UFC Fan: "HTH Is Ferguson Below McGregor!?!" (New P4P Rankings)

[HomeRun916]

But the problem is this:

1. You are completely ignoring McGregor's dominant FW run where he was legit undefeated, knocked off a GOAT, and won the title. - sure he didn't defend it, but he moved up to fight for the LW title which many champions are scared or simply aren't willing to do.

2. McGregor DID win the LW title. And he only lost at LW / with the title on the line against Khabib who is undefeated and arguably in contention for the LW GOAT moniker.

3. Yes McGregor simply moves the needle for MONEY more than Tony does by a country mile and more than anyone else, so obviously he's going to get title shots if he wants them far easier than others, but in actuality the merit isn't far off from actually deserving it.

On top of all this ask yourself who is fighting for the LW title next? It's Tony Ferguson. So what's the issue here? Do you want to see Justin Gatheje or Kevin Lee get a title shot before McGregor? come on.

Yes there are double standards but fighting at 170 when both fighters agree to it is basically the same as fighting at 155 and if anything it gave Diaz and Cerrone an advantage, very clearly, over McGregor. They were both legit WWs prior to it, so what's the issue here?

TLDR POINT: Anderson Silva would have got an immediate title shot at 205 if he wanted it. Jon Jones could get an immediate title shot at HW if he wanted it. Are those double standards? Conor was the FW champ and wanted a LW title fight, RDA got hurt...and he eventually won the LW title from Alvarez. I don't see much of a double standard, I see a lot of fighters unwilling to move up a weight class.

That’s a lot of words to say Dana refused to let Jose Aldo move up to 155 to fight Pettis for the title, unless he relinquished the 145 title first.

 

[HP_Nut]

For the people defending Conor's ranking, usually rankings are based on more recent results, they are not about the entirety of his career. Conor is an elite fighter, but in the last 12 months he has only beaten Cowboy. In fact, it is Conor's only win in the last 3 yrs. Being winless in 3 yrs except 1 win over Cowboy (admittedly, I was impressed by how fast & easily Conor beat him), should not put you in the top 10 P4P. Keep in mind, Cowboy has spent most of his career at LW, you put him next to Usman & you will see the size difference. A guy like Usman is much wider, much more muscular. For some reason, some people seem to equate height with weight class. Cowboy might be the same height or maybe even taller than Usman, but he doesn't weigh more.

Conor has had an excellent career, but wins from over 3 yrs ago should not count towards rankings, usually they do not take those wins into consideration for other fighters

 

[blaseblah]

Because this is pound for pound and its based on overall acomplishments.

Its not the weight class ranking.

That is not what p4p means

 

[saminex]

why is masvidal on the p4p list? Bizzare

 

[tramendous]

P4p is a made up hypothetical to make you think conor mcgregor has higher fighting ability than yoel romero. So they can sell you more ppvs.

 

[old school 2]

P4p is a made up hypothetical to make you think conor mcgregor has higher fighting ability than yoel romero. So they can sell you more ppvs.

I guess he does because he wins championships instead of losing to a blown up WW like Bobby Knuckles.

 

[Koro_11]

Lol at taking any sherdog ranking seriously.

No one with a clue believes this, even sherdog doesn’t expect you to believe it. Those rankings are for newbs and casuals, and for incels who celebrate another mans wealth and popularity.

 

[Koro_11]

they fought at 170lbs..don't let what dana said, influence you....cerrone has had a decent amount of success at 170lbs...some would say more success at 170 than 155

You’ve been here for 13 years bro, have a little more respect for yourself seriously.

 

[mkess101]

In Conor’s defense, he won the FW title then also is 1-1 at LW (1 was a title win) and 2-1 at WW. Nate and Cowboy have fought at WW long before the McGregor fights and they have some decent wins at WW.

hence, a well deserved “pound for pound” consideration. Most other fighters in P4P don’t even fight above their weight like Conor actually does

But Nate and Cowboy fought more of their careers at LW than WW. These are fights where 2 LW's basically just agreed to fight at WW. Did Cowboy or Nate ever miss weight even once in a LW fight? I don't think we are talking about Conor beating actual WW's here...

 

[Katsushyro]

Lots of LWs on that ranking.

 

[mkess101]

McGregor fought Cerrone 6 months after Ferguson did. So cross off that win for Ferguson too by your logic.

I already gave you my points which you ignored. P4P = moving up in weight classes matters. Ferguson never has, McGregor did twice technically. Again another sherdogger blinded by his hate for McGregor, I swear a lot of you guys must watch pro wrestling or something just such simpletons falling for the "characters" of fighters outside the cage.

