Usman - Chimaev Media Scores

[HeffDoesWant]

Maybe familiarize yourself with the updated scoring criteria

So can I take your avoidance of the very clear question to mean you can't think of a weaker 10-8 in ufc history?

I'm across the scoring criteria, but have also seen enough fights to know its rarely implemented.

I personally scored it 10-8 too, but I do also consider 10-7 a usable score (unlike basically ever judge in ufc history).

 

[Soggust]

You posted the rules not scoring criteria? You are missing the part that defines how to score just what each word means and explanations. It doesn't actually cover what the judges are meant to assess by.

It's a section in the rules that I linked, but no worries.

No I am explaining that the ground portion of the fight is a means to finish and is scored as such. It specifically says the position of the fighters on the ground is irrelevant. We even had a fight on this card where the active bottom fighter won the fight. It's about offence and potential to finish the fight from that offence.

Chimaevs attacks from the first round won him that round when he was attacking for 4:30. The position was irrelevant. If he landed 61 strikes on the feet, he also should have 10-8d that round.

He scored a takedown in the 3rd but no real offence from there. It's not enough to overcome the fact that Usman outstruck him in the 3rd and was landing much bigger shots on the feet. He has nothing more than 2 mins of control time and some lighter ground and pound before Usman gets back up. The ground portion of the fight shouldn't even be scored because Usman had more effective offence on the feet throughout the entire round.

It hasn't changed in terms of the explanation. Here is a 2022 one if you prefer as an image from your same source.

https://combatsportslaw.com/2022/07/25/abc-introduces-mma-scoring-ladder/

It still says the exact same thing. If striking and grappling are 100% even, we move our way down the scoring criteria.

Yeah, I understand your take. As far as the fight itself, I tend to think to give Usman two rounds you have to give him the benefit of the doubt in every 50/50 decision and sort of abuse the 10-9 system, but hey - it ain't Pride, bitch. That's how it goes sometimes and if you don't like it - don't gas or find a finish. I get it.

And quite frankly, they have started calling it the way you are describing. I will absolutely concede that. I am not arguing that this is the way it is, but rather the way I think it should be per a direct reading of the criteria. I hadn't seen the infographic they published to clarify the rules they made in 2022, but even in that it's like "is not merely" and "is evaluated more" in key sections suggesting that grappling control is still weighted, just not as much as damage.

Cause philosophically the idea that landing a couple leg kicks then laying on your back for a round holding on for dear life in closed guard is weighted equally as blasting a double and holding a guy who wants to strike down for 5 minutes seems inherently wrong to me.

But my man, I don't want to keep running you in circles. I am not likely changing anyone else's mind and that's okay. You answered my question fairly and I def appreciate the discussion.

 

[maximus__]

Pretty much all of this. Personally speaking, I had R1 a 10-9 Khamzat. He dominated positionally but never had a choke close enough to make Usman think about tapping or locked in, and did almost no damage standing. I think Usman definitely won R2 and I believe he won the standup in R3, Khamzat's TD resulting in nothing but riding out control with no effective offense, passes or sub attempts. Usman had the better strikes in R2 and R3. It all comes down to whether or not you've got R1 a 10-8.

This. I looked at it from the fact that Usman was completely unable to land anything in round 1 for the entire round and Khamzat did have some decent ground and pound before Usman stood up. Khamzat landed a 61-5 ratio in that first round. I felt that was enough to earn a 10-8, but didn't expect it to get scored that way by all 3 judges. I also would have given him a 10-8 with that sort of striking differential on the feet though.
10-9 for the other 2, because Khamzat had some huge reactions to some of Usman's strikes. He looked pretty lost out there a few times and I think he really got away with Usman coming in with no camp to this one. Khamzat is lucky he has a good chin, because he made some major mistakes that make me think he might get caught like Izzy did against Strickland if it stays standing.

 

[Paynebringer]

That should've been 5rds pound for pound. Good fight wanna see it again for 5rds and full camps. Lets see DDP do his ting with Strickland, let Bortz/Usman really fight it out on equal grounds when it comes to fight readiness for next.

 

[maximus__]

It's a section in the rules that I linked, but no worries.



Yeah, I understand your take. As far as the fight itself, I tend to think to give Usman two rounds you have to give him the benefit of the doubt in every 50/50 decision and sort of abuse the 10-9 system, but hey - it ain't Pride, bitch. That's how it goes sometimes and if you don't like it - don't gas or find a finish. I get it.

And quite frankly, they have started calling it the way you are describing. I will absolutely concede that. I am not arguing that this is the way it is, but rather the way I think it should be per a direct reading of the criteria. I hadn't seen the infographic they published to clarify the rules they made in 2022, but even in that it's like "is not merely" and "is evaluated more" in key sections suggesting that grappling control is still weighted, just not as much as damage.

Cause philosophically the idea that landing a couple leg kicks then laying on your back for a round holding on for dear life in closed guard is weighted equally as blasting a double and holding a guy who wants to strike down for 5 minutes seems inherently wrong to me.

But my man, I don't want to keep running you in circles. I am not likely changing anyone else's mind and that's okay. You answered my question fairly and I def appreciate the discussion.

I get where you are coming from and just want to clarify.

I think where you get confused is how it previously got scored. The takedown and then controlling someone would win rounds because we all know hitting a takedown is hard and holding someone down is also hard, but they clarified the rules to just treat that as a changing of position and offence must occur from there.

