TRUE or FALSE: you can't gain muscle while training mma

[chinarice]

Absolutely false & him saying that would imply that GSP is/ was on steroids then right?

No.....explain why it would. GSP is way smaller than Costa lol

 

[bigconan]

It's from the Firas Thread. True or false?

those that do a high cardiovascular type training, makes it extremely difficult to gain muscle...but yes, you can...as long you eat enough protein and eat enough calories. but generally, it's very difficult for people that do that sort of training to get really big and muscular...very very hard.

 

[Bobby Pistachio]

The absoluteness of that statement makes it false.

This. "Only siths speak in absolutes"

 

[DoomPatrol]

It's from the Firas Thread. True or false?

If that were true then nobody would ever move up in weight classes during their career, and that happens all the time.

 

[Siesta]

It's from the Firas Thread. True or false?

You can gain muscle...just not that much.

 

[belph]

Super happy this is in the S&C.

 

[gspieler]

Another factor no one has mentioned yet: experience.

Most people who get into mma already have a reasonable strength base from competing in other sports or just from physical training in general. Pretty rare for someone to get into the fight game who is a complete stranger to the weight room.

But if someone was a true noob, they could pretty easily make strength/hypertrophy simeltaneously to training mma. Someone who's already gotten their noob gains; not so much.

 

[JimRussel]

I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that you can’t. It probably won’t be your primary goal as a mixed martial artist, and you might not be looking to achieve it, but it would be “possible*.

 

[anonorami]

Aside from the fact that the thread title and the supposed claim in the actual OP not being the same (no muscle vs not much muscle) of course you can gain muscle while training MMA.

Also, the claim is bizarre coming from someone who surely knows very well that no one actually goes all out on cardio year round, so what the fuck does "train MMA" mean in this context.

 

[anonorami]

No.....explain why it would. GSP is way smaller than Costa lol

Costa doesn't have to factor into it, but GSP gained a lot of muscle over his career whilst I'm assuming he also "trained MMA".

 

[deadshot138]

You can. Just gotta take roids too.

 

[Cole train]

Another factor no one has mentioned yet: experience.

Most people who get into mma already have a reasonable strength base from competing in other sports or just from physical training in general. Pretty rare for someone to get into the fight game who is a complete stranger to the weight room.

But if someone was a true noob, they could pretty easily make strength/hypertrophy simeltaneously to training mma. Someone who's already gotten their noob gains; not so much.

Not really

Average pro is not very strong in weight room

Not to mention hobbyist or ammiys

(Mainly because strength levels doesnt matter that much in mma really)

 

[chinarice]

Costa doesn't have to factor into it, but GSP gained a lot of muscle over his career whilst I'm assuming he also "trained MMA".

GSP didn't gain nearly the muscle mass Costa did....

 

[gspieler]

Not really

Average pro is not very strong in weight room

Not to mention hobbyist or ammiys

(Mainly because strength levels doesnt matter that much in mma really)

I disagree. The average pro has, at the very least, what most would consider a decent strength base. Not to mention the plethora of fighters who gained their strength base from some combination of wrestling, and/or football, and/or the weight room.

I also disagree that strength doesn't matter much in mma. It certainly doesn't matter as much as technique or conditioning, but is still certainly a big asset to possess, particularly pertaining to grappling. I don't know many pros, off the top of my head, that don't do some form of resistance training.

 

[Cole train]

I disagree. The average pro has, at the very least, what most would consider a decent strength base. Not to mention the plethora of fighters who gained their strength base from some combination of wrestling, and/or football, and/or the weight room.

I also disagree that strength doesn't matter much in mma. It certainly doesn't matter as much as technique or conditioning, but is still certainly a big asset to possess, particularly pertaining to grappling. I don't know many pros, off the top of my head, that don't do some form of resistance training.

theres a video of khabib struggling to bench 195lb in the "mma guys who dont lift" thread if i remember correctly, and pretty much all guys in that area dont lift weights really yet they produce a great amount of champions when considering population size

jon jones could only deadlift 120 kilos when he was a top 10 guy i also remember gsp saying that at the start of his pro career he could not do a pullup.

and this just elite level,lets go to regional pro level and theres even more variation there

im not against lifting weights,i just think that theres a lot o variation with fighters, everyone does stuff their own way.

theres a pretty good convo about this in this thread

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/any-mma-fighter-training-without-lifting-weights.4121799/

 

[gspieler]

theres a video of khabib struggling to bench 195lb in the "mma guys who dont lift" thread if i remember correctly, and pretty much all guys in that area dont lift weights really yet they produce a great amount of champions when considering population size

jon jones could only deadlift 120 kilos when he was a top 10 guy i also remember gsp saying that at the start of his pro career he could not do a pullup.

and this just elite level,lets go to regional pro level and theres even more variation there

im not against lifting weights,i just think that theres a lot o variation with fighters, everyone does stuff their own way.

theres a pretty good convo about this in this thread

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/any-mma-fighter-training-without-lifting-weights.4121799/

Jones could never only DL120 kilos; that just happened to be the weight he was training with. I watched the vid. The pull looks smooth, and nowhere near a 1rm.

No one is ever going to convince me that GSP as an adult could not do single pull-up. I don't care if GSP signs an affidavit.

Khabib is a wrestler from the Caucuses, and not a large man either. It's easily conceivable that he would struggle to press ~200lbs.

 

[Cole train]

Jones could never only DL120 kilos; that just happened to be the weight he was training with. I watched the vid. The pull looks smooth, and nowhere near a 1rm.

