Trumps many, many business failings explained

[m52nickerson]

See, your kind always talk like this. Is there some manual out there that describes how to give goofy faces, be apathetic about everything, and how to pretend to be intellectually elite without having to actually say anything intelligent? With Bernie supports and anti trump people just constant smart ass remarks without any actual substance. Like above.

You just want to point out that Trump made money and thus is successful. Your right he is at making money, mainly through real estate he has in NY and through self promotion. Not, setting up and running successful businesses.

 

[panamaican]

Here's one person addressing it.

Per this link, Trump under-performed the real estate market by 48-57% over time. Now, I give him some credit since investing and making money gets harder when you have to allocate more money. There just aren't as many really great projects. But even then 48% is a significant under-performance.

People will of course debate that figure, as they should.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesl...med-in-the-real-estate-business/#7517fec5506d

Warren Buffett has a different take there:

In 1995, when he offered this company,” Buffett said, “if a monkey had thrown a dart at the stock page, the monkey, on average, would have made 150%. But the people that believed in him, that listened to his siren song, came away losing well over 90 cents on the dollar. They got back less than a dime.

But Buffett is a known Democrat so treat that as you will.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bu...to-outperform-trump-as-an-investor-2016-08-02

 

[Thunderflash500]

Supposedly, he would have had the same outcome just investing the money into the stock market.

So, while he's been successful he hasn't done it in an impressive fashion. I vaguely recall that someone compared his success to the housing market in general but I don't recall if he did better or worse.

Yea but nobody does that. Nobody takes the whole fortune and invests it. Not to mention the money he got from his dad was in the company. He would have had to liquidate the family business, invest it over a bunch of different stocks and then walk away. Nobody invests like that. And also the stock market did fantastically well during that period of time. Hindsight is 20\20 and people can look back and talk about how great it would be to invest but who knew for sure? Not like the 70's were a great time to invest. Ask Warren Buffet how often people invest sensibly. Him and his mentor both laugh at the idea of people being sensible with their money in the stock market. It's rare. To single Trump out and say well if you did everything perfect and just walked away you'd be where you are now just isn't fair. And if anything it shows how impressive his wealth creation is. That he matched the stock market is pretty incredible.

I believe Warren Buffet actually issued a challenge that regarded this. Something about trying to beat the market over a 10 year period without just investing in mutual funds. It's not easy at all.

 

[jefferz]

What about a thread on clintons many shady business dealings.

like selling nuclear material to the russians, or using distaster relief funds to line her freinds pockets.

Don't forget about the Crusades.

 

[Contra-dictator]

What's sad is that anyone who argues for common sense is berated, meanwhile someone who suggests that Trump is not successful gets a pass, and all because of your political leaning.

You guys make it very difficult not to root for the guy.

For the doubters here, NO amount of proof would ever be enough. They have their narrative from the same people who told you Obama was the "uniter" and that you could keep your doctor, and they will take it to the grave.

 

[panamaican]

Yea but nobody does that. Nobody takes the whole fortune and invests it. Not to mention the money he got from his dad was in the company. He would have had to liquidate the family business, invest it over a bunch of different stocks and then walk away. Nobody invests like that. And also the stock market did fantastically well during that period of time. Hindsight is 20\20 and people can look back and talk about how great it would be to invest but who knew for sure? Not like the 70's were a great time to invest. Ask Warren Buffet how often people invest sensibly. Him and his mentor both laugh at the idea of people being sensible with their money in the stock market. It's rare. To single Trump out and say well if you did everything perfect and just walked away you'd be where you are now just isn't fair. And if anything it shows how impressive his wealth creation is. That he matched the stock market is pretty incredible.

I believe Warren Buffet actually issued a challenge that regarded this. Something about trying to beat the market over a 10 year period without just investing in mutual funds. It's not easy at all.

I posted a link. Apparently he under-performed the real estate market significantly.

And yes, people do that. They take the majority of their wealth and invest it in the market. They live off the returns. And if the family business is in real estate then the family business would have increased in accordance with the value of the real estate they owned or developed. So, yes, we can single out Trump in this regard.

No one is saying that he's a failure but his success needs to be put in context against the industry he was competing in. In his industry, against the national average, he wasn't that successful. Compared to me or you, he's made far more money than we have but we're not playing with his bank account.

I'm a decent attorney but if I trumpeted myself as the "Best" attorney then it would make sense to hold up my accomplishments to other attorneys in my field.

 

[Squarechoke]

Hundreds of millions is a big increase.

Just because he's overrated doesn't mean that he hasn't done anything to be successful, and it's the former part we were talking about. He's exaggerated his prowess while falling behind the market in at least the last 28 years, while there are other notable billionaires that increased their respective wealth by many times more than Trump did.

The discussion isn't about whether he's made a lot of money, it's about how impressive it is with the conditions he had, especially compared to his own boasting.

 

[Thunderflash500]

I posted a link. Apparently he under-performed the real estate market significantly.

And yes, people do that. They take the majority of their wealth and invest it in the market. They live off the returns. And if the family business is in real estate then the family business would have increased in accordance with the value of the real estate they owned or developed. So, yes, we can single out Trump in this regard.

No one is saying that he's a failure but his success needs to be put in context against the industry he was competing in. In his industry, against the national average, he wasn't that successful. Compared to me or you, he's made far more money than we have but we're not playing with his bank account.

I'm a decent attorney but if I trumpeted myself as the "Best" attorney then it would make sense to hold up my accomplishments to other attorneys in my field.

So you're saying people liquidate their family business, invest the full amount, then just let it increase into the billions. Show me who else did this. There aren't that many billionaires so show the proof. Who on the list made it there by investing under 50 million and then just let it grow. There might be like 5 dudes.

