Economy Trump's April 2nd Tariffs

I think it's ignorance and silly internet memes that make you think that.
You think I'm ignorant and silly because I want you, me and people like us to benefit? What kind of piece of shit are you?
 
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You think I'm ignorant and silly because I want you, me and people like us to benefit? What kid of piece of shit are you?

I think we've crossed wires then. I apologise.

I'm not from the US.

When you said "I want you to have more", I thought you were referring to more tariffs, since you have defended them regularly in this thread. It didn't occur to me that you would mean something else - I'm sorry.
 
I think we've crossed wires then. I apologise.

I'm not from the US.

When you said "I want you to have more", I thought you were referring to more tariffs, since you have defended them regularly in this thread. It didn't occur to me that you would mean something else - I'm sorry.
OK, I'll accept we had a misunderstanding.

I only "defend" tariffs because the majority of people here talk out their ass acting like they have knowledge of how it works when they clearly don't. (not trying to say I do, but I've sat back and watched basically no predictions from the naysayers come to fruition). Honestly, they appear to be working to me. China has dropped some tariffs, countries are lining up to negotiate with us. This is good for America.

I "defend tariffs" because of what I'm seeing and thats nations wanting to deal with us vs telling us to fuck off. I'm tired of hearing how having trade deficits with everyone is actually a great thing, while also being obligated to spend billions on their defense and other foreign aid. II heard nothing but apocalyptic predictions when the stock market had ,what, 3 bad days? Yet nothing about the massive bounce back just days later and last I looked, the stock market is booming.

And lastly, I "defend" tariffs because I have yet to see any explanation of why everyone does it but when the US does, we're evil and destroying the world. I've seen some pretty lame attempts to explain it but none that make any sense. China actually has the balls to ask us not to tariff them the same way they do us. Why are our exports tariff'd to the point of our products being uncompetitive and we can't do the same?

The world has taken the USA for granted and worse, the leadership of this country has advertised us as such to the world for too long. We prop the rest of the world up at our own detriment. We get raped on trade, lost all of our manufacturing to countries who don't follow the rules of "fair trade", and then foot the bill for your military defense as well.All for a bunch of assholes who don't even like us, the same people crying doom. Enough is enough. We're tired of being the Salvation Army to the world.
 
"MAGA is not primarily about policy effectiveness—it’s about identity, emotion, and belonging. Trump embodies a defiant, nostalgic vision of America that resonates deeply with people who feel left behind, silenced, or mocked by modern liberal society. Even in the face of poor economic performance or divisiveness, he gives voice to their frustrations and a target for their anger."
 
Yeah, yeah. Sure.

I've just been watching you all cry "apocalypse" at every move this admin has made to better our position in the world economy. You want us to be subservient to everyone. We should take shit deals in trade. We can't tariff imports like every other country does for reasons none of you can't articulate.

Every move we've made to strengthen ourselves has been met with tears by people like you.
For what feels like the zillionth time, we don’t have shit deals in trade. This entire economic “plan” of Trump’s is based on the idea that if we are running a trade deficit with another country, then that’s a bad deal—and that is simply not true.

Just a couple of weeks ago, we all sat here watching the entire global economy melt down. You think it’s silly for people to cry “apocalypse” at a time like that? Fuck knows where we’d be if Trump had blinked and backed off.

The thing that really gets me is: even if you believe this nonsense Trump spews about trade deals, why tf would anyone trust him to fix it? We’re in a trade war with Canada and Mexico right now—who negotiated those “shitty” trade deals? Trump did.
China? He started a trade war last term with them and accomplished nothing but devastating our farmers and costing Americans more money. Why would you put faith in him again?
 
OK, I'll accept we had a misunderstanding.

I only "defend" tariffs because the majority of people here talk out their ass acting like they have knowledge of how it works when they clearly don't. (not trying to say I do, but I've sat back and watched basically no predictions from the naysayers come to fruition). Honestly, they appear to be working to me. China has dropped some tariffs, countries are lining up to negotiate with us. This is good for America.

I "defend tariffs" because of what I'm seeing and thats nations wanting to deal with us vs telling us to fuck off. I'm tired of hearing how having trade deficits with everyone is actually a great thing, while also being obligated to spend billions on their defense and other foreign aid. II heard nothing but apocalyptic predictions when the stock market had ,what, 3 bad days? Yet nothing about the massive bounce back just days later and last I looked, the stock market is booming.

