International Trump/Putin Summit

[waiguoren]

The U.S. funds about a 5th of NATO's expenses, does it not?

Yes.

it is absurd to define all U.S. military expenses as "contributing to NATO."

That's a fair point, but did Trump actually use the word "contribution"?

If you're saying that there is no reason to look at total military spending shares in this context, I don't think that's right. Spending can be redirected in the event of an attack on a member nation.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Well here a few things - emoluments, obstruction, money laundering, Mueller will indict and if he cant by law, he will recommended to Rosenstein to indict. Once midterms are done, Congress will be jumping off the Trump train.

The first call from a Republican.
Republican state lawmaker Jason Villalba calls for Trump’s impeachment

This is not a certainty at this point. The radical Republicans that are enabling him seem to have support in their districts and also the Russian campaign is still going strong. I'm not sure we can counter that if Trump is turning a blind eye and not ordering his agencies to go after them. Those are a lot of seats the Democrats are going to need to pick up.

 

[TheGreatA]

American power could be defined in many ways, (especially the productive strength of the population in general) but I argue that its scientific leaders are what propelled its exceptionalism and rise as global leader. America and its values gave birth and nurtured the likes of Benjamin Franklin, Benjamin Banneker, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, W.E.B. Du Bois, G. W. Carver, Katherine Johnson, Thomas Edison, Carl Sagan, James Watson, David Bohm, J. Robert Oppenheimer, and I can go on and on, but I think you get the inarguable picture: America in its short history has produced world historical figures of a much larger importance than any of those countries you named.

As far as its scientific leadership goes, I would say that some of America's most significant scientific contributors were dudes that were snatched up from Germany, and thus not necessarily a product of America's environment.

America has given birth to a host of significant cultural figures, but part of that is because America possesses the means to spread their cultural influence far further than anybody else. I wouldn't say that the American writers, philosophers, economic and political thinkers, hailed for their brilliance, are any more brilliant than men from other countries, just more well-known.

It's all causing quite a disconnect these days among non-Americans, as they are forced to witness the modern-day American clown shows and intellectually castrated content, far inferior in class to their own. All of the mainstream news, TV programs, movies, music, from America, are basically trash.

 

[waiguoren]

@Jack V Savage

BTW, if you're arguing that it's confusing and potentially misleading to mention the military budget figures and the actual NATO contribution numbers in the same few breaths without being extremely clear with one's language, then I agree with you. It can mislead people who don't know better. But at the end of the day Trump's point is solid. Most of the nations aren't meeting their targets, we're paying more (%) than almost all of them, and yet they are the ones who need defending.

 

[Rational Poster]

As far as its scientific leadership goes, I would say that some of America's most significant scientific contributors were dudes that were snatched up from Germany, and thus not necessarily a product of America's environment.

America has given birth to a host of significant cultural figures, but part of that is because America possesses the means to spread their cultural influence far further than anybody else. I wouldn't say that the American writers, philosophers, economic and political thinkers, hailed for their brilliance, are any more brilliant than men from other countries, just more well-known.

It's all causing quite a disconnect these days among non-Americans, as they are forced to witness the modern-day American clown shows and intellectually castrated content, far inferior in class to their own.

You could say that but you would be wrong.

 

[Pupi]

As far as its scientific leadership goes, I would say that some of America's most significant scientific contributors were dudes that were snatched up from Germany, and thus not necessarily a product of America's environment.

America has given birth to a host of significant cultural figures, but part of that is because America possesses the means to spread their cultural influence far further than anybody else. I wouldn't say that the American writers, philosophers, economic and political thinkers, hailed for their brilliance, are any more brilliant than men from other countries, just more well-known.

It's all causing quite a disconnect these days among non-Americans, as they are forced to witness the modern-day American clown shows and intellectually castrated content, far inferior in class to their own.

None of the names I mentioned were "snatched" from Germany. They were born and bred in the U.S.A. and I can easily continue to drop more names, but my point remains untouched by your weak argument.

