International Updated: Trump says he authorised CIA in Venezuela as Maduro says 'no to regime change'

[Rob Battisti]

I accept your concession.

Your favorite line ever

 

[Rational Poster]

Your favorite line ever

I mean that's all your post is when you ignore the questions I ask multiple times.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I mean that's all your post is when you ignore the questions I ask multiple times.

Are cartels now labeled terrorists? Yes.

Have we bombed terrorists in the past before? Yes.

Has the government lied about bombing people they claimed were terrorists? Yes.

Is the government lying about bombing these people they are claiming to be terrorists? It’s possible.

Did you question the thousands of other times “terrorists” were bombed? No.

 

[syct23]

Are cartels now labeled terrorists? Yes.

Have we bombed terrorists in the past before? Yes.

Has the government lied about bombing people they claimed were terrorists? Yes.

Is the government lying about bombing these people they are claiming to be terrorists? It’s possible.

Did you question the thousands of other times “terrorists” were bombed? No.

Didn’t really have to question the other times “terrorist” we’re bombed, because we were already at war with them..

 

[Rational Poster]

Are cartels now labeled terrorists? Yes.

Have we bombed terrorists in the past before? Yes.

Has the government lied about bombing people they claimed were terrorists? Yes.

Is the government lying about bombing these people they are claiming to be terrorists? It’s possible.

Did you question the thousands of other times “terrorists” were bombed? No.

How do we know the people on the boat were cartel members?

How many terrorists have we killed in international waters outside of declared war zones?

Why are you suddenly a skeptic when you were at first full throating your support for this?

 

[Rob Battisti]

Didn’t really have to question the other times “terrorist” we’re bombed, because we were already at war with them..

Yeah? Never have we killed terrorists while not being “at war”? What qualifies this in your mind?

How do we know the people on the boat were cartel members?

How many terrorists have we killed in international waters outside of declared war zones?

Why are you suddenly a skeptic when you were at first full throating your support for this?

The answer to your first question is exactly what I’m getting at. You don’t. You didn’t know any other time any other “terrorist” was killed either. You believed. Now you don’t believe.

It hasn’t happened in international waters before but it has happened on land all the time. Not in “war zones” all the time.

I don’t believe the government at all with anything. You do.

 

[Rational Poster]

Yeah? Never have we killed terrorists while not being “at war”? What qualifies this in your mind?

The answer to your first question is exactly what I’m getting at. You don’t. You didn’t know any other time any other “terrorist” was killed either. You believed. Now you don’t believe.

It hasn’t happened in international waters before but it has happened on land all the time. Not in “war zones” all the time.

I don’t believe the government at all with anything. You do.

So you were just lying when you said this then?

"
I am kind of scratching my head at lines like “they killed 11 people” when those “people” are a part of a brutal cartel organization that lead to the deaths of 100,000+ Americans every year.

Not only is this a good move, I’d like to see more of it. We need to stem the tide of drugs coming into America."

 

[Rob Battisti]

So you were just lying when you said this then?

"
I am kind of scratching my head at lines like “they killed 11 people” when those “people” are a part of a brutal cartel organization that lead to the deaths of 100,000+ Americans every year.

Not only is this a good move, I’d like to see more of it. We need to stem the tide of drugs coming into America."

No I think that IF they were drug cartel members, I’m glad we did it. As the the validity of the claim, one can only believe or not believe the US government.

 

[Rational Poster]

No I think that IF they were drug cartel members, I’m glad we did it. As the the validity of the claim, one can only believe or not believe the US government.

So you didn't lie but also didn't mean it but you actually meant something else now that I've pointed out that you weren't being consistent.

 

[Rob Battisti]

So you didn't lie but also didn't mean it but you actually meant something else now that I've pointed out that you weren't being consistent.

Do you always believe the government or just not right now?

 

[ermac88]

Huge difference between invading or bombing countries and working with local forces to combat criminal organizations killing americans.

That moment when liberals spew hypocritical, illogical takes because they have to oppose the other side no matter what. Imagine being dumb enough that you can be manipulated into hating your own country depending on who the leader is.

LOL!

I guess you never heard of Afghanistan or Iraq?


