Undefeated boxing champs laugh at Conor's showing against Mayweather
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Fyi it was his first boxing match vs the greatest boxer ever. Fyi
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Just like when former ufc champ Sylvia got koed in 6 seconds against Ray mercer.
Cause standing boxers don't fuck around in a cage.
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Conor financial fans return!
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Canner should stick to touchbutt
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Is he laughing at their lack of sexual assault allegations?
Boxing has a rich history that the ufc can dream of. I love both but let's not downplay how good boxing was in the past.
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Here's a more precise response man!I'm okay with someone preferring one sport over another. Thinking one sport is objectively superior? No, not so much. I just can't get behind that way of thinking, not least of all because there's no way to judge such things except in the eye of the beholder. To each their own, though.
I don't think think @Ironnik94 was dismissing boxing as whole in his post, but I wasn't sure exactly what his stance was either, which is why I quoted him because for a poster known for his thoughtful and analytical posts it was a surprisingly blunt blanket statement that seemed out-of-character for him.
That's fair enough. On a subjective basis I agree with you because this is exactly why I prefer to watch MMA over boxing: more looks, more ways to win, more archetypes, etc. But at the same time I've never found the argument that any combat sport needs to justify itself through the lens of being close to "real" combat particularly convincing. Furthermore, narrowly specializing in "just striking with the hands" can create specialists who are true artists within that field and a joy to watch -- even though I don't consider myself a boxing fan, I can't help but respect the sport as an outsider looking in. Within that niche, I recognize that there's more going than I probably give credit for.
The corruption -- like you said, that's not inherent to the sport/ruleset itself. Furthermore, with the leading promotion in MMA now under major legal scrutiny and MMA's history of worked fights (particularly in Japan), I'm not sure MMA is some bastion of clean competition by comparison.
You're absolutely entitled to your opinion, sherbro. I never thought I'd be one to defend boxing considering I don't even watch it or follow it. But I do respect the sport for what it is (not to say you don't). And personally speaking, I think the two should be compartmentalized from one another -- not ranked above or below. Personal preference is fine, of course, just like with any sport. You're talking to a guy who would rather watch some iKON or LFA prelims over the WBC heavyweight world championship bout, soooo... take it with a grain of salt
That's pretty much what I'm getting at.
Now first and foremost, this is not to say that boxing and other specific combat sports shouldn't exist or are obsolete - just to avoid misunderstandings.
The reason why i consider MMA to be the king of combat sports are several ones; on one hand, it's closer to fully unrestricted unarmed combat and thus very "pure" and on the other hand - and this is the result of what i mentioned here - the fact that there's sooo much room for improvement, ways to victory, technique and things to happen just makes MMA more "whole" to me, if that makes sense; there are so many facets to MMA, that the picture of what MMA is, is so vast and can be so different from instance to instance!
With that increased level of complexity also comes also more room for error, making it such an unpredictable sport too, compared to other combat sports.
If a combat sport is simple (relatively speaking!) having great talent in terms of how you learn and execute movements and being athletic already gets you super far, even without being that much of a talent when it comes to decision-making/fight-IQ, whereas in MMA, the latter alone can be enough to beat people who excel in the former two, so by default, even the best fighters in MMA can all be drastically different from each other and i think that this is also a huge part of what makes the sport so amazing.
There's not as much of a "one size fits all"-approach and due to this, there's a place for every strength, be it physical, mental or tactical in MMA (and also a way to exploit every kind of weakness!).
One more thing that comes to my mind in regards to the "purest form of combat sports" argument: of course one doesn't need to care about these things, but i still place things that "work in real combat" higher than things you only get away with due to a certain rule-set; for example when Mayweather fought Conor, there were instances, where Mayweather just bent 90 degrees forward leaving his head right in front of Conor - this is something, you obviously wanna avoid in MMA, but especially in an "actual fight".
This is also the reason, why i love striking in MMA more; the gloves are smaller, requiring more caution, since bones in the hands break easier, but also making it far more difficult to block strikes (and easier to land strikes, once in range).