And lastly, I "defend" tariffs because I have yet to see any explanation of why everyone does it but when the US does, we're evil and destroying the world. I've seen some pretty lame attempts to explain it but none that make any sense. China actually has the balls to ask us not to tariff them the same way they do us. Why are our exports tariff'd to the point of our products being uncompetitive and we can't do the same?

The world has taken the USA for granted and worse, the leadership of this country has advertised us as such to the world for too long. We prop the rest of the world up at our own detriment. We get raped on trade, lost all of our manufacturing to countries who don't follow the rules of "fair trade", and then foot the bill for your military defense as well.All for a bunch of assholes who don't even like us, the same people crying doom. Enough is enough. We're tired of being the Salvation Army to the world.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Obviously, I don't agree, but I'll pick a few bits and pieces out where that's the case.

No predictions have come true:

This prediction is the intersection of logic and wishful thinking:

The tariffs will reverse soon. Trump will claim a win for some bullshit, obscure trade deal that you've never heard of and now the glass beads from cambodia will be cheaper/more expensive/whatever. Trump isn't a person who can admit fault so he'll have to save face with lies.

The reason is that the Republic Party will get wiped out in the mid terms if nothing changes. I can't see them sitting idly by as they see the writing on the wall that they won't have a job soon.
I think I got this one pretty close to 100%. Basically a near total reversal on everything except China.

China has dropped some tariffs,

The net position is that China has raised tariffs over 100%. It's just not a fair assessment when someone goes up by 170% and then drops a few niche areas by a small amount.

This is good for America.

If it is, it remains to be seen. So far its both an economic and diplomatic catastrophe that has worsened the US stance in the world. That may or may not be worth it, and you may or may not respect or care what the US's stance is.

how having trade deficits with everyone is actually a great thing

I mean, it's a pretty good sign that your nation has plenty of money to spend. Other people can't buy shit. A way to reverse it would be to drastically lower your living standards and have way less money to spend.

spend billions on their defense

Other countries need to step up, agreed.

apocalyptic predictions when the stock market had ,what, 3 bad days? Yet nothing about the massive bounce back just days later and last I looked, the stock market is booming

You don't need predictions, it fucking cratered. It bounced back only because they reversed the tariffs. There's still an exodus of money leaving the US, and there's a real risk that if the China/US trade war continues there'll be long term pain.

And lastly, I "defend" tariffs because I have yet to see any explanation of why everyone does it but when the US does, we're evil and destroying the world.

It's just not really true. Not everyone does it. There's plenty who have free trade agreements with the US with little to no tariffs. The biggest thing that shits me is that our country has historically had a trade deficit and 99% free trade (no tariffs) yet still got tariffed.
There's several huge flaws that make the application of tariffs a nightmare situation:
  • The arrogance/bullying of the US, especially to those who are its allies, and its purported 'hurt' when they have been nothing but supportive of the US
  • The lies perpetuated about why the tarrifs exist and how they are calculated
  • The lies perpetuated about their effect
  • The total lack of direction and strategy in them. This is a big one; if there are specific problems to be dealt with, they should be dealt with, but turning your guns on the entire world and then playing the victim is a dick thing to do. Fuck that.
On the tariff strategy: China is a bunch of dicks. They manipulate their currency, steal IP, and are a known problem to the world. If you want to trade war with them, can you just go do that instead of fucking over penguins somewhere? Why can't there just be some sensible strategy? Oh, and if you intend to go to a trade war with China, maybe stock up on the supplies that will be strangled like rare earth minerals. The administration didn't do that; they just shot from the hip and went 'oh fuck, we're exposed too'. A little planning would be good.

pretty lame attempts to explain it but none that make any sense.

Probably the medium of an internet forum is not great for that kind of discussion. I've felt I've greatly abbreviated my response, but I'd be happy to elaborate if you have specific questions.

Why are our exports tariff'd to the point of our products being uncompetitive and we can't do the same?

Two points:

1st, where that's true, the US should engage in activities to balance that, if its in their interest to do so. There's some level of protective tariffs in every country - even in yours - but where those are manifestly unfair, then the US should act. However, the story being rolled out by your administration is plain untrue. I doubt many people can even name more than a handful of tariffs; they simply believe the administration.