"just more well known" lol. Now you're being dishonest in order to cover up the lack of scientific novelty in those countries. Americans actively ushered in the modern scientific world while the citizens of the countries you named were too busy obeying the church and their imperial/royal overlords to do actual thinking and improve the state of humanity as a whole.

 

[Gandhi]

This started because some guy was saying that Trump gave Putin a metaphorical blowjob at the summit.

I disagreed, and noted that at the summit Trump said US-Russia relations have never been worse.

Then you started bringing extra-summit material into the conversation, as if it's relevant to the original conversation.

Yes his public statements made immediately prior to his soft ball treatment of Putin, provides no context for that softball treatment. Just becuase it directly contradicts what you are implying means you want to pretend it’s not relevant. GMAFB.....

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Real men are willing to risk something, no matter how small, to stand behind their beliefs.

Little boys like to fill up space on a karate forum pushing their wacko uninformed conspiracy theories.




If only we knew why Trump was being so much harder on Russia than Obama.

• About 200 Russians were killed in Trump's airstrikes in Syria (April 2017)
• Trump has armed Ukraine with Javelin missile complexes (Obama refused), and Russia issued an angry denunciation in response. (December 2017)
• Trump's Treasury Department sanctioned seven Russian oligarchs, 12 companies they controlled and 17 senior Russian officials (April 2018)

That's only a small sample. It's easy to buy into nutjob conspiracy theories when you willingly ignore evidence.

He is not tougher on Russia. You can spin whatever data you like but the press conference after the summit has made that apparent to all.

 

[waiguoren]

He is not tougher on Russia. You can spin whatever data you like but the press conference after the summit has made that apparent to all.

Focus on actions over words and you'll get much further in life.

 

[TheGreatA]

You could say that but you would be wrong.

None of you have really strayed too far away from your American bubble, which becomes increasingly obvious by observing each of yours' posts.

Your perspectives are laughably limited, yet you esteem yourselves as the determiners of the objective truth.

Your whole foundations are built on the idea of exceptionalism, a sense of inherent superiority, which makes America one of the most dangerous states ever in existence, comparable to most piece of shit empires before it. There is no telling what will be done to retain that sense of superiority, even well past the point of reason. Because without superiority, there is no America. Exceptionalism is all that there is to America's existence. Outside of that, it's an obsolete construct.

Russians can live with a thousand military bases up their asses, because they're still Russians, at the end of the day, even if they are not number 1. But America would nuke the earth to bits before allowing anybody to build even one next to their borders.

Yet it is the Russians who are the "super-villains". What a laugh.

 

[waiguoren]

Yes his public statements made immediately prior to his soft ball treatment of Putin, provides no context for that softball treatment. Just becuase it directly contradicts what you are implying means you want to pretend it’s not relevant. GMAFB.....

You're assuming that I'm "implying" something. You're wrong.

I usually just call out bullshit around here. I probably agree with you on a lot more than you realize.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The terms of the bet state that, in order for you to win, Mueller's final report must state that candidate Trump offered something to the Russian state in exchange for hacking or the fruits of the hacking. So obviously just discussing those topics wouldn't lock it for you.

But you said a "we'll see what we can do about the Magnitsky Act" would do it, right? We're not going to have a transcript from the meeting, I assume.

If you're saying that there is no reason to look at total military spending shares in this context, I don't think that's right. Spending can be redirected in the event of an attack on a member nation.

Come on. This (defining "spending on X" as "the amount of funds that can theoretically be diverted to pay for X in an emergency") can be used to justify all sorts of crazy claims.

But at the end of the day Trump's point is solid. Most of the nations aren't meeting their targets, we're paying more (%) than almost all of them, and yet they are the ones who need defending.

Trump is a demagogue who has a personal interest in reducing support for NATO (and generally weakening the Western Alliance), and was deliberately giving his idiot followers the impression that we're being taken advantage of and that we're owed money by our allies. Note also that the only time the mutual defense was actually invoked was after 9/11 when the U.S. was considered to have been attacked. And the reason we don't need defending from NATO is that same military spending that in your previous accounting you decided to list under contributions to NATO.