Its wild hearing a foreigner that knows nothing about the US (nor the world) babble incoherently with trumps balls in his mouth

 

[Rational Poster]

Do you always believe the government or just not right now?

I'm not a binary thinker.

 

[Sinister]

No I think that IF they were drug cartel members, I’m glad we did it. As the the validity of the claim, one can only believe or not believe the US government.

Just out of curiosity, morally speaking, why do you support the Military execution of people who sell drugs to people who want drugs, even if they've done so illegally? Why is it ok for them to get bombed outside of our borders? Is there any other market you feel this strongly about? Because we never bombed Epstein's island and he was selling little girls.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Just out of curiosity, morally speaking, why do you support the Military execution of people who sell drugs to people who want drugs, even if they've done so illegally? Why is it ok for them to get bombed outside of our borders? Is there any other market you feel this strongly about? Because we never bombed Epstein's island and he was selling little girls.

“People who sell drugs to people who want drugs”

That’s a very fun way to frame this.

I believe that we should summarily destroy the cartels to the best of our ability because drugs kill 100k+ Americans per year on top of destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands more. Cartels also, on top of being brutally violent, are heavy into human trafficking which is in part funded by their drug profits.

Cartels are rightfully labeled terrorists.

To me, this is a foreign organization which kills Americans. It’s not a drug dealer on the corner selling weed.

I would have been highly in favor of destroying Epstein, but alas he was a government agent himself. All cartel members and pdfs should die.

 

[Sinister]

“People who sell drugs to people who want drugs”

That’s a very fun way to frame this.

I believe that we should summarily destroy the cartels to the best of our ability because drugs kill 100k+ Americans per year on top of destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands more. Cartels also, on top of being brutally violent, are heavy into human trafficking which is in part funded by their drug profits.

Cartels are rightfully labeled terrorists.

To me, this is a foreign organization which kills Americans. It’s not a drug dealer on the corner selling weed.

I would have been highly in favor of destroying Epstein, but alas he was a government agent himself. All cartel members and pdfs should die.

Why would you say its "fun." That's literally what they do.

The insurance companies in conclusion with pharmaceutical companies do an equal amount of damage in this Country and behave like cartels outside of this Country. Should we be bombed by Countries who are affected by this because we allow it? Elon Musk funded a Bolivian Coup for a mineral and bragged about it on social media, Exxon had death squads operating in Nigeria who executed teachers, PepsiCo funded the Chilean Coup of Allende.

The difference is merely the "legality" of certain markets. The drug cartels MUST operate in a black market in much of their biggest markets. People want drugs, they sell drugs, the Government declares War on a foreign Nation who just also happens to resources we've wanted for decades. Cartels are not terrorists because they have no specific political pr ideoligia agenda. They sell their products and any political involvement is to quell the violence of the State.



And when we decide we dont like them:



But hey they're all gang members...or well, related to them.

 

[helltoupee]

It'd be nice if these politicians would work on the demand side of the equation and actually try to genuinely make life better for people instead of being in the pockets of donors.

The democrats have been trying to get the disclose act passed since 2010 - which would provide more transparency in regards to political donations, prohibitions on foreign political donations, superPACs would be squashed, inaugural committees would have to disclose expenditures and who paid for them, Congress members would be prevented from serving on boards of private corporations, there was a huge expansion of laws in regards to both foreign and domestic bribery (ie., lobbying), among many other things.

Guess who kills the bill every time it comes up?

The democrats certainly aren't perfect, and I have long argued that they do share a subset of policy preferences with republicans that goes beyond partisan politics, however, that said, they don't make the entirety of their platform based on making the ultra wealthy even more wealthy (ie trickle down), which has been, other than culture wars, the only policy republicans have concerned themselves with for the last 5 decades. Democrats at least make an attempt to help the common citizen.

 

[helltoupee]

Why would you say its "fun." That's literally what they do.

The insurance companies in conclusion with pharmaceutical companies do an equal amount of damage in this Country and behave like cartels outside of this Country. Should we be bombed by Countries who are affected by this because we allow it? Elon Musk funded a Bolivian Coup for a mineral and bragged about it on social media, Exxon had death squads operating in Nigeria who executed teachers, PepsiCo funded the Chilean Coup of Allende.

