PBP UFC Abu Dhabi Whittaker vs. De Ridder Official PBP Discussion: Sat 7/26 at 12pm ET

[Croaker]

Thing is, my point is actually related to how MMA fights are scores

Bisping tells everyone nearly every times there's an event and him and his colleagues have actually been through meetings on how MMA fights are scored in this current era.

If this was 10 or 20 years ago, RDR gets that round on control time. Under current scoring Rob gets it because he was one punch from a stoppage after putting him on his ass and blasting him on the floor. That's as close to a stoppage without actually getting one as you can be.

I dont believe anything anyone says about fight scoring. If the promoter wants someone to win, they win.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

Bonuses:
Muslim Salikhov -POTN
Steven Nguyen- POTN
Shara Magomedov vs Marc-Andre Barriault - FOTN

 

[Mask Of Winters]

I don't think this was fixed, but I think Hanlon's Razor can safely be retired in 2025. It's pretty evident that maliciousness is just as widespread as incompetence.

I KNEW there was a reason why you're one of my favorite posters here

I'd even take it a step further and say these days the incompetent people are the most malicious people as well for reasons that should be obvious to the SIPs here (Sane Intelligent People).

Yeah, the nickname's in progress. I'm still working on it.

 

[SuperAlly]

I dont believe anything anyone says about fight scoring. If the promoter wants someone to win, they win.

Which is fine and a separate point again

 

[Langinbang187]

Did you see the sig strike count at 25 seconds left in the 5 ?

Is 11 more than 10?

 

[HHJ]

Shara won a fight and Ankalaev's big rematch with Alex was announced and @HHJ is nowhere to be seen

Yeah I've been not on the forums as much in the last few weeks, but...

The promotion for this fight card was terrible, I literally never saw anything about this card anywhere until it was actually happening.

I had no idea Shara was fighting.

The rematch between Alex and Big Uncle Ank doesn't surprise me at all though. I knew they would work that out. Especially after Jiri signed in to fight Rountree.

 

[maximus__]

Incorrect, you're correct that he DOES move to an over/under, only after initially securing double hunderhooks, which he does numerous times in the fifth round that you just posted yourself.

"If Whittaker was moving forward with his jab, how could he be pressed against the cage" -- Because fighters change positions, literally all the time. Since your bias is seemingly so strong you were unable to witness RDR get his face punched in, I've decided to be kind enough to screenshot the most damaging strikes of the fifth round.

It is very important that we respect reality and let our clear bias take a back seat when discussing what has actually transpired during a fight. If you wish to continue to showcase ignorance I'll be happy to showcase how an individual(Whittaker) can land strikes and still end pressed against the fence despite landing strikes moving forward...it may be tough to believe, but one does not need to be moving forward to engage in the clinch.

Most importantly of all -- You fail miserably here with an argument from authority fallacy, my entire argument is AGAINST the judges decision, and you make my point perfectly for me showcasing their incompetence by pointing out that one of the judges scored round 4 for RDR despite Rob being "outlanded by double" -- You really didn't think this argument through before pressing send, huh?

At the end of the day you're an extremely biased individual who places significantly more emphasis on glancing, touching strikes and hugging as opposed to crisp, flush strikes off an individuals skull. You also cannot even be consistent enough in your own points as to go a single post without directly poking holes in your very own arguments, quite frankly you've done a better job at debunking your own arguments than I could ever do myself, particularly with that wonderful hit on Mr. Bell in round 4...well done!

No I actually posted the video that shows he uses the over under primarily landing offence from an overhook for 99% of entries. He only gets double underhooks 3 times the entire round. He doesn't hold him against the cage from there at all like you said he did. He uses it only if Rob if framing to push away. His preferred position to strike from is over the top. He doesn't pummel inside himself because he doesn't use that position. Rob on the other hand uses it to recover and holds himself against the cage to recover whenever RDR hits him and back him to the cage.

Bias? I wanted Rob to win. I am Australian. I am not going to make up that he won rounds though to justify it.

Screenshot? I put the video up. What damaging strikes? I pointed them out. The only person who took any damage in that round was Rob. He was bleeding from his mouth,nose and had the bridge of his nose cut. That was made worse after the sequences I mentioned in my previous post.

Look at their feet position when they take shots. RDR gets hit and remains in place or takes a slight step back to create space. Rob gets hit and retreats from one side of the cage to the other. That's the difference in the impact of their shots. RDR was hurting Rob, Rob wasn't hurting RDR.

Authority fallacy? Your argument is that Rob won round 5. Objectively the judges didn't even think he did. Mike Bell did what Mike bell does but that's why we have multiple judges. Mike Bell scoring the 4th incorrectly somehow means Whittaker wins a 5th round? Great argument there.

Maybe if you used less Chat GPT, you could string together a coherent argument. It just makes people look stupid that they need something to write for them.

