International Updated: Trump says he authorised CIA in Venezuela as Maduro says 'no to regime change'

[Rob Battisti]

Why would you say its "fun." That's literally what they do.

The insurance companies in conclusion with pharmaceutical companies do an equal amount of damage in this Country and behave like cartels outside of this Country. Should we be bombed by Countries who are affected by this because we allow it? Elon Musk funded a Bolivian Coup for a mineral and bragged about it on social media, Exxon had death squads operating in Nigeria who executed teachers, PepsiCo funded the Chilean Coup of Allende.

The difference is merely the "legality" of certain markets. The drug cartels MUST operate in a black market in much of their biggest markets. People want drugs, they sell drugs, the Government declares War on a foreign Nation who just also happens to resources we've wanted for decades. Cartels are not terrorists because they have no specific political pr ideoligia agenda. They sell their products and any political involvement is to quell the violence of the State.



And when we decide we dont like them:



But hey they're all gang members...or well, related to them.

Sure that’s all they do. Enjoy your night.

 

[Rob Battisti]

"Cartels are terrorists"

Conservatives have been saying some version of the above for years - 'all the thugs and criminals are democrats', etc.

As you stated, drug dealers, convicts, thugs, et. al., are 99.99% apolitical, and it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would suggest otherwise.

In fact, in the US at least, the only group of current criminals that you could call political are the white supremacists/skinheads - which, to be fair, is a very small minority of white cons.

They are. It was designated earlier this year.

Do you deny that cartels traffic human beings? That they supply drugs which kill 100k people a year? Or are they all innocent to you?

 

[helltoupee]

Partial thread hijack incoming:

Big part of the opioid crisis is socio-economic, and outside of culturally folks being more alienated and unattached from their employers (since increasingly everyone is "just a number" subject to zero reciprocity for their loyalty (and TBF, vice versa)), life expectancy has struggled in the USA as compared to many peer countries that experience worse economic performance.

I do appreciate these thoughts on the Democrats, and some of the differences, but I've lost faith in this. It's like the Israel thing -- if you happen to be of a persuasion that a genocide (or something very uncomfortably close) is taking place, you, really have no choice but to vote for someone that will do a great bit of work to fund the genocide effort. Some Democrats may give a bit more lip service, and "try to do" x and y, but at the end of the day, Bibi's gonna get his weapons and support to keep going.

I'm basically retired to this view when it comes to helping the middle and working class in the economy. My personal view is we are in a precarious time. I think we've lost the plot when it comes to having the next generation inherit a better work these days both economically and culturally, and I don't think either party can swing us out of that... it's just a streetcar named failure.

% of people making more money than their parents:

In my view the "backbone of society" for they pay welfare and richfare subsidies and still hope to get their piece is struggling.

You just showed what trickle down has brought us, which has been the focus of the Republican party since Ronald Reagan.

On Israel, I absolutely agree. That's why I mentioned that there is a subset of policy in this country that transcends party lines - Israel, MIC, Wall Street, etc.

When the wealthy have their taxes cut, someone else has to pick up the slack, and that someone else is the middle class. The ultra wealthy have it figured out - enlist the middle class to fight the poors 'I don't want my taxes paying for some welfare slob', when, something like $50 annually of your average middle class income tax liability goes towards social assistance programs.

I agree that neither party will address the extreme waste of the pentagon either - who regularly claims that trillions of dollars just vanishes in to thin air.

I believe this country was founded on one underlying principle - tyranny of the majority. We are taught in school that this is a very bad thing, however it is my opinion that tyranny of the majority has nothing to do with some altruistic notion of protecting the little guy, and everything to do with protecting the wealth and property of the aristocrats from the masses. The founding fathers were intimately concerned with the possibility that common citizens could revolt, or even vote them out of their wealth/property in a direct democracy, which is why we have a highly curated "choice" of politicians, and an electoral college.

 

[helltoupee]

They are. It was designated earlier this year.