No one is ever going to convince me that GSP as an adult could not do single pull-up. I don't care if GSP signs an affidavit.

Khabib is a wrestler from the Caucuses, and not a large man either. It's easily conceivable that he would struggle to press ~200lbs.

Well in the end you cant know how many guys lift weights and who dont

So in the end some do,some dont

 

[Rand M Arthur]

theres a video of khabib struggling to bench 195lb in the "mma guys who dont lift" thread if i remember correctly, and pretty much all guys in that area dont lift weights really yet they produce a great amount of champions when considering population size

jon jones could only deadlift 120 kilos when he was a top 10 guy i also remember gsp saying that at the start of his pro career he could not do a pullup.

and this just elite level,lets go to regional pro level and theres even more variation there

im not against lifting weights,i just think that theres a lot o variation with fighters, everyone does stuff their own way.

theres a pretty good convo about this in this thread

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/any-mma-fighter-training-without-lifting-weights.4121799/

Jon is a top 10 fighting in a division below where his frame puts him. I doubt he will look as good fighting HW where he doesn't have a 10 inch reach advantage.

GSP has multiple videos snatching above bodyweight, putting up dozens of pull ups in a row and doing stuff like pistol squats.

Connor can do multiple muscle ups into dragon flags into handstand push ups into levers.

Bench press is one of the least important movements for MMA or even boxing. The military press and dips are much better preasing movements anyway.

There is a video of Tyson Fury deadlifting 250kg for reps with terrible form floating around Youtube.

a) Imagine how much he could lift if he was taught propper form, and...

b) That strength from the deadlift shows up in fights where he turns his opponents and pins them to the ropes. When he leans on them and walks them back to their corners.

Strength absolutely plays a big role in fighting. Strength is also a limiting factor in power, you will never have more power than you have strength, by definition. And power dominates combat sports.

 

[Cole train]

Jon is a top 10 fighting in a division below where his frame puts him. I doubt he will look as good fighting HW where he doesn't have a 10 inch reach advantage.

GSP has multiple videos snatching above bodyweight, putting up dozens of pull ups in a row and doing stuff like pistol squats.

Connor can do multiple muscle ups into dragon flags into handstand push ups into levers.

Bench press is one of the least important movements for MMA or even boxing. The military press and dips are much better preasing movements anyway.

There is a video of Tyson Fury deadlifting 250kg for reps with terrible form floating around Youtube.

a) Imagine how much he could lift if he was taught propper form, and...

b) That strength from the deadlift shows up in fights where he turns his opponents and pins them to the ropes. When he leans on them and walks them back to their corners.

Strength absolutely plays a big role in fighting. Strength is also a limiting factor in power, you will never have more power than you have strength, by definition. And power dominates combat sports.

i simply argued the statement of every fighter having strength base.

Everyone does things different

Also this is kinda off topic since ts was asking about putting on muscles while training mma which is doable just have to eat.

And i know what role strentgh plays considering i had 16 ammy fights (most of which i lost lmao)

 

[No Skill Gap]

Jon is a top 10 fighting in a division below where his frame puts him. I doubt he will look as good fighting HW where he doesn't have a 10 inch reach advantage.

GSP has multiple videos snatching above bodyweight, putting up dozens of pull ups in a row and doing stuff like pistol squats.

Connor can do multiple muscle ups into dragon flags into handstand push ups into levers.

Bench press is one of the least important movements for MMA or even boxing. The military press and dips are much better preasing movements anyway.

There is a video of Tyson Fury deadlifting 250kg for reps with terrible form floating around Youtube.

a) Imagine how much he could lift if he was taught propper form, and...

b) That strength from the deadlift shows up in fights where he turns his opponents and pins them to the ropes. When he leans on them and walks them back to their corners.

Strength absolutely plays a big role in fighting. Strength is also a limiting factor in power, you will never have more power than you have strength, by definition. And power dominates combat sports.

1. What does Jon Jones' hypothetical, projected success at HW vs LHW have anything to do with the topic at hand? If he indeed gains 5-10 pounds of muscle, along with say 5-10 pounds of fat and is tipping the scales at ~240-250 pounds when he debuts in HW, it sort of proves that you can. But obviously he is going to be lifting weights more during that hiatus v.s. specific grappling/striking/camp stuff.

2. Bodyweight calisthenics and gymnastics really have nothing to do with muscle building either. I'm sure the majority of 125-155ers in the UFC are very good at doing pull ups, push ups, bw movements. They are lighter and athletes. Doesn't mean McGregor packed on 10 pounds of pure muscle just because he moved up to LW from FW or because he can do a muscle up.

3. I would agree on the bench press thing, but that's debatable. Bench press is still one of the best upper-body lifts, especially for mass building. Definitely better than dips for building mass I'd say.

4. Tyson Fury is also 6'9, 254 lbs listed. Probably heavier during the lift? So while it's nothing to laugh at, it's still only barely over 2x bodyweight. It was a single right? With bad form, clearly near his max. If he trained more deadlifting then yes obviously he's going to lift more. Still don't really understand how this relates either.

The initial question is "You can't gain muscle while training MMA, true or false?" To which the answer is obvious: False. Because an untrained person or a fatty can train MMA and gain muscle, you could train MMA and lift, you could train MMA and eat a surplus and gain muscle to some degree. Firas is semi-retarded.

But I agree with your last statement, obviously strength matters a lot.