International Tucker Carlson in Russia to interview Vladimir Putin UPDATE - Also Dugin

[Chad R. Thundercock]

that's it? i said one thing about the guy and now i'm his biggest fan? and my post clearly states that most US president would be capable of giving a proper presentation of their country's history - 35 out of 45, since i stopped at FDR and went with the assumption that anyone before him would be capable of speaking about the history of the country in a competent manner.

You really should stop and think before just jumping into writing stuff you just wrote.

Would or wouldn't?

And what's the point of making such comparison between Putin and US presidents? To demonstrate his superiority in reciting history that was obviously skewed in Russia's favor?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Would or wouldn't?

And what's the point of making such comparison between Putin and US presidents? To demonstrate his superiority in reciting history that was obviously skewed in Russia's favor?

Would be capable.

The point is discussion a current event. How is that difficult to understand?

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Would be capable.

The point is discussion a current event. How is that difficult to undersQuran?

I understand, but there's really nothing to laud here about Putin. He's a liar, a manipulator, and most importantly, a war criminal.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I understand, but there's really nothing to laud here about Putin. He's a liar, a manipulator, and most importantly, a war criminal.

Fine. But your statement about me being pro-Putin is stupid. I knew you as a smarter guy than that, don't be like a lot of these screaming clowns around here that can't judge any type of nuance.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

The circular logic that you automatically side with someone so obviously evil and crazy just because you have the ability to recognize or acknowledge this person's ability to (insert whatever) doenst mean that you're a fan or support them. This absolutist form of debate is pathetic and juvenile, one I'd expect from a teenager or adolescent. Do any of you have the ability to leave your high-school mentality behind? I experienced it with my own mother in law (she's in her 60s) when she found out that my wife got the covid jab, but I didn't. Her first reaction was 'What is he, some right wing, Trump supporting QANONer?' At this point I didn't even know what QANON was so it took me a bit to realize she was calling me a crazed CT. This is the same woman who forwards the annual fake Facebook 'protect your privacy' by copying/pasting the statement that you don't consent to sharing your personal info.

 

[44nutman]

The circular logic that you automatically side with someone so obviously evil and crazy just because you have the ability to recognize or acknowledge this person's ability to (insert whatever) doenst mean that you're a fan or support them. This absolutist form of debate is pathetic and juvenile, one I'd expect from a teenager or adolescent. Do any of you have the ability to leave your high-school mentality behind? I experienced it with my own mother in law (she's in her 60s) when she found out that my wife got the covid jab, but I didn't. Her first reaction was 'What is he, some right wing, Trump supporting QANONer?' At this point I didn't even know what QANON was so it took me a bit to realize she was calling me a crazed CT. This is the same woman who forwards the annual fake Facebook 'protect your privacy' by copying/pasting the statement that you don't consent to sharing your personal info.

Knd of funny because Trump is vaxxed and boosted, took money from Pfizer, plus fast tracked the vaccine with operation Warpspeed.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

Knd of funny because Trump is vaxxed and boosted, took money from Pfizer, plus fast tracked the vaccine with operation Warpspeed.

That was my first thought before I Googled what QANON was.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

And was one of those left leaning liberals who was adamant that she would never partake in a vaccine pushed by trump.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

And was one of those left leaning liberals who was adamant that she would never partake in a vaccine pushed by trump.

I thought about this. If Trump was ultra pro vaccine and masking and social distancing, would the left have been antivaxx? Would we have gotten celebrity Vax resistance videos?

 

[AWilder]

I thought about this. If Trump was ultra pro vaccine and masking and social distancing, would the left have been antivaxx? Would we have gotten celebrity Vax resistance videos?

This is why the right wing is so fucked up. You guys think the "others" are just as bad as you guys. You have this retarded binary logic to every scenario with zero nuance.

 

[44nutman]

I thought about this. If Trump was ultra pro vaccine and masking and social distancing, would the left have been antivaxx? Would we have gotten celebrity Vax resistance videos?

The funny part is Trump cant even campaign on fast tracking the Vax. The one time he tried to do it, he got boo'ed. He used to mention that he got the Pfizer and stopped doing that as well.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

The funny part is Trump cant even campaign on fast tracking the Vax. The one time he tried to do it, he got boo'ed. He used to mention that he got the Pfizer and stopped doing that as well.

is the vax still a campaign issue in 2024? wow

 

[HOLA]

its not even history, it's just made up bullshit.