 

[Langinbang187]

No I actually posted the video that shows he uses the over under primarily landing offence from an overhook for 99% of entries. He only gets double underhooks 3 times the entire round. He doesn't hold him against the cage from there at all like you said he did. He uses it only if Rob if framing to push away. His preferred position to strike from is over the top. He doesn't pummel inside himself because he doesn't use that position. Rob on the other hand uses it to recover and holds himself against the cage to recover whenever RDR hits him and back him to the cage.

Bias? I wanted Rob to win. I am Australian. I am not going to make up that he won rounds though to justify it.

Screenshot? I put the video up. What damaging strikes? I pointed them out. The only person who took any damage in that round was Rob. He was bleeding from his mouth,nose and had the bridge of his nose cut. That was made worse after the sequences I mentioned in my previous post.

Look at their feet position when they take shots. RDR gets hit and remains in place or takes a slight step back to create space. Rob gets hit and retreats from one side of the cage to the other. That's the difference in the impact of their shots. RDR was hurting Rob, Rob wasn't hurting RDR.

Authority fallacy? Your argument is that Rob won round 5. Objectively the judges didn't even think he did. Mike Bell did what Mike bell does but that's why we have multiple judges. Mike Bell scoring the 4th incorrectly somehow means Whittaker wins a 5th round? Great argument there.

Maybe if you used less Chat GPT, you could string together a coherent argument. It just makes people look stupid that they need something to write for them.

"He only gets double underhooks three times the entire round" Yeah, so in other words exactly as I stated, De Ridder had double underhooks numerous times during the round. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, and I proceeded to screenshot literal flush strikes landing on RDR's face since you chose to ignore the fact that they landed in the round, otherwise you would simply continue to pretend they didn't exist, I simply proved that they most certainly did, RDR landed nothing as flush as those two stiff jabs in round 5, this isn't really an opinion.

My argument is that Rob won the round because he was the superior striking who landed more damaging strikes in the round, your argument is that the judges scored the round for Rob.

Do judges ever get things wrong? By your own admission they scored a round incorrectly in this fight.

Just answer this question -- Do the three judges(or even two for that matter) ever get scoring incorrect from your POV? Stop obfuscating and incoherently rambling about ChatGPT and simply answer this with a yes or no.

 

[maximus__]

"He only gets double underhooks three times the entire round" Yeah, so in other words exactly as I stated, De Ridder had double underhooks numerous times during the round. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, and I proceeded to screenshot literal flush strikes landing on RDR's face since you chose to ignore the fact that they landed in the round, otherwise you would simply continue to pretend they didn't exist, I simply proved that they most certainly did, RDR landed nothing as flush as those two stiff jabs in round 5, this isn't really an opinion.

My argument is that Rob won the round because he was the superior striking who landed more damaging strikes in the round, your argument is that the judges scored the round for Rob.

Do judges ever get things wrong? By your own admission they scored a round incorrectly in this fight.

Just answer this question -- Do the three judges(or even two for that matter) ever get scoring incorrect from your POV? Stop obfuscating and incoherently rambling about ChatGPT and simply answer this with a yes or no.

No you didn't say he got double underhooks in the round. You specifically said that he used double underhooks to pin him against the cage. It's quoted a few posts back.

As I showed RDR doesn't do that, because he hasn't in any of his fights. He does his work from the over under position, using the over hook and a wrist grip to land his shots. You can't effectively strike from double unders. He has a judo background and uses that position in all his fights to chip away and take his opponent down with outside trips using his height. Go rewatch the Gerald Meerschart and Nickal fights. His offence comes from an over/under position or overhook and wrist control.

I said Rob landed jabs in the round. I even credited him with two great rear hand bodyshots (his actual best strikes in the round). A few single jabs and 2 single shot rear hands don't out do RDRs work. RDR landed the biggest shots in the sequence I mentioned. He landed a body knee and Rear hand that had Rob retreating from one side of the cage to the other, followed by another knee into the clinch. Those are impactful strikes and cause the only actual visual damage in that round.

My argument is that RDR outstruck, outgrappled and landed more in that round. RDR beat him everywhere in the 5th in an MMA context. Rob got backed up, landed single shots only and was the one who was actually holding on in the double underhook position, whilst RDR continued to work from there.

Yes judges get it wrong. This fight Mike bell scored the 4th for Rob. I already said I think that is wrong. At least he got the 5th right and the right fighter won. Imagine if he gave Rob the 5th and we got a 49-46 Whittaker scorecard in that fight... Would you be defending that?

 

[Langinbang187]

No you didn't say he got double underhooks in the round. You specifically said that he used double underhooks to pin him against the cage. It's quoted a few posts back.

As I showed RDR doesn't do that, because he hasn't in any of his fights. He does his work from the over under position, using the over hook and a wrist grip to land his shots. You can't effectively strike from double unders. He has a judo background and uses that position in all his fights to chip away and take his opponent down with outside trips using his height. Go rewatch the Gerald Meerschart and Nickal fights. His offence comes from an over/under position or overhook and wrist control.