The difference is merely the "legality" of certain markets. The drug cartels MUST operate in a black market in much of their biggest markets. People want drugs, they sell drugs, the Government declares War on a foreign Nation who just also happens to resources we've wanted for decades. Cartels are not terrorists because they have no specific political pr ideoligia agenda. They sell their products and any political involvement is to quell the violence of the State.



And when we decide we dont like them:



But hey they're all gang members...or well, related to them.

"Cartels are terrorists"

Conservatives have been saying some version of the above for years - 'all the thugs and criminals are democrats', etc.

As you stated, drug dealers, convicts, thugs, et. al., are 99.99% apolitical, and it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would suggest otherwise.

In fact, in the US at least, the only group of current criminals that you could call political are the white supremacists/skinheads - which, to be fair, is a very small minority of white cons.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

The democrats have been trying to get the disclose act passed since 2010 - which would provide more transparency in regards to political donations, prohibitions on foreign political donations, superPACs would be squashed, inaugural committees would have to disclose expenditures and who paid for them, Congress members would be prevented from serving on boards of private corporations, there was a huge expansion of laws in regards to both foreign and domestic bribery (ie., lobbying), among many other things.

Guess who kills the bill every time it comes up?

The democrats certainly aren't perfect, and I have long argued that they do share a subset of policy preferences with republicans that goes beyond partisan politics, however, that said, they don't make the entirety of their platform based on making the ultra wealthy even more wealthy (ie trickle down), which has been, other than culture wars, the only policy republicans have concerned themselves with for the last 5 decades. Democrats at least make an attempt to help the common citizen.

Partial thread hijack incoming:

Big part of the opioid crisis is socio-economic, and outside of culturally folks being more alienated and unattached from their employers (since increasingly everyone is "just a number" subject to zero reciprocity for their loyalty (and TBF, vice versa)), life expectancy has struggled in the USA as compared to many peer countries that experience worse economic performance.

I do appreciate these thoughts on the Democrats, and some of the differences, but I've lost faith in this. It's like the Israel thing -- if you happen to be of a persuasion that a genocide (or something very uncomfortably close) is taking place, you, really have no choice but to vote for someone that will do a great bit of work to fund the genocide effort. Some Democrats may give a bit more lip service, and "try to do" x and y, but at the end of the day, Bibi's gonna get his weapons and support to keep going.

I'm basically retired to this view when it comes to helping the middle and working class in the economy. My personal view is we are in a precarious time. I think we've lost the plot when it comes to having the next generation inherit a better work these days both economically and culturally, and I don't think either party can swing us out of that... it's just a streetcar named failure.

% of people making more money than their parents:

In my view the "backbone of society" for they pay welfare and richfare subsidies and still hope to get their piece is struggling.

 

[fedorthegoat777]

That moment when conservatives reveal that their perspective on not using more tax dollars for Military action against foreign nations is total BS.

Blockading Venezuela has nothing to do with cartels, and never has. It has to do with desired resource procurement.

Republicans love wasting tax dollars on war, always have.

Democrats also love wasting tax dollars, just on other things.

There is no fiscal conservation, just keep on spending and wasting.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

"Cartels are terrorists"

Conservatives have been saying some version of the above for years - 'all the thugs and criminals are democrats', etc.

As you stated, drug dealers, convicts, thugs, et. al., are 99.99% apolitical, and it's beyond ridiculous that anyone would suggest otherwise.

In fact, in the US at least, the only group of current criminals that you could call political are the white supremacists/skinheads - which, to be fair, is a very small minority of white cons.

Kind of off topic, but maybe not well known is that Pablo Escobar was voted to be a member of Congress in Colombia. Was obviously blood money, but he did his charitable donations to the downtrodden possibly better than government. Though that's the "danger" of philanthropy when it's from ill-gotten gains. One of my favorite web-surfing memories was clicking on an article for a massacre that took place (unfortunately details escape me) of a mine owner working with police to gun down striking miners. When I clicked on the owners name to get to his wikipedia page he was described as a "philanthropist" because after he would help murder his striking workers, he would donate some money from his profits back to society.