Honestly, i'd love bare knuckle MMA, where fighters would also use palm-strikes - that'd be the dopest shit ever to me, i think, haha.
Agree with your argument on the corruption, although i was mostly talking about the sports themselves "in a vacuum" which you also have acknowledged.
Last but not least, your criticism for my initial elitist comment is understandable and justified, but i also want to emphasize right now, that it also should be taken with a grain of salt.
It's a good thing people have the choice to do whatever combat sport they want and i understand and agree with what you've said about specialists as well.
It's a bit as it is with music; i think technical and well-written metal, classical music, etc. is better than the mainstream stuff, but it's still great that there are so many different genres and there's beauty to each one of them, imo.
Hope this helps!
@SteveColdStone tagging you also, since i figured you could be interested in my response.
The same mercer that was subbed by Kimbo slice in the cage...
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"Furthermore, Vergil earns a base fight purse of $75,000 for each of his fights under the Golden Boy Promotions."
https://playersbio.com/vergil-ortiz-jr-bio/
A 15-0 champ in the UFC would have easily gotten multiple times that.
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This thread gave me autism
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So, at one point in time, you did think Conor had a good shot/showing against Floyd?
Stop it! Conor had a good showing vs Floyd when you consider his level and the expectations of him, only a hater or a dummy would think otherwise. Besides that, no Floyd did not carry Conor. If you actually understand the circumstances in that fight and know Floyds style and career, you know he didn't.
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The true undefeated champs on boxing are:
loyd Mayweather and Ricardo Lopez who were undefeated in 50 fights.
I don't like Conor but give credit where credit is due. He is an MMA fighter, grappling as well as training in kickboxing, muay thai, karate, kung fu, tang soo do, taekwondo and Shootfighting is very taxing on the body and adding boxing is difficult for the body to recover.
loyd Mayweather and Ricardo Lopez who were undefeated in 50 fights.
I don't like Conor but give credit where credit is due. He is an MMA fighter, grappling as well as training in kickboxing, muay thai, karate, kung fu, tang soo do, taekwondo and Shootfighting is very taxing on the body and adding boxing is difficult for the body to recover.
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just a casual that was at ufc 13 but please excuse me maybe Floyd isn't the greatest greatest
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They already did. One got choked out and embarrassed in 3 mins in James Toney. And another, Mayorga, went 0-3 vs amateurs tapping out twice. Another British champ got TKOd easily in the 2000s. And you had the guy from Japan, Nishijima, went 0-5, got finished every fight.
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Conor would sleep both of them
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Here's a more precise response man!
Now first and foremost, this is not to say that boxing and other specific combat sports shouldn't exist or are obsolete - just to avoid misunderstandings.
The reason why i consider MMA to be the king of combat sports are several ones; on one hand, it's closer to fully unrestricted unarmed combat and thus very "pure" and on the other hand - and this is the result of what i mentioned here - the fact that there's sooo much room for improvement, ways to victory, technique and things to happen just makes MMA more "whole" to me, if that makes sense; there are so many facets to MMA, that the picture of what MMA is, is so vast and can be so different from instance to instance!
With that increased level of complexity also comes also more room for error, making it such an unpredictable sport too, compared to other combat sports.
If a combat sport is simple (relatively speaking!) having great talent in terms of how you learn and execute movements and being athletic already gets you super far, even without being that much of a talent when it comes to decision-making/fight-IQ, whereas in MMA, the latter alone can be enough to beat people who excel in the former two, so by default, even the best fighters in MMA can all be drastically different from each other and i think that this is also a huge part of what makes the sport so amazing.
There's not as much of a "one size fits all"-approach and due to this, there's a place for every strength, be it physical, mental or tactical in MMA (and also a way to exploit every kind of weakness!).
One more thing that comes to my mind in regards to the "purest form of combat sports" argument: of course one doesn't need to care about these things, but i still place things that "work in real combat" higher than things you only get away with due to a certain rule-set; for example when Mayweather fought Conor, there were instances, where Mayweather just bent 90 degrees forward leaving his head right in front of Conor - this is something, you obviously wanna avoid in MMA, but especially in an "actual fight".
