Elections Trump Admin US Death Count tracker thread

[UberHere]

But this would be if anything new vaccines. Not the ones we've had 50 years and been using for our kids.

I’ve got plenty of under educated people saying “I’ll never take a vaccine again” and they aren’t getting their kids vaccinated. These are Trump voters, so I can’t say it’s only lefties doing this now. Whether they are newly converted Trump voters is hard to say though. A lot of traditional democrats in upstate NY voted Trump this year.

 

[Crazy Source]

But noone that I know of or heard about on the right side has been against those that have been around that many years. Its just not a thing.

Well, you are talking to one in @PhitePhan

 

[Crazy Source]

He should make a statement about how effective vitamin a is for treating measles and significantly reducing severe illness.

“when stratifying the analysis by vitamin A treatment dose, at least two doses of 200 000 IU for children ≥1 year of age and 100 000 IU for infants was found to reduce measles mortality by 62% [RR 0.38; 95% CI (0.18–0.81)]. These results support the current recommendation that two doses of vitamin A be offered to children with measles.“

Effectiveness of measles vaccination and vitamin A treatment - PMC

Background The current strategy utilized by WHO/United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) to reach the Global Immunization Vision and Strategy 2010 measles reduction goal includes increasing coverage of measles vaccine, vitamin A treatment and ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yeah, no. I don't care to get into a vaccine discussion with anyone that hands you some vitamin A in lieu of the MMR vaccine. Your position is dangerous. Get lost.

 

[Andy Capp]

But noone that I know of or heard about on the right side has been against those that have been around that many years. Its just not a thing.

Yes, it is, to wit:

The Anti-Vaccine Movement in 2020​

The popular depiction of antivaxxers as “earthy-crunchy” doesn’t tell the whole story. Anti-vaccine sentiment is strongly associated with conspiracy thinking and protection of individual freedoms, traits that are finding a home among far-right groups.
<snip>
Trump, it should be pointed out, is the first American president to be on the record as having anti-vaccine views, an influence that cannot be ignored. A survey involving Americans who voted in the 2016 presidential election revealed that Trump voters expressed more vaccine concern (specifically about the MMR vaccine, wrongly linked to autism) than non-Trump voters, a result which the authors conclude was explained by their conspiracist ideation. This association between the current right-wing of American politics and questioning the value and safety of vaccines can also be seen in Gallup polls. For the years 2001, 2015 and 2019, the percentage of Democrats who say it is either extremely or very important for parents to vaccinate their children has moved from 97% to 88% to 92%. For the same time points, Republicans went from 93% to 82% to 79%.
<snip>
And a large investigation into the anti-vaccination phenomenon, conducted in 24 countries by a team at the University of Queensland, revealed a strong pattern: people who reported more conspiratorial beliefs tended to be more anti-vaccine. This association was particularly strong in Western nations, like Canada and the U.S. Next in line was the link between anti-vaccination attitudes and the resistance to having their freedom taken away from them. The authors report that “more conservative participants also had stronger antivaccination attitudes.” What was not linked to antivaxx beliefs was education.

The Anti-Vaccine Movement in 2020

What does an antivaxxer and a far-right activist have in common? If the thought of someone who opposes vaccines brings to mind tie-dye shirts and tree hugging, your answer may be “nothing.” But clearly, some do have a commonality: protesting the COVID-19 lockdowns. Coverage from these protests...

www.mcgill.ca

 

[ChosenOne]

So you think anti vaxers for example hold that position because they want people to get sick and die?

i absolutely think magats love when 'libz get sick and die' as a result of their actions and they love that 'fear' hanging over them.

We saw concrete examples of that during covid that could not be denied.

 

[Andy Capp]

He should make a statement about how effective vitamin a is for treating measles and significantly reducing severe illness.

“when stratifying the analysis by vitamin A treatment dose, at least two doses of 200 000 IU for children ≥1 year of age and 100 000 IU for infants was found to reduce measles mortality by 62% [RR 0.38; 95% CI (0.18–0.81)]. These results support the current recommendation that two doses of vitamin A be offered to children with measles.“

Effectiveness of measles vaccination and vitamin A treatment - PMC

Background The current strategy utilized by WHO/United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) to reach the Global Immunization Vision and Strategy 2010 measles reduction goal includes increasing coverage of measles vaccine, vitamin A treatment and ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why do you ignore the part where it is in conjunction with the vaccine and not as a replacement?

 

[PhitePhan]

But noone that I know of or heard about on the right side has been against those that have been around that many years. Its just not a thing.

This is true of US politics, but I’d note that other countries also have vaccine skeptics (most famously Japan who stopped mandating mmr due to side effects).

Japan’s Decades-Long Vaccine Hesitancy​

Japan’s Decades-Long Vaccine Hesitancy

On September 27, Ariake, Tokyo, became the stage for a large-scale anti-vaccine demonstration. This was a striking departure from Japan’s typically orderly public discourse. What made this event even more unusual was the rumor circulating that young participants were being paid ¥10,000 to join...

www.tokyoweekender.com

 

[A Very Serious Cat]

i absolutely think magats love when 'libz get sick and die' as a result of their actions and they love that 'fear' hanging over them.