I said Rob landed jabs in the round. I even credited him with two great rear hand bodyshots (his actual best strikes in the round). A few single jabs and 2 single shot rear hands don't out do RDRs work. RDR landed the biggest shots in the sequence I mentioned. He landed a body knee and Rear hand that had Rob retreating from one side of the cage to the other, followed by another knee into the clinch. Those are impactful strikes and cause the only actual visual damage in that round.

My argument is that RDR outstruck, outgrappled and landed more in that round. RDR beat him everywhere in the 5th in an MMA context. Rob got backed up, landed single shots only and was the one who was actually holding on in the double underhook position, whilst RDR continued to work from there.

Yes judges get it wrong. This fight Mike bell scored the 4th for Rob. I already said I think that is wrong. At least he got the 5th right and the right fighter won. Imagine if he gave Rob the 5th and we got a 49-46 Whittaker scorecard in that fight... Would you be defending that?

What do you mean? He did indeed get double underhooks multiple times, you just admitted as much. Not that this actually matters in the grand scheme of the debate, but I do get why you want to focus on semantics as opposed to the actual meat of the debate considering how things are going for you there. You said he didn't get double underhooks in the fifth, scroll up, it's right there.

"A few jabs don't outdo RDR's work" -- Well, when said jabs are more impactful than anything landed from a gassed De Ridder, they sure do. Damage is the main scoring criteria, those jabs were more damaging than anything RDR brought to the table in the fifth, as sad as that is.

Whittaker objectively landed the more impactful strikes in round 5, so I assume when you say "out striking" you're referring to to those miniscule little clinch strikes that did zero damage. Or...are you actually attempting to argue RDR was more effective at boxing/kickboxing at range? He objectively was less successful than Rob here, you're also fabricating events and exaggerating them significantly, Rob backed up RDR and landed stiff shots on more than one occasion, RDR responded by panic grappling to survive.

No, I don't think Rob won the fourth round, I think that would be a bad scorecard...which in competitive fights seems to transpire significantly more often than it should.

 

[maximus__]

What do you mean? He did indeed get double underhooks multiple times, you just admitted as much. Not that this actually matters in the grand scheme of the debate, but I do get why you want to focus on semantics as opposed to the actual meat of the debate considering how things are going for you there. You said he didn't get double underhooks in the fifth, scroll up, it's right there.

"A few jabs don't outdo RDR's work" -- Well, when said jabs are more impactful than anything landed from a gassed De Ridder, they sure do. Damage is the main scoring criteria, those jabs were more damaging than anything RDR brought to the table in the fifth, as sad as that is.

Whittaker objectively landed the more impactful strikes in round 5, so I assume when you say "out striking" you're referring to to those miniscule little clinch strikes that did zero damage. Or...are you actually attempting to argue RDR was more effective at boxing/kickboxing at range? He objectively was less successful than Rob here, you're also fabricating events and exaggerating them significantly, Rob backed up RDR and landed stiff shots on more than one occasion, RDR responded by panic grappling to survive.

No, I don't think Rob won the fourth round, I think that would be a bad scorecard...which in competitive fights seems to transpire significantly more often than it should.

You said "RDR threw great knees early in the fight, in the final round he merely used it as a distraction to get underhooks to survive the round."

Show me any sequences in the 5th where RDR is using underhooks to survive the round? I just showed the video of the 5th where the only times he grabs underhooks is to chase down Rob to land offence. RDR spent nearly all his clinch time in the over/under position on the cage landing shots or trying to grab a wrist grip to land offence, that's what I said. At no point was he "surviving" holding underhooks in that round. Rob was on the other hand to recover after shots from RDR. He spends 30 seconds staring up at the clock trying to recover after a body shot sequence.

Except they weren't. I literally showed you a multi strike sequence where RDR lands a knee, rear hand strike to the head and then follows Rob from one side of the cage to land another knee and enter the clinch. That sequence alone is more impactful than any shots landed by Rob. Rob's single shots achieved nothing besides some defensive space for him to recover. RDR's sequences of striking led to him landing 60+ extra strikes and stifling Rob's offence. That's how MMA is scored. The offensive fighter is rewarded. Without the big moment like the 3rd Rob didn't land enough to win the 5th.

No I have clarified multiple times I think RDRs work at range was equal or better than Rob's. Rob had some success early and then from 2 mins on RDR started walking him down. MMA striking is scored differently to boxing. Impact isn't just the power of the shots. Impact is your ability to use your offence to "diminish the energy, confidence and spirit of your opponent." RDR wins the impact criteria because his shots made Rob react and retreat when they landed. RDR gets hit and barely moves back, he does retreat but only a step. Rob gets hit and he literally retreats to the other side of the cage doing a full 180 at multiple times. When the striking numbers are that close and no damage, it gives the advantage to RDR. That's before we even take into account the 60+ strikes against the cage whilst Rob just sat there. Rob needed a big shot like the 3rd to overcome the fact he was landing single shots going backwards and getting out worked.

