Social Transgender vs Trans Race the insane hypocrisy

[IamStryker]

i don't believe calling someone sir is really what the law is about. you should check again.

A person is guilty of a hate crime if,

"intimidates or harasses another individual; causes bodily injury or severe mental anguish to another individual; uses force or violence on another individual; damages, destroys, or defaces any real, personal, digital, or online property of another individual; or threatens, by word or act, to do any of the above-described actions, if the person, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factors, intentionally targets the individual or engages in the action based in whole or in part on any of the following actual or perceived characteristics of another individual:

(a) Race or color.
(b) Religion.
(c) Sex.
(d) Sexual orientation.
(e) Gender identity or expression.
(f) Physical or mental disability.
(g) Age.
(h) Ethnicity.
(i) National origin.

It looks to me like one of the intentions of this bill was to punish misgendering. Given the wording why would you believe that can't happen?

 

[kflo]

A person is guilty of a hate crime if,

"intimidates or harasses another individual; causes bodily injury or severe mental anguish to another individual; uses force or violence on another individual; damages, destroys, or defaces any real, personal, digital, or online property of another individual; or threatens, by word or act, to do any of the above-described actions, if the person, regardless of the existence of any other motivating factors, intentionally targets the individual or engages in the action based in whole or in part on any of the following actual or perceived characteristics of another individual:

(a) Race or color.
(b) Religion.
(c) Sex.
(d) Sexual orientation.
(e) Gender identity or expression.
(f) Physical or mental disability.
(g) Age.
(h) Ethnicity.
(i) National origin.

It looks to me like one of the intentions of this bill was to punish misgendering. Given the wording why would you believe that can't happen?

so if i mis-religion you you think this law makes that a hate crime? mis-ethnicity you? mis-age you? mis-nation you? mis-sexual-orientation you?

 

[Hog-train]

That's literally a single opinion.

Klinefelster syndrome is a chromosomal disorder that entails the presence of an extra chromosome. So for all the people who say sex is defined by chromosomes, that contradicts it. Turner is the same for females

People with Klinefelster syndrome have an extra X chromosome (XXY.) Thus, they're a biological male with a genetic abnormality.

People with Turner's syndrome only have 1 X chromosome (X.) Thus, they're a biological female with a genetic abnormality.

Thus, intersex people still fall under the sex binary.

 

[grimballer]

in the us they could be considered black in what context?

if they have black ancestry regardless of the look

you're making this up of course.

im imagining man who identify as women called "brave" and winning woman of the year awards...

why would it be?

people to "be encouraged to be who they are", you know just like transgender?

gender is not "biology".

like i said, without sex (biology) gender becomes meaningless

 

[grimballer]

and if you don't find out?

and no, you don't "have to". people are free to be an asshole if they choose.

then i was deceived by a convincing costume...

so now acknowledging the reality is considered being an asshole?

maybe its the other way around and pretending something is true when it isn't is being asshole?

 

[grimballer]

Nice of you to speak for all intersex people. Like that Doctor who apparently "misidentified" Caster Semenya, who is a man born with a vagina lol

even then those intersex people (born with both or either genitalia) are not the same as transgender (born as one sex, but identifies with another)

 

[Super_Nintendo]

Sex is NOT binary. Intersexed people do exist, and are forced into a social gender binary without any input of their own most often when they're born. You're both ignoring the existence of them to make your point, and conflating sex and gender.

some people are born with three toes or missing limbs. they're birth defects and it doesn't mean they have any less dignity but it doesn't mean there's a fucking spectrum, ya doofus! sex is binary.

 

[IamStryker]

so if i mis-religion you you think this law makes that a hate crime? mis-ethnicity you? mis-age you? mis-nation you? mis-sexual-orientation you?

Only one group in this list has been requesting to punish people for doing that. We'll see how this law is used now.

 

[Sinister]

even then those intersex people (born with both or either genitalia) are not the same as transgender (born as one sex, but identifies with another)

I was never arguing that. I was arguing that intersex people represent a deviation from the sex binary, which they do.