We saw concrete examples of that during covid that could not be denied.

And you think this makes your statement any better?

 

[Andy Capp]

My point was that they came out before Biden was in office... so whatever reluctance there was didn't matter.

But you didn't say that was your point. You said they scoffed at the idea of taking any vaccine Trump had a hand in.

 

[PhitePhan]

Why do you ignore the part where it is in conjunction with the vaccine and not as a replacement?

Vaccines don’t treat measles infection and vaccination has nothing to do with the 60+% reduction in measles mortality that I referenced.

 

[gentel]

In addition to the measles, the Trump admin screwing with the flu vaccination program is probably going to kill thousands of Americans - both because direct victims won't be vaccinated, and because the spread will be increased as a result of fewer people being vaccinated

 

[PhitePhan]

Yeah, no. I don't care to get into a vaccine discussion with anyone that hands you some vitamin A in lieu of the MMR vaccine. Your position is dangerous. Get lost.

You don’t think people should know about treatment that reduces measles mortality by 60+% when there are kids dying? WTF?

 

[ChosenOne]

Why don't you just check measles cases since the pandemic?

Measles Cases and Outbreaks

Find the latest numbers of confirmed U.S. measles cases. CDC updates this page weekly.

www.cdc.gov

1985	2,822
1986	6,255
1987	3,652
1988	3,410
1989	17,914
1990	27,808
1991	9,643
1992	2,126
1993	312
1994	899
1995	308
1996	492
1997	141
1998	100
1999	99

2000	85
2001	116
2002	44
2003	56
2004	37
2005	66
2006	55
2007	43
2008	140
2009	72
2010	63
2011	220
2012	55
2013	187
2014	667
2015	191
2016	86
2017	120
2018	381
2019	1,274
2020	13
2021	49
2022	121
2023	59
2024	285
2025	93

As you can see, there are considerably less measle outbreaks since 2020 (after COVID19 vaccine skepticism) than in the stretch from 2011-2019. 2020, 2021 and 2023 have some of the lowest years recorded since 1985.

As I also mentioned in another thread, population has also increased over the years and population density as well. So we would expect higher measle cases over time as a natural consequence of having higher populations.

Measles is a disease we can control and eliminate.

I invite you to read this entire study to see what you are missing in your approach here.

Factors associated with measles resurgence in the United States in the post-elimination era​

...

Conclusions​

Despite the overall reduction in the percentage of imported cases of measles in the US over the past two decades, pockets of internal transmission of the disease following importation via increasing number of outbreaks in unvaccinated subpopulations, reinforced by vaccine hesitancy, account for the increasing incidence rates of the disease in the US. Taking a step further on the current control measures to control indigenous transmission through efficient vaccination coverage in at-risk subpopulations and among international US travellers, improved disease surveillance and rapid outbreaks containment are essential in curbing the resurgence of measles in the US.

 

[Cajun]

But you didn't say that was your point. You said they scoffed at the idea of taking any vaccine Trump had a hand in.

They did.

 

[ChosenOne]

Fuck off. You explicitly said it in your OP. "We must hope..."

yes.

If we have data that 'X children died', or we KNOW 'X people will die', we must hope those populations of death are contained within the populations deliberately taking on more risk.

Lets try this another way.

If you know someone is in a relationship with a partner and in a community where Aids is common and one of them is regularly out cheating and engaging in unprotected sex outside their relationship, and then we find out one of the two people, in that relationship got aids, i think you have to be a psychopath to not discern a difference in the level of travesty and empathy between the person who was out cheating and not taking precautions, getting it, and the innocent partner getting it.

 

[Andy Capp]

They did.

Context, man. C'mon.

 

[ChosenOne]

Can you find the word wish anywhere in my post?

you do not need the word 'wish' to be there.

What you did was change the scenario to wanting them both to live (which is a hope or a wish) but NOT the scenario i presented.

See my aids example above. Reply 'i would want neither to have aids' is avoiding the question.

 

[Andy Capp]

you do not need the word 'wish' to be there.

What you did was change the scenario to wanting them both to live (which is a hope or a wish) but NOT the scenario i presented.

See my aids example above. Reply 'i would want neither to have aids' is avoiding the question.

I'm not going any further with this dumb exchange over a distinction without a difference, except to say you've misrepresented what I said.

You can go back to hoping for kids to die. I'm out.

 

[Crazy Source]

You don’t think people should know about treatment that reduces measles mortality by 60+% when there are kids dying? WTF?

Ah, got it. Vitamin A in conjunction with the measles vaccine. That's good info.

 

[ChosenOne]

I'm not going any further with this dumb exchange over a distinction without a difference, except to say you've misrepresented what I said.

You can go back to hoping for kids to die. I'm out.

the difference is everything in my post even if you think it meaningless in yours.

And you completely mispresent my point in your last line so that irony is not lost.

If you come across a car accident where you KNOW someone is dead, that is not you hoping they are dead. You are dealing with a known situation.

You keep wanting to remove the travesty all together (I would want no one to die) when the example and situation we are addressing has someone ALREADY dead.

and i do think you do this innocently. Humans want to avoid difficult thoughts like this and so reflexively just craft a scenario where it works out with no one dying.