Do you deny that cartels traffic human beings? That they supply drugs which kill 100k people a year? Or are they all innocent to you?

Terrorism is a means to a political end.

I am not denying that cartels commit crimes - I just don't think they are trafficking people in order to achieve some kind of political change - is that what you are suggesting?

What I said stands. Criminals and cartels are apolitical 99% of the time.

 

[Osculater]

And I gave him a well done when he did.

 

[helltoupee]

Kind of off topic, but maybe not well known is that Pablo Escobar was voted to be a member of Congress in Colombia. Was obviously blood money, but he did his charitable donations to the downtrodden possibly better than government. Though that's the "danger" of philanthropy when it's from ill-gotten gains. One of my favorite web-surfing memories was clicking on an article for a massacre that took place (unfortunately details escape me) of a mine owner working with police to gun down striking miners. When I clicked on the owners name to get to his wikipedia page he was described as a "philanthropist" because after he would help murder his striking workers, he would donate some money from his profits back to society.

Indeed - Pablo was a hero to many people. Not only did he involve himself in politics, but he built entire neighborhoods and apartment complexes for poor people (no rent), a soccer stadium, etc. - which seems to be buying himself favor with the local population similar to the philanthropist you mentioned.

Not sure how much this was out of charity though. He had so much cash coming in that he had 100's of vacant houses around Columbia that were filled from floor to ceiling with cash - leaving just a little walkway in between the stacks. The problem was the humid environment would ruin the money with mold and it would quickly deteriorate. So they would just burn the house down with all of the moldy cash in it.

Someone with that much money giving a donation is like your average middle class person giving a bum 5 cents. I don't think most people truly understand how much $1 billion actually is.

 

[Osculater]

I want this as a poster

He wishes he could fight against the cartels but those bone spurs though.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Indeed - Pablo was a hero to many people. Not only did he involve himself in politics, but he built entire neighborhoods and apartment complexes for poor people (no rent), a soccer stadium, etc. - which seems to be buying himself favor with the local population similar to the philanthropist you mentioned.

Not sure how much this was out of charity though. He had so much cash coming in that he had 100's of vacant houses around Columbia that were filled from floor to ceiling with cash - leaving just a little walkway in between the stacks. The problem was the humid environment would ruin the money with mold and it would quickly deteriorate. So they would just burn the house down with all of the moldy cash in it.

Someone with that much money giving a donation is like your average middle class person giving a bum 5 cents. I don't think most people truly understand how much $1 billion actually is.

Yeah, when I was in Colombia i went to his old neighborhood and also where he was killed. Funny story is apparently his old properties were rife with folks who would dig the earth around them hoping to find money LOL.

Speaking of which, Colombia is still the biggest producers of cocaine it appears, though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some really shady deals between the government and the USA. Medellin is supposedly developed as much as it is now because of "textiles", but it seems like bullshit. I have little doubt the gov't took over some of the cartel business and dubious stuff is going on.

After Colombia apparently come Peru, Bolivia, and Chile. There's not a lot of mention around Venezuela online as I can tell.

I once did a flight from Bolivia, to Colombia, to New York. In Bolivia they made everyone in line to board their plane drop their carry on against the one side of the boarding tunnel while a dog sniffed it all. My bag never made it back home on the route, it had to be delivered to me a few days later and it was obviously opened up and rifled through by inspectors. Fuckers didn't even zip it back up properly after they were done with it.

 

[helltoupee]

Yeah, when I was in Colombia i went to his old neighborhood and also where he was killed. Funny story is apparently his old properties were rife with folks who would dig the earth around them hoping to find money LOL.

Speaking of which, Colombia is still the biggest producers of cocaine it appears, though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some really shady deals between the government and the USA. Medellin is supposedly developed as much as it is now because of "textiles", but it seems like bullshit. I have little doubt the gov't took over some of the cartel business and dubious stuff is going on.

After Colombia apparently come Peru, Bolivia, and Chile. There's not a lot of mention around Venezuela online as I can tell.