 

[TheGreatA]

None of the names I mentioned were "snatched" from Germany. They were born and bred in the U.S.A. and I can easily continue to drop more names, but my point remains untouched by your weak argument.

"just more well known" lol. Now you're being dishonest in order to cover up the lack of scientific novelty in those countries. Americans actively ushered in the modern scientific world while the citizens of the countries you named were too busy obeying the church and their imperial/royal overlords to do actual thinking and improve the state of humanity as a whole.

Without European-born and bred innovators, America wouldn't have ushered jack-shit. That is a fact.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

No Putin does not like more NATO troops on his doorstep and has condemned this many times. Putin does not like EU countries contributing more to the funding NATO. No Putin does not like Trump's backing out the Iran deal and has condemned this. You do not get to change facts just because they do not fit your Operation Mockingbird deep state run fake news narrative.
Putin did not like Trump bombing 2 Syrian bases.
Putin does not like the CIA operation to overthrow the gov of Syria that Trump has allowed to continue.
Putin does not like that American planes bombed and killed Syrian and Iranian troops in Syria
Putin does not like the continued support of the new anti Russian Ukrainian government installed by a western backed coup

You, my friend, are full of globalist shit. You simply hate Trump and make unfounded claims.

Here. Dozens of articles came up. This is the first one explaining why you're an idiot:

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article...onomy-a-huge-favor-by-shredding-the-iran-deal

 

[Rational Poster]

None of you have really strayed too far away from your American bubble, which becomes increasingly obvious by observing each of yours' posts.

Your perspectives are laughably limited, yet you esteem yourselves as the determiners of the objective truth.

Your whole foundations are built on the idea of exceptionalism, a sense of inherent superiority, which makes America one of the most dangerous states ever in existence, comparable to most piece of shit empires before it. There is no telling what will be done to retain that sense of superiority, even well past the point of reason. Because without superiority, there is no America. Exceptionalism is all that there is to America's existence. Outside of that, it's an obsolete construct.

Russians can live with a thousand military bases up their asses, because they're still Russians, at the end of the day, even if they are not number 1. But America would nuke the earth to bits before allowing anybody to build even one next to their borders.

Yet it is the Russians who are the "super-villains". What a laugh.

It's very weird to see a Fin cuck himself for the Russians.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Seems like if the KGB was really behind Trump/2016 election then our CIA would be pretty salty and ready to expose them. Honestly for the amount of power the CIA wields(basically limitless) it's kinda sad that we reached the point we're at.

Among all the ugly shit the CIA undoubtedly does, things like stopping foreign operatives seizing control of major elections at any cost is why we allow them to have all that power.

Either the CIA itself has been infiltrated or we've reached a point where the leadership is shit and in need of an overhaul.

Hi, there's an ongoing investigation, we'll soon know the details. Sometimes you guys act like Obama should have delayed the elections until it was all sorted out.

 

[Gandhi]

You're assuming that I'm "implying" something. You're wrong.

I usually just call out bullshit around here. I probably agree with you on a lot more than you realize.

Agree “implying” is prob not the perfect word. Point is that the tweet is totally relevant to interpreting what was and what was not said at the summit. He is meekly commenting about the bad relations with the USA while he almost simultaneously tweets out blame on the USA.

As far as agreeing on stuff, you may be right, always happy to find common ground.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Looks like Conor has jumped on board the Putin train....

http://www.espn.com/ufc/story/_/id/...t-great-leader-vladimir-putin-world-cup-final

"Today I was invited to the World Cup final as a guest of Russian President Vladimir Putin," McGregor said. "This man is one of the greatest leaders of our time and I was honored to attend such a landmark event alongside him.

"Today was an honor for me Mr. Putin. Thank you and congratulations on an amazing World Cup."

McGregor then signed off his message with "Россия вперёд!", which translates to "Go Russia!"

Let's see if he becomes a citizen.

 

[Pupi]

Without European-born and bred innovators, America wouldn't have ushered jack-shit. That is a fact.

Again, none of the names I mentioned were European-born and bred innovators. They were Americans that went to American schools.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Focus on actions over words and you'll get much further in life.

Don't be disingenuous.