Thank god we can agree on that 4th round.

 

[Langinbang187]

You said "RDR threw great knees early in the fight, in the final round he merely used it as a distraction to get underhooks to survive the round."

Bobby was the one with the underhook in the 5th... RDR did his work with the Whizzer/Over hook and head position.

He just did a podcast with Mighty mouse where he mentioned he uses the overhook position because of his height.

Bobby held on in the clinch. RDR was landing offence and trying to wrestle. You watched a different fight.

11 Jabs don't mean more than what RDR landed and that's before we go into the clinch portion. 11-9 sig strikes with RDRs leading to more offence against the cage.

This isn't boxing, a jab going backwards doesn't score more than someone using body shots to enter the clinch, hold that position and then land repeated shots and takedown attempts. It's MMA and is scored as such.

So much damage...

View attachment 1105934

me any sequences in the 5th where RDR is using underhooks to survive the round? I just showed the video of the 5th where the only times he grabs underhooks is to chase down Rob to land offence. RDR spent nearly all his clinch time in the over/under position on the cage landing shots or trying to grab a wrist grip to land offence, that's what I said. At no point was he "surviving" holding underhooks in that round. Rob was on the other hand to recover after shots from RDR. He spends 30 seconds staring up at the clock trying to recover after a body shot sequence.

Except they weren't. I literally showed you a multi strike sequence where RDR lands a knee, rear hand strike to the head and then follows Rob from one side of the cage to land another knee and enter the clinch. That sequence alone is more impactful than any shots landed by Rob. Rob's single shots achieved nothing besides some defensive space for him to recover. RDR's sequences of striking led to him landing 60+ extra strikes and stifling Rob's offence. That's how MMA is scored. The offensive fighter is rewarded. Without the big moment like the 3rd Rob didn't land enough to win the 5th.

No I have clarified multiple times I think RDRs work at range was equal or better than Rob's. Rob had some success early and then from 2 mins on RDR started walking him down. MMA striking is scored differently to boxing. Impact isn't just the power of the shots. Impact is your ability to use your offence to "diminish the energy, confidence and spirit of your opponent." RDR wins the impact criteria because his shots made Rob react and retreat when they landed. RDR gets hit and barely moves back, he does retreat but only a step. Rob gets hit and he literally retreats to the other side of the cage doing a full 180 at multiple times. When the striking numbers are that close and no damage, it gives the advantage to RDR. That's before we even take into account the 60+ strikes against the cage whilst Rob just sat there. Rob needed a big shot like the 3rd to overcome the fact he was landing single shots going backwards and getting out worked.

Thank god we can agree on that 4th round.

I don't need to showcase you that exact moment, in fact even if I were to concede that he utilized an over under as opposed to an under primarily, it wouldn't change an iota regarding his Wall n Stall...and more importantly it wouldn't change the fact that you said stated Bobby was the one with double underhooks, as in De Ridder never had underhooks at any point, you then conceded De Ritter had double under hooks several times during the round after re-watching the round. De Ritter was even more gassed than Rob, the man was literally doing full spins in the final 2 rounds simply trying to throw punches...he had zero zip on his shots in the fifth, Bobby still had a little pop, that's the difference on my scorecard, one guy did a little damage, one guy did a little less damage in a rather uneventful round between two gassed fighters.

Again you're back to placing emphasis on 3 inch strikes that do not accumulate damage...the UFC is scored first and foremost upon damage, that is objectively the #1 scoring criteria, this is fighting by a game of patty cake.

You contradict yourself again when talking about striking from range -- Rob outlanded RDR from range in the third round(dominated in regards to head strikes), yet you still believe RDR won the round, despite the numbers showcasing otherwise, it just doesn't make sense man.

Answer me this again -- If you clinch me against the fence and land 85 stomps, shoulder strikes against the fence that accumulate zero damage and put me in zero trouble at any point over the course of 4 minutes...I break loose and proceed to hit you with an over hand right that makes you do the chicken dance and visibly dazes you, but you still end up technically out landing me let's say 100-25 with the general striking being close, ...who do you score the round for?

 

[maximus__]

I don't need to showcase you that exact moment, in fact even if I were to concede that he utilized an over under as opposed to an under primarily, it wouldn't change an iota regarding his Wall n Stall...and more importantly it wouldn't change the fact that you said stated Bobby was the one with double underhooks, as in De Ridder never had underhooks at any point, you then conceded De Ritter had double under hooks several times during the round after re-watching the round. De Ritter was even more gassed than Rob, the man was literally doing full spins in the final 2 rounds simply trying to throw punches...he had zero zip on his shots in the fifth, Bobby still had a little pop, that's the difference on my scorecard, one guy did a little damage, one guy did a little less damage in a rather uneventful round between two gassed fighters.