This is also the reason, why i love striking in MMA more; the gloves are smaller, requiring more caution, since bones in the hands break easier, but also making it far more difficult to block strikes (and easier to land strikes, once in range).
Honestly, i'd love bare knuckle MMA, where fighters would also use palm-strikes - that'd be the dopest shit ever to me, i think, haha.
Agree with your argument on the corruption, although i was mostly talking about the sports themselves "in a vacuum" which you also have acknowledged.
Last but not least, your criticism for my initial elitist comment is understandable and justified, but i also want to emphasize right now, that it also should be taken with a grain of salt.
It's a good thing people have the choice to do whatever combat sport they want and i understand and agree with what you've said about specialists as well.
It's a bit as it is with music; i think technical and well-written metal, classical music, etc. is better than the mainstream stuff, but it's still great that there are so many different genres and there's beauty to each one of them, imo.
Hope this helps!
@SteveColdStone tagging you also, since i figured you could be interested in my response.
This is exactly the kind of amazing response I expected from you and frankly the reason I voted for in Poster of the Year
Since you gave me such a comprehensive reply, I'll try to extend the courtesy of doing the same!
I can absolutely understand all of this and get behind it -- as it's the very same thing that draws me to MMA over boxing as well. However, as I mentioned before, I suspect that there's a lot of room for that same kind of fight IQ and and ring generalship in the sport of boxing that most MMA fans don't see, as it's at a more microscopic/behind-the-scenes level. I'm not sure if I'm articulating myself correctly. I have a friend on another forum who's an avid boxing historian and former amateur fighter/coach that would dive headfirst into this conversation I'm sure and probably explain it better than I ever could. Suffice it to say that I thing there's plenty of room in boxing for proverbial chess to be played inside the ring and for a number of different fighting styles to shine -- though I will wholeheartedly agree that the number of fighter "archetypes" will always be smaller than in MMA. In fact, that's one of the things I love most about MMA: the various walks of life fighters come from and how it shapes their "base", the way they fight, the gameplans they employ, etc. That's also the entire reason I have a selfish desire to see fighters like Edmen Shahbazyan and the like get derailed, but I digress...
For me, I won't say that I don't consider "real-world viability" at all, but it's not at the top of my list. At the end of the day, MMA is still a combat sport for me and I feel like constantly trying to make it more "authentic" is always going to be a losing battle in the face of entertainment and fighter safety. I've never felt like other combat sports necessarily have to justify themselves through the lens of authenticity, either -- limited-ruleset combat sports are about as old as civilization itself. However, it's a balance and sometimes I'll admit I end up feeling like a hypocrite -- for instance, there are times where I've often thought that maybe ONE has the right idea with allowing knees to head on the ground during some of the sprawl positions fighters end up in because they looked so damned artificial.
In any case, I certainly get where you're coming from and I know every fan's opinion on this differs. It's not like we're talking about tennis, after all. MMA is pretty much the closest you can get to competitive street fighting and in its infancy the UFC was all about seeing "what works". So I definitely understand your position on this, even if it differs (slightly) from my own.
Bareknuckle MMA would be interesting for sure. I've been known to watch knockdown karate matches on occasion and their knuckle conditioning routines are absurd (though, of course, Lethwei and BKFC are much better analogues for what it would end up looking like). Fully agreed about the palm strikes. I'm a sucker for any hand-strike that isn't a punch. I 100% geek out when a fighter throws any blow with his hand from a standing position that isn't a punch: hammerfist, backfist, palm-strike, ridge-hand, whatever. They're so rare. Dustin's hammerfists against the fence fighting Dan Hooker were a real treat.
As for the bolded part: I appreciate that, but nonetheless I feel I should apologize. My initial post(s) were a bit harsh and accusatory and did not give you a chance to explain your position, effectively putting words in your mouth. I'm sorry, as that was not my intention. I don't really have much else to say except that I agree with the rest of your post: more choice is always good in the market of punching people and to each their own, etc.
Thanks for the discussion, sherbro! It's been enlightening as always.
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