Thsi isnt the worse era in HW Boxing History?

[Dragonstyle915]

This months Ring Mag (Which is actually listed asAugust for some reason...) Claims the worse times in HW Boxing history were from 1928-1937.

I dont know if I agree with this. Primo Carnera was perhaps the Kimbo Slice of his day but wasnt Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock making noise around that era? I would like thoughts from someone and see if the Ring is correct about this.

According to some people ive talked to "dark eras" in HW Boxing are not uncommon and are more recognized than in other divisions. my Grandfather, 86 years old, says HW division goes from times where no one can name a HW fighter to everyone knowing the name of the top HW fighter accross America. Makes sense I guess. Like the Jr. Lighweight division is about to be hurt bad with Pac, Marquez and Guzman moving up to Lightweight. But no one is going to notice much because you're still going to see those fighters.

Eitherway, if thi sisnt the worse the HW division has seen then i guess we'll be okay lol.

 

[TKDhasBin]

This months Ring Mag (Which is actually listed asAugust for some reason...) Claims the worse times in HW Boxing history were from 1928-1937.

I dont know if I agree with this. Primo Carnera was perhaps the Kimbo Slice of his day but wasnt Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock making noise around that era? I would like thoughts from someone and see if the Ring is correct about this.

According to some people ive talked to "dark eras" in HW Boxing are not uncommon and are more recognized than in other divisions. my Grandfather, 86 years old, says HW division goes from times where no one can name a HW fighter to everyone knowing the name of the top HW fighter accross America. Makes sense I guess. Like the Jr. Lighweight division is about to be hurt bad with Pac, Marquez and Guzman moving up to Lightweight. But no one is going to notice much because you're still going to see those fighters.

Eitherway, if thi sisnt the worse the HW division has seen then i guess we'll be okay lol.

Funny the Ring would call 1928-1937 the worst period. That's when Joe Louis was emerging as one of the greatest........but had just been dribbled like a basketball in 1936 by Herr Schmeling.

For my money the worst heavyweight period was probably 1900 thru 1908........Jim Jeffries was a big lug who would've made a good wrestler. All strength and little technique.....Fitzsimmons and Corbett were heading for the exits.........Tommy Burns and Marvin Hart ?.........Give me a break. Jack Johnson came along and threw some excitement into the division and put boxing back on the front pages.

 

[Tam-Tam]

I think im gonna like this guy.

 

[Sharkey]

With the many defenses against the unworthy, blatant display of corrupt judging against all those who were somewhat worthy, the avoidance of mandatories, all the supposed "retirements" that resulted in giving opponents the run-around, all the clownish antics & clownish exhibitions, and the hypocrisy when the "champion" lost his title, I'm voting the years from about 1976 to 1978 as the worst in heavyweight championship history.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

I just want to post the reasons behind this logic for those curious and that dont have The Ring.

Only 8 World title fights in 9 years is one of the reasons. Primo Carnera winning the title despite having several fixed fights. A blown up Light Heavyweight with 25 defeats on his record becoming champion(Jimmy Braddock).

They mention Dempsey's "White Hope" tournament to find someone to defeat Joe Louis.

Also how Larry Gains (Who had defeated Schmeling and Carnera) and George Godfrey were frozen out.

The White Hope tournament sounds pretty racists but I dont see how much diff it is to the Latin Fury PPV's Bob Arum hosts. Imagine Caucasian Fury?- The Nation would be all over that. lol. But from what I understand Jack Dempsey was an open racists. But I think it had to do with how he was raised and no diff to most Americans back then.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

With the many defenses against the unworthy, blatant display of corrupt judging against all those who were somewhat worthy, the avoidance of mandatories, all the supposed "retirements" that resulted in giving opponents the run-around, all the clownish antics & clownish exhibitions, and the hypocrisy when the "champion" lost his title, I'm voting the years from about 1976 to 1978 as the worst in heavyweight championship history.

I would like to point out that The Ring disagrees with you. The Best era in HW Boxing history was 1970-1980 according to them. Which includes '76-78'. They dont really mention the above.

 

[GlassJaw]

I would like to point out that The Ring disagrees with you. The Best era in HW Boxing history was 1970-1980 according to them. Which includes '76-78'. They dont really mention the above.

Well there ya have it.