I'll try to make it simple although in this context simplicity is usually the argument of liars (like perpetrators of biological essentialism), the world is complex and this issue is complex regardless of who gets in their fee fees about it:

Saying: "All humans are born either male or female" is objectively false. Because it just is. If there are statistically significant anomalies then its objectively false. Not ALL humans are born male or female. And any point based on this objectively false statement is also false, such as that sex is strictly a binary.

Saying: "Most humans are born either male or female" is objectively true. Just as saying most humans are born with 2 legs is objectively true. Just not...when it isnt. So statements based on this are objectively true. But if we're going by biology, those arent the only 2 things even though for social function (as we defined it in the past) we shoehorned EVERYTHING into that binary, that doesnt make the binary fully valid.

If it did there would have been NO controversy surrounding Caster Semenya. Has vagina, legally a woman, is woman. But someone had a problem, and suddenly "no that was wrong, has chromosomal variation, has internal organs, is a man." Realitiy is, Caster is intersex and lived as a woman, which was fine until someone outside of Caster decided it wasnt. Feelings.

The essentialist says: "All humans are supposed to have 2 legs." Which is a clever way of being able to otherize people who dont. I'm sure Hellen Keller would have had an interesting opinion on this take. All this does is socially normalize the majority. You have your 2 legs, so everything is ok. You're correct, by default. If you were born with one leg, something is wrong. Something is incorrect. Think of a kid asking what's wrong with another kid born with 1 leg, or 0 legs. I dont think I'd like to portray that as wrong, a defect, like the parents f*cked up. But rather, different. Besides telling someone born with 0 legs that people are supposed to have 2 means absolutely d*ck to them. And most of the disadvantages they face would just be because of how much having 2 legs is normalized, making access difficult for them. I mentioned Hellen Keller because she was a figure in American History who fought against this. Before her time there was almost NO accommodation for Americans with disabilities. They had to fight for recognition and validity against this exact same thought process, going from being invalid, to just people who are different.

 

[My Spot]

It was weird to see so many libs making fun of Rachel Dolezal.

 

[grimballer]

I was never arguing that. I was arguing that intersex people represent a deviation from the sex binary, which they do.

I'll try to make it simple although in this context simplicity is usually the argument of liars (like perpetrators of biological essentialism), the world is complex and this issue is complex regardless of who gets in their fee fees about it:

Saying: "All humans are born either male or female" is objectively false. Because it just is. If there are statistically significant anomalies then its objectively false. Not ALL humans are born male or female. And any point based on this objectively false statement is also false, such as that sex is strictly a binary.

Saying: "Most humans are born either male or female" is objectively true. Just as saying most humans are born with 2 legs is objectively true. Just not...when it isnt. So statements based on this are objectively true. But if we're going by biology, those arent the only 2 things even though for social function (as we defined it in the past) we shoehorned EVERYTHING into that binary, that doesnt make the binary fully valid.

If it did there would have been NO controversy surrounding Caster Semenya. Has vagina, legally a woman, is woman. But someone had a problem, and suddenly "no that was wrong, has chromosomal variation, has internal organs, is a man." Realitiy is, Caster is intersex and lived as a woman, which was fine until someone outside of Caster decided it wasnt. Feelings.

The essentialist says: "All humans are supposed to have 2 legs." Which is a clever way of being able to otherize people who dont. I'm sure Hellen Keller would have had an interesting opinion on this take. All this does is socially normalize the majority. You have your 2 legs, so everything is ok. You're correct, by default. If you were born with one leg, something is wrong. Something is incorrect. Think of a kid asking what's wrong with another kid born with 1 leg, or 0 legs. I dont think I'd like to portray that as wrong, a defect, like the parents f*cked up. But rather, different. Besides telling someone born with 0 legs that people are supposed to have 2 means absolutely d*ck to them. And most of the disadvantages they face would just be because of how much having 2 legs is normalized, making access difficult for them. I mentioned Hellen Keller because she was a figure in American History who fought against this. Before her time there was almost NO accommodation for Americans with disabilities. They had to fight for recognition and validity against this exact same thought process, going from being invalid, to just people who are different.