Again you're back to placing emphasis on 3 inch strikes that do not accumulate damage...the UFC is scored first and foremost upon damage, that is objectively the #1 scoring criteria, this is fighting by a game of patty cake.

You contradict yourself again when talking about striking from range -- Rob outlanded RDR from range in the third round(dominated in regards to head strikes), yet you still believe RDR won the round, despite the numbers showcasing otherwise, it just doesn't make sense man.

Answer me this again -- If you clinch me against the fence and land 85 stomps, shoulder strikes against the fence that accumulate zero damage and put me in zero trouble at any point over the course of 4 minutes...I break loose and proceed to hit you with an over hand right that makes you do the chicken dance and visibly dazes you, but you still end up technically out landing me let's say 100-25 with the general striking being close, ...who do you score the round for?

You can't show case the exact moment because RDR never pinned him against the cage with double underhooks. I put up the video and showed Rob holding on against the cage with double unders because he is the only one who did. It's after the sequence where RDR hurt him. Rob is staring up at the clock with 1 min to go recovering. You said RDR was stalling from there and holding on, but that was Rob.

Your example is my argument for why RDR won that round before we even count the clinch strikes. Rob landed single shots at range. RDR landed a combination that included a knee and rear hand strike that had Rob hurt enough he ran from one side of the cage to the other. RDR then threw another knee that allowed him into the clinch before he landed those body shots.

So you want to give it to Rob because he landed 2 extra single sig shots that did no damage, but ignore RDR actually landing a combination which had Rob running backwards, bleeding from his mouth and bridge of his nose? Rob ran from one side of the cage to the other, dropped his hands low to his body and conceded the clinch position to recover after that sequence. That's the most impactful striking sequence in the round. RDR is the only one that caused anything resembling a fight ending sequence.

We seem to agree on how it should be scored, but for some reason you keep ignoring a sequence I am pointing out that happened on the feet and going back to the clinch argument. I said multiple times I think RDR won without even taking the volume clinch work into account. That seals the round for him, but my argument is he won without the volume based off the 9-11 sig strike count with RDRs above sequence beating anything Whittaker did in that round.

 

[Langinbang187]

You can't show case the exact moment because RDR never pinned him against the cage with double underhooks. I put up the video and showed Rob holding on against the cage with double unders because he is the only one who did. It's after the sequence where RDR hurt him. Rob is staring up at the clock with 1 min to go recovering. You said RDR was stalling from there and holding on, but that was Rob.

Your example is my argument for why RDR won that round before we even count the clinch strikes. Rob landed single shots at range. RDR landed a combination that included a knee and rear hand strike that had Rob hurt enough he ran from one side of the cage to the other. RDR then threw another knee that allowed him into the clinch before he landed those body shots.

So you want to give it to Rob because he landed 2 extra single sig shots that did no damage, but ignore RDR actually landing a combination which had Rob running backwards, bleeding from his mouth and bridge of his nose? Rob ran from one side of the cage to the other, dropped his hands low to his body and conceded the clinch position to recover after that sequence. That's the most impactful striking sequence in the round. RDR is the only one that caused anything resembling a fight ending sequence.

We seem to agree on how it should be scored, but for some reason you keep ignoring a sequence I am pointing out that happened on the feet and going back to the clinch argument. I said multiple times I think RDR won without even taking the volume clinch work into account. That seals the round for him, but my argument is he won without the volume based off the 9-11 sig strike count with RDRs above sequence beating anything Whittaker did in that round.

I don't need to, I already showcased in screenshots and forced you to concede that RDR initiated the clinch and did indeed have double underhooks on multiple occasions after as I just showcased -- which you previously stated only Whittaker did. Be it underhooks or over\under, it changed absolutely nothing in regards to my scoring of the round, the man didn't inflict as much damage in the round, point blank.

I'm going to need to see video evidence of this knee that hurt Rob and sent him running across the octagon, I've re-watched numerous times and I'm simply not seeing it. I count one one in the round that I would classify as significant from RDR, with an argument to be made for two over the course of 5 minutes, with Rob landing closer to 10 flush strikes that could certainly be argued to be significant.

Whittakers nose and mouth was bleeding in round 2, pouring in round 3, that wasn't new damage that transpired in round 5.

 

[maximus__]

I don't need to, I already showcased in screenshots and forced you to concede that RDR initiated the clinch and did indeed have double underhooks on multiple occasions after as I just showcased -- which you previously stated only Whittaker did. Be it underhooks or over\under, it changed absolutely nothing in regards to my scoring of the round, the man didn't inflict as much damage in the round, point blank.

I'm going to need to see video evidence of this knee that hurt Rob and sent him running across the octagon, I've re-watched numerous times and I'm simply not seeing it. I count one one in the round that I would classify as significant from RDR, with an argument to be made for two over the course of 5 minutes, with Rob landing closer to 10 flush strikes that could certainly be argued to be significant.

Whittakers nose and mouth was bleeding in round 2, pouring in round 3, that wasn't new damage that transpired in round 5.