2nd, your products are uncompetitive because you're a very, very wealthy country. You pay your people well. Your standards are high. People get high wages. You are more wealthy than every other nation on earth. They have a lot of difficulty buying your goods. It does mean, however, that your technological capabilities mean you can export high tech, high value stuff instead of low tech things like shoes. Australia has the same. We're a wealthy country. It's not possible for us to compete in manufacturing. Our car industry folded years ago for the same reason.

has taken the USA for granted and worse

I think the EU has failed to arm itself sufficiently and has relied upon the US too much.

I think the current actions in Ukraine make the US a very unreliable partner. Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal in a security agreement with the US and Russia (Trilateral Statement (Budapest Memorandum) ), and now the US is waivering in its support. Good fucking luck convincing anyone else not to become nuclear armed in the future.

We get raped on trade, lost all of our manufacturing to countries who don't follow the rules of "fair trade", and then foot the bill for your military defense as well.

I've discussed the loss of manufacturing; that's simply due to the value of your dollar and the wealth and living standards of your nation. Australia has lost its too. The fact is that people won't buy "Australian Made" if it costs 10x to make. The won't even buy "Australian Made" if it's 10% more. So the manufacturing leaves to someone who'll work 10 hours a day for $1-2 a day. It's just the way it is.

As for 'raped on trade', you're fucking rich so you buy stuff. Do you go buy a TV and then think you're getting raped by the TV saleman (maybe sometimes....). I don't get it. The wealthiest nation in the world, who largely sets the rules, is complaining about it? If your nation is feeling poor, yet is the richest in the world, it's your own damn fault. Reduce the wealth inequality. Stop letting the stupidly rich get richer while the regular population get poorer. Vote in people that aren't just lining the pockets of other billionaires.

Conclusion:
Apologies if it's a bit of a scattershot here. I'm happy to discuss any of the above in a little more detail, that's probably more abbreviated than I wanted it to be and it probably needed to be more focussed.
 
well, respect to you for trying, anyway.

If that's to me, thanks. It does bother me sometimes when there's situations like this:

The average annual income in Bangaldesh is just under $3,000 USD. This dude pushes around a rickshaw all day for pennies:

Kushtia-Bangladesh-10.jpg


He has no fucking money to buy your American product. But when you buy a tshirt or shoes from a sweatshop in Bangladesh, somehow you're getting ripped off because he can't even afford to buy whatever you make?

Is this why Bangladesh got a 37% tariff?

Their population has no fucking money. Of course they aren't buying your shit. They're poor as fuck.
 
"MAGA is not primarily about policy effectiveness—it’s about identity, emotion, and belonging. Trump embodies a defiant, nostalgic vision of America that resonates deeply with people who feel left behind, silenced, or mocked by modern liberal society. Even in the face of poor economic performance or divisiveness, he gives voice to their frustrations and a target for their anger."

Absolutely this.

Trump can change his mind daily - which he does - and totally reverse course at any moment and the faithful just escalate a supposed defence that he's going from 4D to 5D to 6D chess. He's not held to account; it's just a fanciful world people live in where the total opposite can happen the next day and yet that is just as fine as what it was the day before.
 
Its the morphing of the trade deficit and the 'producer economies vs consumer economies' dichotomy into a scene of victimisation, that gets me most. Its not just the disingenuousness or ignorance needed to sustain that imposture ('WE BUY THEIR STUFF, THEY ARE ABUSING US, WAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!') but the constant posture of catastrophe and victimhood Trump (and by default his cult followers) assumes. As has been said many times,. these selfstyled fucking alphas spend so much time whining like bitches, its untrue. Create an exaggerated scenario where you are somehow the victim, that must mean if we are the victim SOMEONE ELSE is the ENEMY. Its so fucking facile it makes me weep, that the cult are so easily swayed.
 
Absolutely this.

Trump can change his mind daily - which he does - and totally reverse course at any moment and the faithful just escalate a supposed defence that he's going from 4D to 5D to 6D chess. He's not held to account; it's just a fanciful world people live in where the total opposite can happen the next day and yet that is just as fine as what it was the day before.
It's why I generally don't waste my time arguing. The trump cult of personality is based in feelings and emotions, you will never get through that with facts and logic.
 