notice how in your own example you acknowledge that people born with 1 or no leg have to be accommodated?

this mean you acknowledge they have some kind of handicap that prevents them from functioning like a normal human being with 2 legs.

which means you acknowledge humans are bipedal creatures and naturally they should have 2 functioning legs. if that doesn't occur it means you're dealing with a deformity.

you not like calling it that = feelings, not the other way around.

same with sex. humans, like other mammals and majority of other animals, are binary. its either males or females. occasionally theres "intersex", but thats not "normal" its a malformation.

now just cause theres these people with these malformations, we gonna go next step and pretend a man having a procedure to remove his sex organs is perfectly fine and he's actually a woman? so just ignore biology and go with his feelings?

 

[IamStryker]

Not ALL humans are born male or female.

Wrong. You want to pretend that some mutations that alter some characteristics makes sex a spectrum. It's not. Everyone still falls into biologically male or female.

If it did there would have been NO controversy surrounding Caster Semenya. Has vagina, legally a woman, is woman. But someone had a problem, and suddenly "no that was wrong, has chromosomal variation, has internal organs, is a man." Realitiy is, Caster is intersex and lived as a woman, which was fine until someone outside of Caster decided it wasnt. Feelings.

No the reality is 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency only happens with males. Caster is a male.

The essentialist says: "All humans are supposed to have 2 legs." Which is a clever way of being able to otherize people who dont. I'm sure Hellen Keller would have had an interesting opinion on this take.

You think disabled people don't recognize how a human is supposed to function?

All this does is socially normalize the majority. You have your 2 legs, so everything is ok. You're correct, by default. If you were born with one leg, something is wrong. Something is incorrect. Think of a kid asking what's wrong with another kid born with 1 leg, or 0 legs. I dont think I'd like to portray that as wrong, a defect, like the parents f*cked up. But rather, different. Besides telling someone born with 0 legs that people are supposed to have 2 means absolutely d*ck to them. And most of the disadvantages they face would just be because of how much having 2 legs is normalized, making access difficult for them. I mentioned Hellen Keller because she was a figure in American History who fought against this. Before her time there was almost NO accommodation for Americans with disabilities. They had to fight for recognition and validity against this exact same thought process, going from being invalid, to just people who are different.

Weren't you just making fun of "feelings"? You want to disregard reality to protect feelings.

This discussion has fuck all to do with accommodating disabilities. Don't pretend anyone here is trying to prevent helping people with disabilities.

 

[Sinister]

notice how in your own example you acknowledge that people born with 1 or no leg have to be accommodated?

this mean you acknowledge they have some kind of handicap that prevents them from functioning like a normal human being with 2 legs.

which means you acknowledge humans are bipedal creatures and naturally they should have 2 functioning legs. if that doesn't occur it means you're dealing with a deformity.

you not like calling it that = feelings, not the other way around.

same with sex. humans, like other mammals and majority of other animals, are binary. its either males or females. occasionally theres "intersex", but thats not "normal" its a malformation.

now just cause theres these people with these malformations, we gonna go next step and pretend a man having a procedure to remove his sex organs is perfectly fine and he's actually a woman? so just ignore biology and go with his feelings?

If youre arguing that people in a minority need to be accommodated, well yeah. And now youve stumbled upon one of the foundation principals OF leftism. Imagine a world where everything g was designed for 7' tall people, and you're 5'6". Nothing you could have done different. But now you need to be accommodated...just like everyone else, only differently. And there's NO harm to any 7' people in accommodating a short person, but some of them sure will complain like there is.

Lol@making an argument to ignore biology and then asking if we're going to ignore biology.

Your contention seems based on not only biological essentialism, but on the foundation ideology that trans people arent a thing, that they're lying. That somehow if you yell at them, threaten them, vote for people who legislate against them hard enough, theyll cease to be trans. And what if they dont? What's the next step to getting rid of them eh? This is a common trope of making an enemy out of a minority because the social and political structures that push this know the end result, but it gets them favorability in the short term. They know trans people wont vanish, they know they wont just stop being trans, and even if the worst happens they know they would be stopped before they finished them all off.