Underneath all the bullshit, what's going on in Ukraine is nothing more than an old-fashioned war of imperialism, in the same tradition as what happened during Soviet times and the Russian empire before that. Ukraine has always been an important part of Russian imperial ambitions, but it's definitely not always been a part of Russia.
When Cossacks in what is a large part of modern Ukraine swore allegiance to the Tsar in the 1650's, they weren't thinking in ethnic terms. They didn't consider each other "brothers" or whatever. The "tradition" of "Kyivan Rus" existed in only a few handwritten chronicles most people had no familiarity with.

It had already been 4 centuries of different political and cultural conditions at that point, between The Ukraine and Moscow, and the 1650's was already a long time ago. The two sides needed interpreters to understand each other.

Former Mongolian President shares a photo of Mongolia historic map, which is fucking hilarious.
maybe England should invade India.

https://x.com/elbegdorj/status/1757276598192279839?s=46

Excellent. Let the Golden Horde run wild through Russia once again! That was more recent than the Kyivan Rus too. The Mongol elites intermarried extensively within the Russian nobility too. In fact, it used to be a point of pride for Russian rulers to claim descent from Mongols, and many of them were. For example:

Ivan the Terrible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ivan Vasilyevich was the first son of Vasili III by his second wife, Elena Glinskaya. Vasili's mother, Sophia Palaiologina, was an Eastern Roman princess and a member of the Byzantine Palaiologos family. She was a daughter of Thomas Palaiologos, the younger brother of the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI Palaiologos (r. 1449–1453).[20] Elena's mother was a Serbian princess and her father's family, the Glinski clan (nobles based in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania), claimed descent both from Orthodox Hungarian nobles and the Mongol ruler Mamai (1335–1380).[21][22][23][24]

 

[HOLA]

Imagine being Tucker and having the biggest interview of his lifetime, and not asking a single hard question. Didn’t even ask why it’s called a “Special military operation” and not “war”

Tucker is about as pathetic as it gets.

If Tucker was a legitimate journalist Putin wouldn't be using him as a useful idiot; instead, he'd be throwing him out of a window or poisoning him with some radioactive material.

 

[Fluffernutter]

This is why the right wing is so fucked up. You guys think the "others" are just as bad as you guys. You have this retarded binary logic to every scenario with zero nuance.

Not to put words in @Fox by the Sea 's mouth. But, I believe his comment was regarding just how tribalistic our country has become.

Political beliefs change based upon whether or not your "team" is making political decisions.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Well since the issue of Putin holding a history lesson for half an hour was one of the things that came out of this interview, which of the american presidents do you think could speak in serious detail about the american history all the way back to 1776? i might take it all the way to 1492 but then the number of Yes's would be smaller.

My guesses:

Biden- No
Trump - No
Obama - No
Bush Jr - No
Clinton - Maybe....
Bush Sr - Yes
Reagan - No
Carter - No
Nixon - Yes
Johnson - No
Kennedy - No
Eisenhower - Yes
Truman - No
FDR - Yes


i'm stopping here because it's close to the time when presidents might have had grandparents that were actively involved in the independence war, so thinking they could speak about the 150 or so year history would not be that difficult.

What Putin did was regurgitate a historical narrative rife with conflations, omissions, and favorable framing that is congruent with his agenda and so by that standard pretty much all of those presidents could've done that except Trump and maybe Bush Jr and Biden. Even those last three could pull it off with enough prep.

 

[HOLA]

well that's embarrassing, you are a liar or you didn't watch it and are a liar.

Putin: After World War II, Ukraine received, in addition to the lands that had belonged to Poland before the war, part of the lands that had previously belonged to Hungary and Romania , - today Western Ukraine. So Romania and Hungary had some of their lands taken away and given to the Ukraine and they still remain part of Ukraine. So in this sense, we have every reason to affirm that Ukraine is an artificial state that was shaped at Stalin’s will.

Putin: In 1922, when the USSR was being established, the Bolsheviks started building the USSR and established the Soviet Ukraine, which had never existed before.

Putin: Firstly, I think that the Russian leadership proceeded from the fundamental principles of relations between Russia and Ukraine: a common language — more than 90 percent of the population there spoke Russian; family ties — every third person there had some kind of family or friendship ties; common culture; common history; finally, common faith; co-existence within a single state for centuries; and deeply interconnected economies. All of these were so fundamental. All these elements together make our good relations inevitable.

What's the other language they spoke? the one that was systematically suppressed and stomped out? oh was it Ukrainian. Funny that. The "common language" of Russian is what was artificially pushed into Ukraine. Typical Russification tactics. Having similar culture doesn't mean Russian culture is real and Ukrainian culture is fake. It's amazing how aggressively stupid you are to support a mainstream establishment dork like Tucker. He's laughing at idiots like you every day.

Most scholars agree that the Holodomor was a man-made famine caused by official policy. 1 out of every 8 Ukrainians were killed. If the two sides were really so close, then this action wouldn't have been necessary. The famine left Ukraine traumatized and crushed their capacity for open resistance to Russia for generations. By design.