I'm not saying he's the greatest ever. But I don't agree with these metrics of judging success. 40 million to over a billion = smashing success.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Hilary recently called the parents of benghazi soldiers liars.
When they said that she came to their sons funeral and she told them that they were going to arrest the people who drew that cartoon about muhammed, Hilary recently came out and said that they were remembering incorrectly.

I guess proof that she lied about sending classified info through email confirmed by the FBI director and proof that she lied to the American people and the parents of soldiers about the real cause of the attack to hide her Libya failures just isn't quite as interesting as Trumps billionaire status is it @JosephDredd ?

Soooo what are your thoughts on the OP ?

 

[panamaican]

So you're saying people liquidate their family business, invest the full amount, then just let it increase into the billions. Show me who else did this. There aren't that many billionaires so show the proof. Who on the list made it there by investing under 50 million and then just let it grow. There might be like 5 dudes.

No, I'm saying that a business that's centered around real estate is largely measured by the value of the real estate assets it owns. So, if a real estate company is worth $X, most of that is the actual real estate it owns. Assets under management. So, if you have real estate as your primary business asset then your benchmark is the real estate market as a whole.

Trump under-performed the real estate market by 48%. This isn't some factory where your valuation is tied up in goods to be sold and market share. It's real estate.

As for people who liquidate their family business to invest it. Not at all uncommon. They diversify between real estate and the stock market with the assets gained from selling the original business.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Liberals don't have the heart or tenacity to start their own business. They have no idea how many times successful businessmen have failed.

They don't have the ability to be successful anywhere but in a University where they can be protected from any opposing views that might upset them.

Lol

 

[Squarechoke]

Liberals don't have the heart or tenacity to start their own business. They have no idea how many times successful businessmen have failed.

They don't have the ability to be successful anywhere but in a University where they can be protected from any opposing views that might upset them.

Yeah, guys like Bill Gates sure don't seem to go anywhere. You seem well educated on the subject.

 

[JosephDredd]

See, your kind always talk like this. Is there some manual out there that describes how to give goofy faces, be apathetic about everything, and how to pretend to be intellectually elite without having to actually say anything intelligent? With Bernie supports and anti trump people just constant smart ass remarks without any actual substance. Like above.

You are right. I want Hillary to win the election and i tried to portray you as mentally unstable. History will judge me

 

[JosephDredd]

I posted a link. Apparently he under-performed the real estate market significantly.

And yes, people do that. They take the majority of their wealth and invest it in the market. They live off the returns. And if the family business is in real estate then the family business would have increased in accordance with the value of the real estate they owned or developed. So, yes, we can single out Trump in this regard.

No one is saying that he's a failure but his success needs to be put in context against the industry he was competing in. In his industry, against the national average, he wasn't that successful. Compared to me or you, he's made far more money than we have but we're not playing with his bank account.

I'm a decent attorney but if I trumpeted myself as the "Best" attorney then it would make sense to hold up my accomplishments to other attorneys in my field.

WSJ did the math. If he invested his inheritance in index funds he'd be ten billion richer.

 

[funcrusher2007]

Edit:

 

[2GunTommy]

Lol it's like a five year olds thought process. "Jimmy did you break the tv?" "Well Cindy had a boy over and I saw her smoking!"

We're talking about a TV Jimmy. But it's cute.



And his successes are.....? Being born into wealth and using every disgusting loophole and crooked measure(the same one's we destroy Hilary and her wallstreet connections on) he could to barely hold onto his wealth until he was enough of a joke to find success in reality TV?

Sounds so presidential.



What about it? Go make it and post in it. This is a thread about Donald Trump, any reason you don't want to discuss him at all in this thread about him?



Yeah he's no library, he's just the comedy section.

His ability to flip-flop whenever it's convenient isn't making friends on both sides. As evidenced by him nearly destroying the GOP and uniting Bernie and Hilary against him.



Not anymore. Clearly you simply need to be a loud, corrupt, pandering clown with no track record of any kind to make it there.

It's hysterical, ask what in Trump's past proves he'll be a good president, you hear about how "successful" he is in business. Actually go over the comedy that is his "success" and it's "but hilary" before the you can finish laughing.

You're an idiot.
I was comparing the lies that Hilary told to the parents of Benghazi parents about how their sons died and then saying that they "remembered incorrectly" basically calling them liars, to what Trump had said about Khan and how what Hilary did was 100x worse but the left is ignoring that fact.
The hypocrisy is what I was pointing out. Get it now Einstein ?

 

[2GunTommy]

Soooo what are your thoughts on the OP ?

My thought is that many people have no idea what its like to be a billionaire and how many times failure happens on the road of success.
Many extremely successful people fail at many things because they don't fear trying new things.
There's a library of books written on the subject.

Attacking his success record is extremely ignorant and naive.

 

[2GunTommy]

Lol

The truth can be funny sometimes huh ?

 

[2GunTommy]

Yeah, guys like Bill Gates sure don't seem to go anywhere. You seem well educated on the subject.

He's a globalist. Not a liberal. Nice try.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

You're an idiot.
I was comparing the lies that Hilary told to the parents of Benghazi parents about how their sons died and then saying that they "remembered incorrectly" basically calling them liars, to what Trump had said about Khan and how what Hilary did was 100x worse but the left is ignoring that fact.
The hypocrisy is what I was pointing out. Get it now Einstein ?

Yes, I'm well aware you randomly brought that up in a discussion about Trump's business history in a sad attempt to change the topic. In fact, it's why I was laughing at you.

But thank you for even more laughter.