They just maximize what they get from you thinking they can.

 

[grimballer]

If youre arguing that people in a minority need to be accommodated, well yeah. And now youve stumbled upon one of the foundation principals OF leftism. Imagine a world where everything g was designed for 7' tall people, and you're 5'6". Nothing you could have done different. But now you need to be accommodated...just like everyone else, only differently. And there's NO harm to any 7' people in accommodating a short person, but some of them sure will complain like there is.

Lol@making an argument to ignore biology and then asking if we're going to ignore biology.

Your contention seems based on not only biological essentialism, but on the foundation ideology that trans people arent a thing, that they're lying. That somehow if you yell at them, threaten them, vote for people who legislate against them hard enough, theyll cease to be trans. And what if they dont? What's the next step to getting rid of them eh? This is a common trope of making an enemy out of a minority because the social and political structures that push this know the end result, but it gets them favorability in the short term. They know trans people wont vanish, they know they wont just stop being trans, and even if the worst happens they know they would be stopped before they finished them all off.

They just maximize what they get from you thinking they can.

again you can make up your absurd scenarios all you want, but the reality is most people don't care what decisions other adults make for themselves.

the problem starts when they try to impose those decisions on others.

so its not enough that a man has a medical procedure and change himself in a woman, he wants you as well to play along and see him as a woman which goes against reality.

a woman is human female, not a human male who feels like one.

again its funny you talking about feelings, but your entire position here is base on feelings.

its one thing if a 6'2 230 pound man wears a skirt and makeup and see himself as a woman

its another if thst same individual competes with women in sports and you pretend that's perfectly fine and fair cause "he identifies as a woman" after all...

 

[IamStryker]

If youre arguing that people in a minority need to be accommodated, well yeah. And now youve stumbled upon one of the foundation principals OF leftism. Imagine a world where everything g was designed for 7' tall people, and you're 5'6". Nothing you could have done different. But now you need to be accommodated...just like everyone else, only differently. And there's NO harm to any 7' people in accommodating a short person, but some of them sure will complain like there is.

Lol@making an argument to ignore biology and then asking if we're going to ignore biology.

Your contention seems based on not only biological essentialism, but on the foundation ideology that trans people arent a thing, that they're lying. That somehow if you yell at them, threaten them, vote for people who legislate against them hard enough, theyll cease to be trans. And what if they dont? What's the next step to getting rid of them eh? This is a common trope of making an enemy out of a minority because the social and political structures that push this know the end result, but it gets them favorability in the short term. They know trans people wont vanish, they know they wont just stop being trans, and even if the worst happens they know they would be stopped before they finished them all off.

They just maximize what they get from you thinking they can.

Plenty can stop being trans if we just stopped pushing the nonsense of gender ideology. There are plenty of examples of middle aged men just all of the sudden deciding they are trans because what they can get out if it. Plenty of young adults with mental illnesses that become convinced they are trans when they really weren't. The population didn't just magically explode when lefties began pushing this absurd ideology. You want to pretend all of these people were born this way. Nonsense.

 

[Sinister]

Wrong. You want to pretend that some mutations that alter some characteristics makes sex a spectrum. It's not. Everyone still falls into biologically male or female.



No the reality is 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency only happens with males. Caster is a male.



You think disabled people don't recognize how a human is supposed to function?



Weren't you just making fun of "feelings"? You want to disregard reality to protect feelings.

This discussion has fuck all to do with accommodating disabilities. Don't pretend anyone here is trying to prevent helping people with disabilities.

- no, not everyone falls into male or female.

- Caster Semenya offered to show vagina to prove the opposite of your contention. And this very argument is demonstrative of the inconsistency on this. First it's about their genitals, then it's about their chromosomes, then it's about fertility, unless they're infertile, yadda yadda. You are arguing an ideology, nothing more.

- people with disabilities can recognize how the majority of humans function while also recognizing that it does NOTHING for them. When you're born without a leg, other people having 2 has nothing to do with you.