"MAGA is not primarily about policy effectiveness—it’s about identity, emotion, and belonging. Trump embodies a defiant, nostalgic vision of America that resonates deeply with people who feel left behind, silenced, or mocked by modern liberal society. Even in the face of poor economic performance or divisiveness, he gives voice to their frustrations and a target for their anger."
The voice of a million losers.
 
It's why I generally don't waste my time arguing. The trump cult of personality is based in feelings and emotions, you will never get through that with facts and logic.

I live in hope!

Trump appeals to many people. There's a lot of people who feel left behind by the system, who watch their opportunities become less than the previous generation and see their country changing into something that is less recognisable than before. It happens in my country, too. Affordability is dropping, and the prospect of home ownership is rapidly diminishing for this current generation.

Trump has an astonishing ability to appeal to these people who are disenfranchised. He bucks the system. He gives simple answers. He directs their anger onto targets, in a world that's very complex and doesn't have an easy target.

Sometimes, I think those people are fucking idiots. But I live in hope that they'll see through Trump at some stage and realise his so called simple answers are just bullying appeals to ignorance. It pains me to see the worlds richest country with the worlds largest military paint itself the victim so it justifies lashing out on others. If Americans feel poor in their own country - the richest in the world - it is a problem the country has created itself with inequality.
 
Real gross domestic product (GDP) decreased at an annual rate of 0.3 percent in the first quarter of 2025 (January, February, and March), according to the advance estimate released by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the fourth quarter of 2024, real GDP increased 2.4 percent.

https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp1q25-adv-chart-01.png

they think the tariff is one of the reasons why

 
I live in hope!

Trump appeals to many people. There's a lot of people who feel left behind by the system, who watch their opportunities become less than the previous generation and see their country changing into something that is less recognisable than before. It happens in my country, too. Affordability is dropping, and the prospect of home ownership is rapidly diminishing for this current generation.

Trump has an astonishing ability to appeal to these people who are disenfranchised. He bucks the system. He gives simple answers. He directs their anger onto targets, in a world that's very complex and doesn't have an easy target.

Sometimes, I think those people are fucking idiots. But I live in hope that they'll see through Trump at some stage and realise his so called simple answers are just bullying appeals to ignorance. It pains me to see the worlds richest country with the worlds largest military paint itself the victim so it justifies lashing out on others. If Americans feel poor in their own country - the richest in the world - it is a problem the country has created itself with inequality.

the weird thing is, as fucken horrible as Trump is and as much as I fucking hate him, if he was a totally different type of populist, if he would put the right label on the problem, if he would say (^^ all of the problems you mention above^^) are symptoms of what they really are, symptoms of the particular form capitalism has evolved into in the US, and the solution is, tax billionaires, make corporations pay their fair share, empower Unions (etc) you know what? I could probably put up with the deportations, I could put up with the anti-trans shit as a total non-issue affecting a miniscule percentage of people, i could even put up with his hideous personality, the vanity, the lying, the bullying, if I thought The American Worker In General was ultimately going to benefit (and was actually a genuine concern of his).
 
I live in hope!

Trump appeals to many people. There's a lot of people who feel left behind by the system, who watch their opportunities become less than the previous generation and see their country changing into something that is less recognisable than before. It happens in my country, too. Affordability is dropping, and the prospect of home ownership is rapidly diminishing for this current generation.

Trump has an astonishing ability to appeal to these people who are disenfranchised. He bucks the system. He gives simple answers. He directs their anger onto targets, in a world that's very complex and doesn't have an easy target.

Sometimes, I think those people are fucking idiots. But I live in hope that they'll see through Trump at some stage and realise his so called simple answers are just bullying appeals to ignorance. It pains me to see the worlds richest country with the worlds largest military paint itself the victim so it justifies lashing out on others. If Americans feel poor in their own country - the richest in the world - it is a problem the country has created itself with inequality.
I hold no such hope unfortunately, at least in the short term to medium term.
 
Real gross domestic product (GDP) decreased at an annual rate of 0.3 percent in the first quarter of 2025 (January, February, and March), according to the advance estimate released by the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the fourth quarter of 2024, real GDP increased 2.4 percent.

https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp1q25-adv-chart-01.png

they think the tariff is one of the reasons why

One of them for sure
 
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