Trump-Ukraine Megathread V8

[*Z*]

Well I'm not a democrat but I am reading all available info to form my opinion. While others refuse to look beyond the phone call.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

It's an absolute fact that Jackson and Clinton had the House vote for impeachment and both were acquitted by the Senate. For the fourth or fifth time, no POTUS has ever been impeached by definition of the Constitution. Impeachment in the Constitution means a House vote and then being convicted and removed by the Senate.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

Art. 1 Sect. 2 para 5
"The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment."
Combined with Art 1. Sect. 3 para. 6

"The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present."

Idk what sort of reading comprehension you have that you construe that Art 1 sec. 3 quote to mean an impeachment is done by the Senate. It's not. Trial and convict/acquit is done by the Senate. Impeachment is solely done by the HOR. It's why HOR gets to draft the complaint (articles of impeachment) and lays out the rules

 

[Joe]

And wait for it...

 

[KeepItRealist]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei

Art. 1 Sect. 2 para 5
"The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment."
Combined with Art 1. Sect. 3 para. 6

"The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present."

Idk what sort of reading comprehension you have that you construe that Art 1 sec. 3 quote to mean an impeachment is done by the Senate. It's not. Trial and convict/acquit is done by the Senate. Impeachment is solely done by the HOR. It's why HOR gets to draft the complaint (articles of impeachment) and lays out the rules

Again. This is a grand jury decision being defined as convicting someone of something. Or the House passing something as the law when it fails in the Senate. The House vote is the first part of the process.

Last time I feel the need to point this out. If people want to believe the House vote is impeachment, then so be it. It's certainly not. Except maybe in the definition of pundits and the media.

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Again. This is a grand jury decision being defined as convicting someone of something. Or the House passing something as the law when it fails in the Senate. The House vote is the first part of the process.

The constitution has clearly separated the two and each have defined roles. They're not the same

 

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

And wait for it...

It was congressionally appropriated and the Pentagon back in May sent a letter saying Ukraine is sufficiently rooting out corruption

 

[KeepItRealist]

The constitution has clearly separated the two and each have defined roles. They're not the same

Yes. It does. The House votes for impeachment like a grand jury and then the Senate serve as the actual judges. The Senate convicts or acquits a POTUS on the charge of impeachment. If he's not convicted, he's not actually impeached. The same as any person accused of any crime.

 

[trident]

that's not my point.

My point is that this is absolutely still under the control of the Democrats.

Everything they do, it's for the sole purpose of discrediting Trump for the 2020 Elections.

They know he's not getting removed by the Senate so they're pulling this shit.

I'm not naive like some out there....I know what's really happening here.

You just described Trumps QPQ in Ukraine

 

[OaklandIsMyCity]

I swear I get so lost in these threads. Are we all reading and seeing the same things? People complain about secret hearings and how they are unfair for Republicans when there are Republicans in the room. Things have to be secret we have dude in the white house who thinks he is a mob boss.There is a phone transcript that suggest quid pro quo and then multiple people have confirmed that is what was happening. Yet we have people that say the truth is not the truth.

 

[trident]

What other source can I give you on impeachment but the Constitution?

You want a CNN article?

You're making up phrases like "true impeachment". That's not a term.

The House impeaches

The Senate removes from office

That's the process

 

[andnowweknow]

I swear I get so lost in these threads. Are we all reading and seeing the same things? People complain about secret hearings and how they are unfair for Republicans when there are Republicans in the room. Things have to be secret we have dude in the white house who thinks he is a mob boss.There is a phone transcript that suggest quid pro quo and then multiple people have confirmed that is what was happening. Yet we have people that say the truth is not the truth.

Everyone knows what's going on. A certain segment just doesn't care.

 

[KeepItRealist]

You're making up phrases like "true impeachment". That's not a term.

The House impeaches

The Senate removes from office

That's the process

The process is the House votes for impeachment and Senate convicts or acquits the charge of impeachment. THAT is the process. When I say true impeachment, I mean impeachment by the standards of the Constitution, not the news media.

 

[juggo]

The Senate convicts or acquits a POTUS on the charge of impeachment. If he's not convicted, he's not actually impeached. The same as any person accused of any crime.

Technically, this isn't true.

Clinton, though he wasn't removed by the Senate, is considered having been impeached, as a result of the House vote. In cases of Presidential impeachment, the Senate is the adjudicator, and votes to remove him from office (needing a 2/3 vote to do so). Clinton is considered the second American president to be impeached after Andrew Johnson, despite being acquitted in the Senate chambers.

 

[bobgeese]

I swear I get so lost in these threads. Are we all reading and seeing the same things? People complain about secret hearings and how they are unfair for Republicans when there are Republicans in the room. Things have to be secret we have dude in the white house who thinks he is a mob boss.There is a phone transcript that suggest quid pro quo and then multiple people have confirmed that is what was happening. Yet we have people that say the truth is not the truth.

Is that the phone call that specifically states “there is no QPQ”?

 

[KeepItRealist]

Technically, this isn't true.

Clinton, though he wasn't removed by the Senate, is considered having been impeached, as a result of the House vote. In cases of Presidential impeachment, the Senate is the adjudicator, and votes to remove him from office (needing a 2/3 vote to do so). Clinton is considered the second American president to be impeached after Andrew Johnson, despite being acquitted in the Senate chambers.

Considered by the media and described as being impeached. But he wasn't actually impeached and removed from office. The House voted to impeach him and the Senate acquitted him. Same with Jackson. By the definition of the Constitution, no POTUS has been impeached.

 

[Joe]

Trumps former attorney general. Abuse of power is not a crime

 

[trident]

The process is the House votes for impeachment and Senate convicts or acquits the charge of impeachment. THAT is the process. When I saw true impeachment, I mean impeachment by the standards of the Constitution, not the news media.

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

The House impeaches. The Senate convicts. The conviction isnt impeachment its removal from office

 

[juggo]

Considered by the media and described as being impeached. But he wasn't actually impeached and removed from office. The House voted to impeach him and the Senate acquitted him. Same with Jackson. By the definition of the Constitution, no POTUS has been impeached.

I've just never heard someone make this distinction.

Anytime I've heard the result of the Clinton impeachment discussed by politicians (of both parties), by news media, by Presidential historians, in encyclopedias, they all acknowledge Clinton was impeached, only that he wasn't removed from office as a result of the Senate vote.

 

[KeepItRealist]

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

The House impeaches. The Senate convicts. The conviction isnt impeachment its removal from office

And I'm what I'm trying to tell you is that impeachment means being convicted and removed from office. Not the House voting to impeach someone in the first part of the impeachment process.

 

[KeepItRealist]

I've just never heard someone make this distinction.

Anytime I've heard the result of the Clinton impeachment discussed by politicians (of both parties), by news media, by Presidential historians, in encyclopedias, they all acknowledge Clinton was impeached, only that he wasn't removed from office as a result of the Senate vote.

Yes. The media and pundits say they (Jackson and Clinton) were impeached, but they weren't. And I'm sure if you looked into the encyclopedia, they would actually point out that the House voted for impeachment, not that he was impeached.