You can argue Ferguson above McGregor, sure I think its reasonable but Ferguson at 3 is a joke. Then McGregor should be 4th or 5th by that logic at minimum because it's close between them if McGregor isn't above Ferguson.

Almost getting flat-lined by a shitty Pettis and a shitty Vannata isn't a great look. And none of those guys were top tier at the time besides RDA who was maybe declining and off the juice, and Kevin Lee who isn't even that good. Sick 5 win streak over a bunch of mid-tier guys for the interim title shot for Lee. Thomson was a solid fighter but he was not a top tier LW, if you want to stretch it that bad let's call Nate Diaz an elite fighter too.

Ferguson fought Cowboy coming off 3 straight wins. Conor fought Cowboy coming off back to back stoppage losses. You have the right to think that doesn't matter and the win is equal, but most rational people are going to strongly disagree.

Ferguson has wins at WW too, you know that, right?

And your hyperbole of "almost getting flatlined" is great, except he won both of those fights. By stoppage. And while he was hurt momentarily, he was never truly close to being finished in either. Also...I'm confused about you saying he was on a "sick 5 win streak..." before fighting Lee. He had actually won 9 fights in a row prior to that fight.

And Thompson vs Nate comparison...I think we saw who the better LW was at the time. Tony beat him when Josh was still top 10 (coming off 2 losses yes, but split decisions and before that the KO of Nate).

Having said all that, I do realize that you said Tony over Conor is reasonable so obviously you're rational. As of this second, Tony is clearly above Conor to anyone with a shred of objectivity. It's fluid, that could change, but as of right now the guy with 12 wins in a row (9 finishes) and about half vs the top 10 is clearly above the guy who has 1 win in the last however long and is 3-2 in his last 5 fights. Both losses via stoppage, and one of his wins a razor close majority decision.

 

[TruthHurts001]

This is definitely worth getting upset about.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Ferguson fought Cowboy coming off 3 straight wins. Conor fought Cowboy coming off back to back stoppage losses. You have the right to think that doesn't matter and the win is equal, but most rational people are going to strongly disagree.

Ferguson has wins at WW too, you know that, right?

And your hyperbole of "almost getting flatlined" is great, except he won both of those fights. By stoppage. And while he was hurt momentarily, he was never truly close to being finished in either. Also...I'm confused about you saying he was on a "sick 5 win streak..." before fighting Lee. He had actually won 9 fights in a row prior to that fight.

And Thompson vs Nate comparison...I think we saw who the better LW was at the time. Tony beat him when Josh was still top 10 (coming off 2 losses yes, but split decisions and before that the KO of Nate).

Having said all that, I do realize that you said Tony over Conor is reasonable so obviously you're rational. As of this second, Tony is clearly above Conor to anyone with a shred of objectivity. It's fluid, that could change, but as of right now the guy with 12 wins in a row (9 finishes) and about half vs the top 10 is clearly above the guy who has 1 win in the last however long and is 3-2 in his last 5 fights. Both losses via stoppage, and one of his wins a razor close majority decision.

I said "sick 5 fight win streak" of Kevin Lee, not Ferguson. Lee's 5 fight streak to earn an interim title shot was kind of suspect imo.

Regardless Tony has had close fights and was dropped by Vannatta and Pettis, that's a fact. He still won those fights including the Lee fight which was close, so ultimately I guess it doesn't matter just as Mendes bodying McGregor early doesn't matter.

I am being objective, sorry I value the FW run + beating the GOAT at FW for the title + winning the LW title + fighting 3 time at WW ~sort of

over a 12 fight win streak* + an interim LW belt + not unifying the belt

Listen I like Tony Ferguson too so you're dead wrong about "objectivity" I'm a fan of both McGregor and Ferguson and I'm not some big fan of McGregor which everyone on Sherdog seems to assume of anyone not bashing him.

* = if we are going to go back that far then we need to count the loss to Michael Johnson right? and then the successive 5 wins against shitty to journeyman level compeittion in: Mike Rio, Kikuno, Castillo, Trujillo, Tibau. Then let's add Vannatta to the list, and personally I don't think Pettis or Cerrone are that great of wins either, regardless and no I don't think Cerrone losing to Tony and Gathje is a big factor really.

Cerrone was he was at that point, he already lost 3 straight at WW and never beat top flight guys and was pretty good otherwise.

Back to Ferguson, you say he fought at WW. That's very misleading imo...he fought once during a TUF finale against Nijem and that was his only 170 lb fight in the UFC, the rest is in other orgs which is irrelevant. If we are counting other orgs then McGregor was a two division champion in Ireland or something right?

To me the P4P list is based of skill. Who's actually the best right now, while trying to negate size being a factor. Obviously long layoffs hurt you which is why McGregor and Tony are both arguably lower than they should be, or could be. Tony has only fought 4 times since Nov. 2016.