On top of that, you also had multiple waves of arrest, exile and execution which took place. The Ukrainian intelligentsia was decimated by purges in the 1920's and 1930's.

 

[HOLA]

What Putin did was regurgitate a historical narrative rife with conflations, omissions, and favorable framing that is congruent with his agenda and so by that standard pretty much all of those presidents could've done that except Trump and maybe Bush Jr and Biden. Even those last three could pull it off with enough prep.

What he did with Tucker was nothing knew, either. It's the same spiel he's been repeating for years. He's even published articles on it.

Article by Vladimir Putin ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“

Article of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin

www.prlib.ru

Here's a part that touches on what I mentioned in a previous post:

"In a letter to Moscow in 1654, Bohdan Khmelnytsky thanked Tsar Aleksey Mikhaylovich for taking ”the whole Zaporizhian Host and the whole Russian Orthodox world under the strong and high hand of the Tsar“. It means that, in their appeals to both the Polish king and the Russian tsar, the Cossacks referred to and defined themselves as Russian Orthodox people."

No, it doesn't mean that. Khmelnytsky was fighting for the defense of Cossack rights and privileges (and also to exterminate Jews). He fought in alliance with Tatars and was prepared to join Ottoman dependencies as a protectorate of the Sultan. He ended up swearing allegiance to Tsar Aleksei Romanov, but nobody was thinking or speaking in ethnic terms. A religion-based alliance was more attractive, but that is where their connection as a "fraternal people" ended.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I’m not an expert on Russian history, what are you reading that explains how what he said is “made up bullshit”?

Its not necessarily made up as much as it relies on conflations, omissions, and misleading framing. For instance at one point he implies the existence of Ukraine was partly an Austro-Hungarian plot to dismember Russia but omits the fact that there was a nascent Ukrainian national movement at the time. So its not that the Austro-Hungarians created the Ukrainian national movement as much as they sought to exploit an already existing one.

What he did with Tucker was nothing knew, either. It's the same spiel he's been repeating for years. He's even published articles on it.

Article by Vladimir Putin ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“

Article of the President of the Russian Federation V.V. Putin

www.prlib.ru

Here's a part that touches on what I mentioned in a previous post:

"In a letter to Moscow in 1654, Bohdan Khmelnytsky thanked Tsar Aleksey Mikhaylovich for taking ”the whole Zaporizhian Host and the whole Russian Orthodox world under the strong and high hand of the Tsar“. It means that, in their appeals to both the Polish king and the Russian tsar, the Cossacks referred to and defined themselves as Russian Orthodox people."

No, it doesn't mean that. Khmelnytsky was fighting for the defense of Cossack rights and privileges (and also to exterminate Jews). He fought in alliance with Tatars and was prepared to join Ottoman dependencies as a protectorate of the Sultan. He ended up swearing allegiance to Tsar Aleksei Romanov, but nobody was thinking or speaking in ethnic terms. A religion-based alliance was more attractive, but that is where their connection as a "fraternal people" ended.

There's this far right history YTer I listen to and he went over the interview trying to steelman Putin's take. Though he's clearly sympathetic to Putin and even paid him the same compliment that @Fox by the Sea did ITT about how at least he can recount Russian history in detail unlike Western politicians who couldn't do the same for their own countries even he couldn't help but point out all the conflations, omissions, and dishonest framing and that was one of them.

I think there's more than a seed of truth to the idea that Ukrainians and Russians are sister peoples but what Putin gets wrong is that this doesn't really matter in the way he thinks. Look at Taiwan, its culturally far closer to China than Ukraine is to Russia and there's a far stronger argument about it being an artificial state. But even they want nothing to do with the PRC and that's because their people want liberal democracy, not to live under a communist dictatorship. Similarly it doesn't matter how much shared history and cultural overlap exists between the Russian and Ukrainian people if the Ukrainians want to turn towards the West and liberal democracy while Russia ossifies as an authoritarian oligarchy.

Putin is stuck in the late 19th century where Russia as the overlord of the Slavs was used as a pretext to project power but these days no one cares about that stuff nearly as much anymore.

 

[Rod1]

It's the whole point of an analogy moron.

That's not an analogy, that's a hypothetical.

For it to be an analogy it has to be analogous, its in the fucking name, ANALOGY.

America wouldn't accept it if happened. Nor would/have Russia.

Mexico wouldn't let America murder their politicians, take big chunks of their country or invade under false pretenses either.

Damn you're dumb, yet so confident in your evident stupidity on this matter.

Says the guy that literally falls for Russian propaganda.