- No, you want to disregard reality to protect feelings. My identity, and my view on society doesnt hinge on what's in someone else's underpants, yours seems to. The world is complex, humans are complex. Your desire to simplify them notwithstanding.

- the point was that at one point in American History disabled people were disregarded, thought of as lesser, not worth accommodating socially. The same way you view trans people.

 

[Sinister]

again you can make up your absurd scenarios all you want, but the reality is most people don't care what decisions other adults make for themselves.

the problem starts when they try to impose those decisions on others.

so its not enough that a man has a medical procedure and change himself in a woman, he wants you as well to play along and see him as a woman which goes against reality.

a woman is human female, not a human male who feels like one.

again its funny you talking about feelings, but your entire position here is base on feelings.

its one thing if a 6'2 230 pound man wears a skirt and makeup and see himself as a woman

its another if thst same individual competes with women in sports and you pretend that's perfectly fine and fair cause "he identifies as a woman" after all...

"I dont care what decisions other adults make for themselves, now listen to this rant about how I completely dislike and reject these decisions other adults make for themselves."

You're so full of sh*t. Do you also not participate in women with fake tits? Bottle blondes? People who use contacts to make their eyes different colors? Tattoos?

People alter themselves into what they want all the time, and you dont care so long as you dont feel ideologically threatened by it, and so long as you're not politically enraged by any widespread acceptance past wherever you draw the line. The world is going to change, there's NOTHING you can do about it.

 

[kflo]

again you can make up your absurd scenarios all you want, but the reality is most people don't care what decisions other adults make for themselves.

the problem starts when they try to impose those decisions on others.

so its not enough that a man has a medical procedure and change himself in a woman, he wants you as well to play along and see him as a woman which goes against reality.

a woman is human female, not a human male who feels like one.

again its funny you talking about feelings, but your entire position here is base on feelings.

its one thing if a 6'2 230 pound man wears a skirt and makeup and see himself as a woman

its another if thst same individual competes with women in sports and you pretend that's perfectly fine and fair cause "he identifies as a woman" after all...

Of course you go to the straw man of “man says he’s a woman” and competes against them in sports, when you know it doesn’t work that way.

Treat people with respect and allow them and their families and professionals to make their own decisions.

 

[BudKing8806]

"I dont care what decisions other adults make for themselves, now listen to this rant about how I completely dislike and reject these decisions other adults make for themselves."

You're so full of sh*t. Do you also not participate in women with fake tits? Bottle blondes? People who use contacts to make their eyes different colors? Tattoos?

People alter themselves into what they want all the time, and you dont care so long as you dont feel ideologically threatened by it, and so long as you're not politically enraged by any widespread acceptance past wherever you draw the line. The world is going to change, there's NOTHING you can do about it.

Just give it up dude, you look like a fool in here.

 

[IamStryker]

- no, not everyone falls into male or female.

Very compelling argument but unfortunately you are still wrong. Learning things can be hard so here is a helpful video explaining why sex is binary

- Caster Semenya offered to show vagina to prove the opposite of your contention. And this very argument is demonstrative of the inconsistency on this. First it's about their genitals, then it's about their chromosomes, then it's about fertility, unless they're infertile, yadda yadda. You are arguing an ideology, nothing more.

I'm glad you are showing your ignorance. None of what you listed determines biological sex. Watch the video and you might get it.

- people with disabilities can recognize how the majority of humans function while also recognizing that it does NOTHING for them. When you're born without a leg, other people having 2 has nothing to do with you.

That's very interesting but has nothing to do with anything being discussed.

- No, you want to disregard reality to protect feelings. My identity, and my view on society doesnt hinge on what's in someone else's underpants, yours seems to. The world is complex, humans are complex. Your desire to simplify them notwithstanding.

The world is complex. That doesn't give you license to disregard biology because you care so much about your made up identity.

- the point was that at one point in American History disabled people were disregarded, thought of as lesser, not worth accommodating socially. The same way you view trans people.

That's a great story. It's weird you are talking about this as if anyone in here is trying to oppress disabled people.

Trans people have the same rights as everyone else. I know lefties like to pretend they dont.