TLDR: I value McGregor's wins and two belts in two divisions, and actually fighting in 3 divisions more legitimately, over Tony's 12 fight win streak where arguably half the wins are against meh competition.

 

[mkess101]

I said "sick 5 fight win streak" of Kevin Lee, not Ferguson. Lee's 5 fight streak to earn an interim title shot was kind of suspect imo.

Regardless Tony has had close fights and was dropped by Vannatta and Pettis, that's a fact. He still won those fights including the Lee fight which was close, so ultimately I guess it doesn't matter just as Mendes bodying McGregor early doesn't matter.

I am being objective, sorry I value the FW run + beating the GOAT at FW for the title + winning the LW title + fighting 3 time at WW ~sort of

over a 12 fight win streak* + an interim LW belt + not unifying the belt

Listen I like Tony Ferguson too so you're dead wrong about "objectivity" I'm a fan of both McGregor and Ferguson and I'm not some big fan of McGregor which everyone on Sherdog seems to assume of anyone not bashing him.

* = if we are going to go back that far then we need to count the loss to Michael Johnson right? and then the successive 5 wins against shitty to journeyman level compeittion in: Mike Rio, Kikuno, Castillo, Trujillo, Tibau. Then let's add Vannatta to the list, and personally I don't think Pettis or Cerrone are that great of wins either, regardless and no I don't think Cerrone losing to Tony and Gathje is a big factor really.

Cerrone was he was at that point, he already lost 3 straight at WW and never beat top flight guys and was pretty good otherwise.

Back to Ferguson, you say he fought at WW. That's very misleading imo...he fought once during a TUF finale against Nijem and that was his only 170 lb fight in the UFC, the rest is in other orgs which is irrelevant. If we are counting other orgs then McGregor was a two division champion in Ireland or something right?

To me the P4P list is based of skill. Who's actually the best right now, while trying to negate size being a factor. Obviously long layoffs hurt you which is why McGregor and Tony are both arguably lower than they should be, or could be. Tony has only fought 4 times since Nov. 2016.

TLDR: I value McGregor's wins and two belts in two divisions, and actually fighting in 3 divisions more legitimately, over Tony's 12 fight win streak where arguably half the wins are against meh competition.

None of that is crazy, but I don't value "winning belts" all that much when the UFC arbitrarily decides who fights for them. Conor was gifted a LW title shot after going 1-1 vs Nate Diaz (mind you a stoppage loss and a razor close majority dec win) based on his popularity. How many fights at LW had Tony won in a row when Conor skipped the line to get his LW title shot in a favorable matchup vs Eddie?

Conor's WW fights are 2 vs Nate and 1 vs Cowboy, both of whom have more LW fights (and as importantly never missed weight at LW, thus showing they were legit LW's and not giant guys forced to move up) than WW by far.

Sorry, misread the point about Lee. Thought that was about Tony.

The thing to me is...NOT losing really matters. Especially at the UFC level. It is REALLY hard to go 8 years and 12 fights without losing. Don't believe me? Check the HISTORY of the UFC. Find all of the 12 fight win streaks. List them here. How many guys do you think you are having to type? Belts are overvalued imo because the UFC will latch onto any chance they get to slide someone in who might sell. Derrick Lewis vs DC right off the top of my head. But winning 12 in a row? WAY shorter list than guys who have won a belt or 2...

 

[Sansnom]

Because this is pound for pound and its based on overall acomplishments.

Its not the weight class ranking.

If it's about overall accomplishments, then why isn't GSP or any of the all time greats on there?

Conor just won his first fight since 2016 against someone who's coming off 2 brutal losses.

These rankings are supposed to be current, so Conor has no business on there.

 

[Verace]

If it's about overall accomplishments, then why isn't GSP or any of the all time greats on there?

Conor just won his first fight since 2016 against someone who's coming off 2 brutal losses.

These rankings are supposed to be current, so Conor has no business on there.

I'm copy pasting something I've wrote to other user already itt:

Its a CURRENT list of p4p. Its a cross between the current weight class rankings and acomplishments.
Henry cejudo will be removed from the flyweight rankings, but his flyweight run will be considered when placing him in the p4p.
GSP is not currently in any weight class ranking therefore, not on the list.

It seems like my use of the word accomplishment has confused a lot of people.
I guess it would have been better if I said " skill + accomplishment".

Because if you look at Aaron Pico for example you may see tons of skill, but his record doesn't reflect it. You gotta show up. You gotta have the accomplishments to prove it

I understand what you are trying to say about Conor, but gsp came back, beat bisping and went right into the rankings again too. That's a little jenky indeed, but it is what it is.