You said he held on with underhooks to survive. I pointed out that didn't happen and the only times we saw RDR using an underhook was with Rob retreating. 3x in the whole round for a dew seconds at best. That's not holding on surviving with underhooks.
I pointed out that his offence came of the over hook position. Rob did hold on with underhooks to survive. Wrong fighter using underhooks...

I already put up the video of the 5th, I specifically pointed out the timing of the sequence I mentioned. RDR lands a knee that lowers Robs hands, leading to him landing up top as Rob retreats from one side of the cage to the other. Rob backs up so much he gets pinned against the cage and RDR comes in with anbother knee and enters the clinch. The sequence occurs between 1;30 to 1:00 min to go in the round.

So you conceed Rob had the damage? So where did this damage to RDR come from? Still trying to find it.

2 extra single shots aren't enough with no damage, when you get hurt and back up the majority of a round. That's before we include the time against the cage and the 60+ strikes there,

 

[Langinbang187]

You said he held on with underhooks to survive. I pointed out that didn't happen and the only times we saw RDR using an underhook was with Rob retreating. 3x in the whole round for a dew seconds at best. That's not holding on surviving with underhooks.
I pointed out that his offence came of the over hook position. Rob did hold on with underhooks to survive. Wrong fighter using underhooks...

I already put up the video of the 5th, I specifically pointed out the timing of the sequence I mentioned. RDR lands a knee that lowers Robs hands, leading to him landing up top as Rob retreats from one side of the cage to the other. Rob backs up so much he gets pinned against the cage and RDR comes in with anbother knee and enters the clinch. The sequence occurs between 1;30 to 1:00 min to go in the round.

So you conceed Rob had the damage? So where did this damage to RDR come from? Still trying to find it.

2 extra single shots aren't enough with no damage, when you get hurt and back up the majority of a round. That's before we include the time against the cage and the 60+ strikes there,

You said that Whittaker was the one engaging in underhooks, directly implying that he was the only fighter to engage in underhooks over the course of the round, objectively incorrect. I literally just re-posted the comment bro, do I need to do it again? Lol.


The only knee I'm seeing in that timeframe is this knee with 1:05 left in the round that was blocked with Whittakers arm, are you sure that you aren't confusing the timeframe? There's absolutely no knee to the body that lands flush at any point during the frame you just laid out, I just went back and re-watched several times.

What do you mean I concede Rob "had the damage"...there's nothing to concede, I've never argued RDR did not accumulate damage over the course of rounds 1-4, I've argued that he didn't accumulate significant damage in round 5, Rob landed the more significant strikes of the round and thus should have been awarded the 5th round. The blood coming from his mouth and nose is from earlier rounds, ironically primarily the second round where Rob dropped RDR and had him half conscious, won the round.

Picture of "knee that hurt Rob" being blocked by Whittakers arm/elbow directly below :

 

[maximus__]

You said that Whittaker was the one engaging in underhooks, directly implying that he was the only fighter to engage in underhooks over the course of the round, objectively incorrect. I literally just re-posted the comment bro, do I need to do it again? Lol.


The only knee I'm seeing in that timeframe is this knee with 1:05 left in the round that was blocked with Whittakers arm, are you sure that you aren't confusing the timeframe? There's absolutely no knee to the body that lands flush at any point during the frame you just laid out, I just went back and re-watched several times.

What do you mean I concede Rob "had the damage"...there's nothing to concede, I've never argued RDR did not accumulate damage over the course of rounds 1-4, I've argued that he didn't accumulate significant damage in round 5, Rob landed the more significant strikes of the round and thus should have been awarded the 5th round. The blood coming from his mouth and nose is from earlier rounds, ironically primarily the second round where Rob dropped RDR and had him half conscious, won the round.

Picture of "knee that hurt Rob" being blocked by Whittakers arm/elbow directly below :

Rob holds the double underhook position for over 75 seconds of that fight giving RDR that control time.
RDR holds it for a second 3x... Only one fighter is holding on with underhooks to survive and it isn;t RDR.


RDR lands a body knee(1;24 listen to the noise from Rob as it lands), a jab (1;19 as Rob is recovering) a big overhand ( at 1:14 thanks commentary team) and the knee you just mentioned before wait for it... Rob grabs double unders to survive.
Rob starts on the opposite side of the cage and circles all the way to the screenshot you just put up.

Speaking of damage, look at the bridge of Robs nose at the screenshot you showed. Play it live. Rob had no cut prior and it happens during the entry to that sequence. He either caught him with the glancing shot prior or it opens as RDR enters into that knee. We finally found the damage in that round.

You really going to ignore 3 shots prior to argue your point ? You can't hear the shots, see the reaction or hear the commentary team ?
Why did Rob go from one side of the cage and back himself against the wall after landing his two best strikes of the round being the rear body shots?
It's almost like he got hurt by that first knee or something...

