 2 by dominant finish. He also didn't just suffer an injury in a forgettable fight.

Khamzat should fight any of the other ranked 185ers. At this point he has a draw over Usman with Derek Cleary being an outlier (as usual) in two separate rounds and a win over Holland in a catchweight fight. He doesn't have a single ranked 185 win and we have 2-3 legit contenders. If you put Khamzat in you are killing 185 when it just got interesting again.

How many more divisions can we do this in?
HW-Jones and Stipe both having one last fight and riding off into the sunset.
205-Champion injured from being fat and playing basketball after the previous champ also vacated, with a 185er getting the shot off 1 win, after they just decided not to award the belt in the previous champ fight. WTF...
185-Unranked WW fighting for belt with multiple contenders like DDP, Cannonier (win over Strickland) etc
170-Colby leapfrogging the entire division again with no active WWs or ranked wins on his resume.
155-FW champ is the last 2 fights with the champ only having fought 1 of the top 10.
145-FW champ fighting in LW and just might have pushed his defence back to mid next year if he is smarter.
135-O'malley is chasing Vera with Merab now fighting CCC.
125-Pantoja only champ looking to defend.

These decisions are actually killing the divisions completely for short term fights. You just end up with guys getting completely stalled the second they end up in the top 15.

Yeah unlike Strickland who was 2-2 and getting a title shot by beating a guy whose name i cant even remember

 

[RockyLockridge]

Wtf those guys saying Usman. Wow.

absolutely embarrassing.

 

[nostradumbass]

Wtf those guys saying Usman. Wow.

Not that crazy. It's just giving 2 and 3 to Usman, and a 10-9 round 1. I thought rnd 1 was 10-8, but he wasn't saved by the bell and there was no point at which the ref could have stopped it, and some people consider a 10-8 to be nearly finished.

The other rounds were just whether you think a TD with no damage is worth more than landing better strikes.

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

28-28 Draw

 

[josh345]

The same guy

There was nothing wrong with thinking burns won that. He did better than usman. Actually dropped khamzat and arguably won. The usman fight was much more one sided. Have it 29-27 khamzat.

 

[maximus__]

You keep saying this, and I believe you, but I don't see that anywhere in the rules.

--------------



This is the scoring criteria.

It literally just says whoever has the better strikes + effective grappling.

And we went over that "effective grappling" encompasses:



And we went over that "impactful results" SHOULD encompass control:



--------------

So again - I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm not sure I understand where the "point fighting > all grappling besides strikes + subs" take comes from. I understand you keep telling me it's in the rules, I just don't really see it. I'm sure there's an obvious section I'm missing, but idk.

Effective Striking/Grappling

“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round. The next two criteria must be treated as a backup and used ONLY when Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for the round.

Effective Aggressiveness

“Aggressively making attempts to finish the fight. The key term is ‘effective’. Chasing after an opponent with no effective result or impact should not render in the judges’ assessments.” Effective Aggressiveness is only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for both competitors.

Fighting Area Control

“Fighting area control is assessed by determining who is dictating the pace, place and position of the match.” Fighting Area Control” shall only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling and Effective Aggressiveness is 100% equal for both competitors. This will be assessed very rarely.


https://mmareferee.com/?q=unifiedrules

All other scoring criteria only comes into effect if grappling and striking are 100% equal. Fight ending offence (clean signifant strikes (whether they cause damage or not) or fully locked in submissions whether they cause a submission or not, are the ultimate form of offence within MMA. It has to lead to the possibility of the fight finishing. Usman's striking in round 3 had the potenital to finish the fight. He landed 20 odd head strikes that visibly affected Chimaev. The takedown achieved nothing and Usman was able to get up and continue to win the striking. Chimaev needed more offence on the ground to take that round as he lost the entirety of the striking.

 

[Kertol]

Chimaev clearly won that fight. I scored all three rounds for him but maybe the 2nd round I can see if someone scored for Usman. Round one was a 10-8. 30-26 Chimaev or 29-27.

 

[Soggust]

Effective Striking/Grappling

“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round. The next two criteria must be treated as a backup and used ONLY when Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for the round.
Effective Aggressiveness

“Aggressively making attempts to finish the fight. The key term is ‘effective’. Chasing after an opponent with no effective result or impact should not render in the judges’ assessments.” Effective Aggressiveness is only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for both competitors.

Fighting Area Control

“Fighting area control is assessed by determining who is dictating the pace, place and position of the match.” Fighting Area Control” shall only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling and Effective Aggressiveness is 100% equal for both competitors. This will be assessed very rarely.


All other scoring criteria only comes into effect if grappling and striking are 100% equal.

I feel like you are conflating Octagon Control (Fighting Area Control) and Grappling Control

https://mmareferee.com/?q=unifiedrules

Yours says "as of 2017 rules". Mine was last amended July 2022.

My source is from unified-rules-mma-july-2022.pdf (abcboxing.com) and I don't mean this sarcastically, but I truthfully don't know which is a more valid/reputable source.

Usman's striking in round 3 had the potenital to finish the fight.

I respectfully disagree with this lol.

 

[Joshuaace]

My source is from unified-rules-mma-july-2022.pdf (abcboxing.com) and I don't mean this sarcastically, but I truthfully don't know which is a more valid/reputable source.

You have the current UR of MMA excluding the 3 minor changes approved in Aug of this year I believe. Ironically, 1 of those is about Ref/Dr communication after a foul.