I assess by the scoring criteria, I actually think a takedown should be worth more because they are hard to hit. It should be similar to a knockdown IMO. The way to fix it all is to reward subs and bottom offence more. It seems they are going that way recently which is good with Tim Elliot being up in his fight vs Mokaev and Sharapov(or whatever his name is) winning rounds from their backs with legit offence.

I have no issues being disagreed with mate. I enjoy talking about this stuff.
I see your argument, I just think the scoring criteria is pretty clear and like to actually put it out there when people self judge fights.

 

[StonedLemur]

Who is Jay Petry

He's an administrator here sir

 

[corrupted]

No way on earth? Why the silly superlative? It's pretty reasonable to have the same scoring as you did except round 1 being a 10-9. Which it kinda should be. Usman was never even close to getting finished. It's a slippery slope with liberal 10-8s

Ok, fair point. I can debate my point. - I think it's fair that he won the last two rounds, although, that can be argued against as well ... I don't think the 1st round was a 10-9 and I don't agree that it "kinda should be". I felt that he was in genuine danger of being finished twice and had little to no output of his own. There have been worse 10-8s, but I felt that one was pretty clear. And with that, I don't see how he could be argued to have won the entire fight.

I would actually argue that it is a more valid argument that Khamzat also won the 3rd, than round 1 was a 10-9

 

[corrupted]

So can I take your avoidance of the very clear question to mean you can't think of a weaker 10-8 in ufc history?

I'm across the scoring criteria, but have also seen enough fights to know its rarely implemented.

I personally scored it 10-8 too, but I do also consider 10-7 a usable score (unlike basically ever judge in ufc history).

I can IMAGINE ones that were weaker - I'm sure there will have been ... and stronger rounds where 10-8 wasn't given (Shogun/Hendo) being one for me . . I just can't see where you give Usman anything but the lowest score possible for that round.

10-7? No. Not unless a foul has been committed. I would expect a fight where someone was 10-8'd and had to foul badly just to survive would have to be stopped - during the round or at the end of it. I can't see that it would ever get to the point that the score actually decided who won

 

[Vairloff]

Yea round 1 definitely was a draw. Hard to tell
Who performed better in that round

You can read?

 

[Vairloff]

Exactly.

One fight they don't score 'control' at all.
Another fight they give a 10-8 for control in a round where the other fighter did the most damage.. a la slam which caused an injury.

No consistency in Abu Dubious

But there is consistency. Judges score runds for muslim fighters.

 

[Soggust]

If the argument is that "according to the new rules, damage is everything and so Usman won round 2 + 3 because we don't weight the grappling", then how the fuck can we also argue that round 1 is a 10-9 when the rules were changed specifically to accompany more 10-8s?

I don't agree with a draw, but an Usman win is regional boxing level corrupt judging.

 

[fica]

Lol people talk about khamzat tank that was not it in this fight but broken wrist if he was healthy in 2 and 3rd round he would demolish usman so they were even 2 week notice and broken wrist

 

[Cooliox]

But there is consistency. Judges score runds for muslim fighters.

 

[AbominableJoman]

Lmfao at the blind dorks scoring for Marty. Should be banned from scoring, watching, and thinking about mma.

 

[fica]

But there is consistency. Judges score runds for muslim fighters.

I thought Americans believe in sports is major and only fair chance for everybody but ilas long as Americans fighters are winning lol

 

[Petarito]

Wtf those guys saying Usman. Wow.

Unbelivable

 

[chinarice]

Pretty much all of this. Personally speaking, I had R1 a 10-9 Khamzat, but can understand a 10-8, which I definitely think we don't need more of, especially in a sport with only one five round fight per event being common. He dominated positionally but never had a choke close enough to make Usman think about tapping or locked in, and did almost no damage standing. I think Usman definitely won R2 and I believe he won the standup in R3, Khamzat's TD resulting in nothing but riding out control with no effective offense, passes or sub attempts. Usman had the better strikes in R2 and R3. It all comes down to whether or not you've got R1 a 10-8.

Unquestionable 10-8 round for Khamzat. If you completely shutdown a fighter and outstrike him by like 5x the amount of strikes, that's a 10-8. To act like round 1 and rounds 2 and 3 deserve the same score is absolutely bonkers. 2 rounds were super close. 1 was a blowout. They can't be scored the same

 

[fica]

This. I looked at it from the fact that Usman was completely unable to land anything in round 1 for the entire round and Khamzat did have some decent ground and pound before Usman stood up. Khamzat landed a 61-5 ratio in that first round. I felt that was enough to earn a 10-8, but didn't expect it to get scored that way by all 3 judges. I also would have given him a 10-8 with that sort of striking differential on the feet though.
10-9 for the other 2, because Khamzat had some huge reactions to some of Usman's strikes. He looked pretty lost out there a few times and I think he really got away with Usman coming in with no camp to this one. Khamzat is lucky he has a good chin, because he made some major mistakes that make me think he might get caught like Izzy did against Strickland if it stays standing.

Khamzat should win and even more impressive to took him down in round 2 and 3 while having g wrist broken If a man with broken wrist can still take you down you are done and should not win

 

[mjfan23]

You can mute the fight, you can watch it with one eye closed it doesn’t change the facts:

Khamzat took him down every round, had massive control time and out struck Usman by a large margin.

 

[maximus__]

Khamzat should win and even more impressive to took him down in round 2 and 3 while having g wrist broken If a man with broken wrist can still take you down you are done and should not win

It's MMA takedowns only score if it's followed by offence.

Let's be honest, he hasn't broken his wrist. He hurt it when Usman slammed him on it and wanted an excuse for gassing after a round. He is shaking hands and fist pumping fans with it before and after he says that on camera.