 

[Langinbang187]

Rob holds the double underhook position for over 75 seconds of that fight giving RDR that control time.
RDR holds it for a second 3x... Only one fighter is holding on with underhooks to survive and it isn;t RDR.


RDR lands a body knee(1;24 listen to the noise from Rob as it lands), a jab (1;19 as Rob is recovering) a big overhand ( at 1:14 thanks commentary team) and the knee you just mentioned before wait for it... Rob grabs double unders to survive.
Rob starts on the opposite side of the cage and circles all the way to the screenshot you just put up.

Speaking of damage, look at the bridge of Robs nose at the screenshot you showed. Play it live. Rob had no cut prior and it happens during the entry to that sequence. He either caught him with the glancing shot prior or it opens as RDR enters into that knee. We finally found the damage in that round.

You really going to ignore 3 shots prior to argue your point ? You can't hear the shots, see the reaction or hear the commentary team ?
Why did Rob go from one side of the cage and back himself against the wall after landing his two best strikes of the round being the rear body shots?
It's almost like he got hurt by that first knee or something...

Completely and totally irrelevant. You stated one fighter achieved the underhook position, that simply isn't reality. I have no idea why you can't just concede the point and move on.

You just completely and totally misrepresented multiple events during the sequence. RDR lands a solid knee to begin, then he lands an okay jab(nothing behind it but it lands nice), he then proceeds to throw a sloppy looping overhand that partially lands(at best) with little to no weight behind it. From here Whittaker lands a solid body punch, De Ritter misses with another sloppy, telegraphed overhand right, attempts a knee which Rob blocks with his arm and then DE RITTER initiates the clinch, presses Whittaker against the fence with one over hook and one arm pressed behind Whittaker against the fence, Whittaker then gets underhooks as De Ritter proceeds to press him against the fence for the next 15 or so seconds before Rob spins off and escapes the clinch, immediately behind pressing RDR who is visibly completely drained, stumbling around the octagon, desperately shooting extremely telegraphed shots as Rob lands a looping overhand on the forehead of RDR, partially lands another overhand and RDR then ducks into a kick from Rob, Rob then lands a pretty stiff jab to RDR's temple, from here the exhausted RDR achieves an underhook, presses Whittaker against the fence to survive the remaining 15 or so seconds of the fight.

Rob 110% had a cut on his nose prior to that sequence, it wasn't a new cut, it simply started to bleed again. I provided a picture of the cut in the previous round for evidence as well as screenshots to showcase you simply misrepresented reality in an attempt to prove a point, this is once again why I've accused you of bias against Rob, the things you state simply do not reflect objective reality man.

Your timeline regarding the knee is also all sorts of messed up, RDR lands a jab and Whittakers circles out and utilizes foot work looking for a counter as RDR marches forward attempting to land some offense to close out the fight, the idea that an individual needs to be "hurt" to get pressed up against the fence is again just silly, if RDR truly believed he had Whittaker stunned there isn't a ton of logic behind initiating a clinch and proceeding to fire off exactly zero significanct strikes for the next 15-20 seconds of the round lol...as far as the commentary: They get details wrong all the time, it's extremely easy when watching live time...this is why we have replays that showcase what transpired that we may have missed -- Just like that so called "big overhand" you keep mentioning that barely glanced Bobby, objectively.

All you had to say was RDR landed a decent knee at that specific mark and end it there and I would concur with that, it was a decent strike...I also think the jab was solid...but then you go completely off the rails regarding a phantom big overhand right that landed, blatantly lying about Rob not having a cut on the bridge of his nose and then proceeding lie about Rob initiating the clinch, all of which are complete fabrications and completely and totally debunked directly below with screenshots of each event you lied about.

I'm trying to keep things relatively good faith here but you've pretty much made that impossible at this point.

 

[Langinbang187]

Rob holds the double underhook position for over 75 seconds of that fight giving RDR that control time.
RDR holds it for a second 3x... Only one fighter is holding on with underhooks to survive and it isn;t RDR.


RDR lands a body knee(1;24 listen to the noise from Rob as it lands), a jab (1;19 as Rob is recovering) a big overhand ( at 1:14 thanks commentary team) and the knee you just mentioned before wait for it... Rob grabs double unders to survive.
Rob starts on the opposite side of the cage and circles all the way to the screenshot you just put up.

Speaking of damage, look at the bridge of Robs nose at the screenshot you showed. Play it live. Rob had no cut prior and it happens during the entry to that sequence. He either caught him with the glancing shot prior or it opens as RDR enters into that knee. We finally found the damage in that round.

You really going to ignore 3 shots prior to argue your point ? You can't hear the shots, see the reaction or hear the commentary team ?
Why did Rob go from one side of the cage and back himself against the wall after landing his two best strikes of the round being the rear body shots?
It's almost like he got hurt by that first knee or something...

Here is the cut that in round 4 that you claim "didn't exist" prior to that "sequence" with 75 seconds left in the right as well as the jab, overhand landed by Rob(upon watching the replay it's actually a right hook) to close out the fifth round.