Rule No.1 addresses the five-minute recovery time for a fighter cut by a foul.
Rule No.2 concerns referee positioning after a foul.
Rule No.3 focuses on cooperation between ringside doctors and referees after an eye poke or any other foul..

 

[Ianstaine]

In real time I only gave Usman Rd 2. You may of gave him a mercy round in 3 because he was getting the better of the standup.. but if that was the beginning of a fight I think Chimmy would of secured it with a takedown. That being said, Usman would of won a 5 rounder.. but even then that would require him getting the last 2 rds.. which he likely would of

 

[legcramp]

I had it as a draw, but by no means is that much of an Obvious 10-8 first round.

It was 5 minutes of control, but no damage was done and Usman was not in danger of being finished. In fact he got a slam on Khamzat as well, which apparently caused Khamzat the hand injury right? That's probably the most damage done in the round.


I had Usman winning rounds 2 and 3. Khamzat winning the first round 10-8 since it was a shutdown.

But, if you had it 10-9 based on grappling control but no damage done... then Usman wins the fight 2 rounds to 1.

I had it 28-28 but you could argue 29-28 Khamzat. There’s zero argument for 29-28 Usman.

First round was a 10-8 due to dominance and duration. I thought Usman had the more significant impact in 2 and 3. Khamzat did get the takedown in 3 but didn’t do anything with it. It’s really about round 3. Usman looked fresher and landed the most impactful shots.

 

[SamuraiBro]

Usman didn’t win lmao, I think it was a draw. Can see why they might give it to Chimaev. Either way it was a shit showing after the first round.

 

[maximus__]

I feel like you are conflating Octagon Control (Fighting Area Control) and Grappling Control



Yours says "as of 2017 rules". Mine was last amended July 2022.

My source is from unified-rules-mma-july-2022.pdf (abcboxing.com) and I don't mean this sarcastically, but I truthfully don't know which is a more valid/reputable source.



I respectfully disagree with this lol.

You posted the rules not scoring criteria? You are missing the part that defines how to score just what each word means and explanations. It doesn't actually cover what the judges are meant to assess by.

No I am explaining that the ground portion of the fight is a means to finish and is scored as such. It specifically says the position of the fighters on the ground is irrelevant. We even had a fight on this card where the active bottom fighter won the fight. It's about offence and potential to finish the fight from that offence.

Chimaevs attacks from the first round won him that round when he was attacking for 4:30. The position was irrelevant. If he landed 61 strikes on the feet, he also should have 10-8d that round.

He scored a takedown in the 3rd but no real offence from there. It's not enough to overcome the fact that Usman outstruck him in the 3rd and was landing much bigger shots on the feet. He has nothing more than 2 mins of control time and some lighter ground and pound before Usman gets back up. The ground portion of the fight shouldn't even be scored because Usman had more effective offence on the feet throughout the entire round.

It hasn't changed in terms of the explanation. Here is a 2022 one if you prefer as an image from your same source.

https://combatsportslaw.com/2022/07/25/abc-introduces-mma-scoring-ladder/

It still says the exact same thing. If striking and grappling are 100% even, we move our way down the scoring criteria.

 

[ComfortablyNumb55]

I don't even remember Usman fighting.

Seemed content standing there.

 

[Dionysian]

Alright, what I'm interested is in that 29-26 scorecard. How the fuck does that one come about?

I think that score is legitimately impossible to have. As embarrassing of a score as 42-15, consider that a member of the media is unable to do even basic math

 

[VenomCarnage]

How does Jed get to 29-26?

That’s essentially a 10-8 in the first, but seeming as Usman could not have won a round if he ends up with 26, he must have lost the next two rounds too. So how does Khamzat end up with 29?

Is Jed claiming that Round 1 is 10-7!?!?

 

[maximus__]

Yeah unlike Strickland who was 2-2 and getting a title shot by beating a guy whose name i cant even remember

No Strickland was 8-2 as a MW with wins over 3 of the top 15 in that streak. he lost to Pereira who left the division and had a close split with Cannonier who Izzy had already beaten.

Khamzat has 2 MW wins against unranked MW fighters with one being a short notice against Usman.

It stalls the division again when when have 11 ranked fighters ahead of him with multiple wins within the division including DDP with a win over Whittaker and Cannonier with a win over the champ. Plus Khamzat is saying he broke his wrist from Usman slamming them both.

It's not comparable at all.

 

[JayPettryMMA]

Who is Jay Petry

Me. Two t's.

 

[maximus__]

Me. Two t's.

10-9 in the first based off minimal damage? Defendable even if I disagree based off previous rounds that were similar.
Usman "broke" Khamzat's wrist so he was the only one that caused any real damage.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Not that crazy. It's just giving 2 and 3 to Usman, and a 10-9 round 1. I thought rnd 1 was 10-8, but he wasn't saved by the bell and there was no point at which the ref could have stopped it, and some people consider a 10-8 to be nearly finished.

The other rounds were just whether you think a TD with no damage is worth more than landing better strikes.

Pretty much all of this. Personally speaking, I had R1 a 10-9 Khamzat, but can understand a 10-8, which I definitely think we don't need more of, especially in a sport with only one five round fight per event being common. He dominated positionally but never had a choke close enough to make Usman think about tapping or locked in, and did almost no damage standing. I think Usman definitely won R2 and I believe he won the standup in R3, Khamzat's TD resulting in nothing but riding out control with no effective offense, passes or sub attempts. Usman had the better strikes in R2 and R3. It all comes down to whether or not you've got R1 a 10-8.