I once did a flight from Bolivia, to Colombia, to New York. In Bolivia they made everyone in line to board their plane drop their carry on against the one side of the boarding tunnel while a dog sniffed it all. My bag never made it back home on the route, it had to be delivered to me a few days later and it was obviously opened up and rifled through by inspectors. Fuckers didn't even zip it back up properly after they were done with it.

Never been to Columbia myself, but I have read a few books about him - Killing Pablo and The Accountant (I believe was written by Pablo's brother (could be wrong about the brother part - it was a long time ago), who was in charge of all of the money. Not the same as the movie by the same name.

 

[oldshadow]

Look it up for yourself.

 

[Osculater]

Look it up for yourself.

I'm just messing around bro LOL

 

[LeonardoBjj]

I think the Ladies of the Night and the Johns should all be tested for STDs before fornicating

- I agree. The women are at a far bigger risk than the guys.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

I want this as a poster

- You're a master at your craft, bro!

 

[Rob Battisti]

Terrorism is a means to a political end.

I am not denying that cartels commit crimes - I just don't think they are trafficking people in order to achieve some kind of political change - is that what you are suggesting?

What I said stands. Criminals and cartels are apolitical 99% of the time.

Suggesting? I’m suggesting they are currently labeled as a terrorist organization. That is a fact.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

Just out of curiosity, morally speaking, why do you support the Military execution of people who sell drugs to people who want drugs, even if they've done so illegally? Why is it ok for them to get bombed outside of our borders? Is there any other market you feel this strongly about? Because we never bombed Epstein's island and he was selling little girls.

- From the other point of view. US is the terrorist org attacking sovereign territory. Even thought it's was international water in this case

 

[Rob Battisti]

- From the other point of view. US is the terrorist org attacking sovereign territory. Even thought it's was international water in this case

This is one way to look at it.

 

[helltoupee]

Suggesting? I’m suggesting they are currently labeled as a terrorist organization. That is a fact.

Ok, so what's your point?

You think cartels are participating in human trafficking to achieve some kind of political gain?

Good to know that your "facts" rely on the obfuscation of the definition of words.

What's next? Are you going to tell me that the Epstein files were a "hoax" perpetuated by democrats? Is that a "fact" too? Because that's what it's been "labeled" as? Or does "hoax" really mean something else now?

You're either a troll, really dumb, or just being dishonest because of this apparent eggshell ego you got going. Words have definitions.

 

[avenue94]

Aside from his fervent Israel support, he has been a reasonable addition to the senate.

I am kind of scratching my head at lines like “they killed 11 people” when those “people” are a part of a brutal cartel organization that lead to the deaths of 100,000+ Americans every year.

Not only is this a good move, I’d like to see more of it. We need to stem the tide of drugs coming into America.

How do we know all 11 criminals were committing capital crimes? Why's extrajudicial murder the default option, rather than detainment? Surely you realize how dangerous this is, to argue that any country can execute criminals in international waters with no due process.

What's to stop China from doing the same to Filipino fisherman or US cargo vessels in the South China Sea now? International law only works when it's vaguely applied to everyone.

 

[avenue94]

Cartels are rightfully labeled terrorists.

To me, this is a foreign organization which kills Americans. It’s not a drug dealer on the corner selling weed.

I would have been highly in favor of destroying Epstein, but alas he was a government agent himself. All cartel members and pdfs should die.

They are very clearly not terrorists if using what the actual US laws on terrorism say.

 

[Sinister]

"Cartels are terrorists"

Conservatives have been saying some version of the above for years - 'all the thugs and criminals are democrats', etc.

As you stated, drug dealers, convicts, thugs, et. al., are 99.99% apolitical, and it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would suggest otherwise.

In fact, in the US at least, the only group of current criminals that you could call political are the white supremacists/skinheads - which, to be fair, is a very small minority of white cons.

They're literally capitalists who must just operate outside of the legal framework. They procure means of production, and move their product. They only get politically involved insomuch as it effects their ability to build wealth.