The only significant new physical damage in that round was RDR's temple swelling up.

I think Bobby won the fight with that nasty spinning wheel kick he landed flush at the buzzer personally.

 

[maximus__]

Completely and totally irrelevant. You stated one fighter achieved the underhook position, that simply isn't reality. I have no idea why you can't just concede the point and move on.

You just completely and totally misrepresented multiple events during the sequence. RDR lands a solid knee to begin, then he lands an okay jab(nothing behind it but it lands nice), he then proceeds to throw a sloppy looping overhand that partially lands(at best) with little to no weight behind it. From here Whittaker lands a solid body punch, De Ritter misses with another sloppy, telegraphed overhand right, attempts a knee which Rob blocks with his arm and then DE RITTER initiates the clinch, presses Whittaker against the fence with one over hook and one arm pressed behind Whittaker against the fence, Whittaker then gets underhooks as De Ritter proceeds to press him against the fence for the next 15 or so seconds before Rob spins off and escapes the clinch, immediately behind pressing RDR who is visibly completely drained, stumbling around the octagon, desperately shooting extremely telegraphed shots as Rob lands a looping overhand on the nose of RDR, partially lands another overhand, then lands a pretty stiff jab to RDR's temple, from here the exhausted RDR achieves an underhook, presses Whittaker against the fence to survive the remaining 15 or so seconds of the fight.

Rob 110% had a cut on his nose prior to that sequence, it wasn't a new cut, it simply started to bleed again. I provided a picture of the cut in the previous round for evidence as well as screenshots to showcase you simply misrepresented reality in an attempt to prove a point, this is once again why I've accused you of bias against Rob, the things you state simply do not reflect objective reality man.

Your timeline regarding the knee is also all sorts of messed up, RDR lands a jab and Whittakers circles out and utilizes foot work looking for a counter as RDR marches forward attempting to land some offense to close out the fight, the idea that an individual needs to be "hurt" to get pressed up against the fence is again just silly, if RDR truly believed he had Whittaker stunned there isn't a ton of logic behind initiating a clinch and proceeding to fire off exactly zero significanct strikes for the next 15-20 seconds of the round lol...as far as the commentary: They get details wrong all the time, it's extremely easy when watching live time...this is why we have replays that showcase what transpired that we may have missed -- Just like that so called "big overhand" you keep mentioning that barely glanced Bobby, objectively.

All you had to say was RDR landed a decent knee at that specific mark and end it there and I would concur with that, it was a decent strike...I also think the jab was solid...but then you go completely off the rails regarding a phantom big overhand right that landed, blatantly lying about Rob not having a cut on the bridge of his nose and then proceeding lie about Rob initiating the clinch, all of which are complete fabrications and completely and totally debunked directly below with screenshots of each event you lied about.

I'm trying to keep things relatively good faith here but you've pretty much made that impossible at this point.

No it isn't. My post was in response to you saying RDR (it's De Ridder) was surviving against the cage with under hooks. Rob was in fact the person holding the underhooks positions to survive. That's why I took an issue with what you said. De Ridder uses a different position to attack offensively due to his size. Look at his other fights, same thing. Onlyh fight he spent any time there is Bo Nickal but he transitioned to an overhook and wrist control(like this fight) to land his offence.

Misrepresent? You completely ignored the sequence initially. It's the longest combination of strikes in the entire round... Rob is moving backwards from that knee, drops his hands after with the jab landing before circling away to continue to recover with RDR landing the overhand (it's here the overhand landed) because Rob is reacting to the other shots.We get a glancing overhand that may have opened the cut before we finally get the knee (you magically could find) as Rob runs out of room to retreat and RDR catches him moving into the clinch, with Rob surviving the sequence by holding on with double unders.

It's a 4+ strike combo that moves from one side of the cage to the other. It's more significant than anything Rob lands in that round. RDR has him retreating, hurt and gets to the position he wants and even causes visible damage as you said reopening the cut. It's fine but magically reopens whilst he isn't getting hit apparently. It's almost like RDR caused that during that seuwnce that you magically missed because it's the most significant of the round.

Whittaker utilizes footwork? he is tripping over his own feet and gets caught 3x because of it. It's because he just got kneed, jab and then hit with an overhand. In comparison RDR literally gets hit with 2 bodyshots prior and takes less than a step back. Rob is reacting to the shots of RDR. Rob is the one who is holding on to survive grabbing the underhooks. Rob is the one surviving with the clinch, RDR is working to do damage from there.We get to this position at 1:03. There is still 1 min left of the fight, not 15 secs...

Good faith? You couldn't find the only 4 strike sequence in the round during 30 secs before I pointed it out second by second. Robs best shots are just prior to it being the bodyshots. I gave him full credit for them and managed to find them, but somehow you conveniently ignored the most significant and longest combination of the round because it goes against your position.