 

[Sharkey]

I would like to point out that The Ring disagrees with you. The Best era in HW Boxing history was 1970-1980 according to them. Which includes '76-78'. They dont really mention the above.

I would like to point out that I don't really care what the Ring says 30 years after the fact, as I'd much rather trust my own eyes, my own judgement, as well my own research of the going ons at the time by consulting what was written at the time in a number of contemporary sources.

Besides, the Ring would probably be best not to mention the years 1976-1978 in particular, and I'm guessing the magazine would like best to forget those years seeing as how they were proven to be quite corrupt at that specific time, and ended up losing a shitload of credibility because of their "mistakes".

 

[Dragonstyle915]

I would like to point out that I don't really care what the Ring says 30 years after the fact, as I'd much rather trust my own eyes, my own judgement, as well my own research of the going ons at the time by consulting what was written at the time in a number of contemporary sources.

Besides, the Ring would probably be best not to mention the years 1976-1978 in particular, and I'm guessing the magazine would like best to forget those years seeing as how they were proven to be quite corrupt at that specific time, and ended up losing a shitload of credibility because of their "mistakes".

I wasnt trying to disagree with you or anything. I was just stating that The Ring totally ignored all the things you said. But nice insight.

 

[BobbyBrez]

I would like to point out I like having the old warhorse posters back. Many of us are too young to trust our own eyes way back in the mid 70s, so I love hearing through some of your lenses.

 

[Tam-Tam]

Hearing through a lense? What an age we live in.

 

[mschatz]

I would like to point out I like having the old warhorse posters back. Many of us are too young to trust our own eyes way back in the mid 70s, so I love hearing through some of your lenses.

Mid 70's? I was age -6 or so back then...guess Ill have to take Sharkey's and Kid Mccoy's word for it.

 

[Tam-Tam]

You trust old man memory more than I do. I've seen first hand what the scars of time (and harsh weed) can do to a mans mind.

 

[MMAmouse]

You trust old man memory more than I do. I've seen first hand what the scars of time (and harsh weed) can do to a mans mind.

Yeah just look up Dan Quinn on youtube for an example :icon_lol:

 

[Sharkey]

You trust old man memory more than I do. I've seen first hand what the scars of time (and harsh weed) can do to a mans mind.

Hey now, I haven't touched the "harsh" stuff for nearly a year now, Tam, I'll have you know, and even then it was only a casual, every now and then type thing with me on an occasional late weekend night.

My mind is no more hazy now than it was when getting punched in the head repeatedly way back in the day, or at least I don't think it is.

 

[TKDhasBin]

With the many defenses against the unworthy, blatant display of corrupt judging against all those who were somewhat worthy, the avoidance of mandatories, all the supposed "retirements" that resulted in giving opponents the run-around, all the clownish antics & clownish exhibitions, and the hypocrisy when the "champion" lost his title, I'm voting the years from about 1976 to 1978 as the worst in heavyweight championship history.

Shark........How can you say this ?!......Ali vs. Evangalista was a classic........So was Ali vs. Young........and Ali vs. Inoki was the first true MMA shin kicking contest......LOL.

I loved Ali.......But after Manilla his only real fight was with Norton.....and Ken won that fight (dumb decision to coast in the 15th, but he won none the less).....Muhammed was all circus after Manilla.

Interesting though that one of boxings greatest Heavyweight title fights took place in 1978.......Holmes vs. Norton

 

[Tam-Tam]

Are you honestly discounting Jimmy Young and Earnie Shavers? I mean...seriously.

 

[TKDhasBin]

Are you honestly discounting Jimmy Young and Earnie Shavers? I mean...seriously.

No.......Young was a legit contender. Muhammed came in out of shape........and if you remember, Young kinda made the fight a circus himself by sticking the upper half of his body through the ropes when Ali was pressing. One of the few fights where the other guys antics made Ali lose his cool.

Plain just forgot about old Ernie......I remember watching it live.....but nothing about it sticks out in my mind. It was kind of a blah fight. Ernie pressing.......Muhammed jabbing and covering........for the whole route.

 

[TKDhasBin]

I just want to post the reasons behind this logic for those curious and that dont have The Ring.

Only 8 World title fights in 9 years is one of the reasons. Primo Carnera winning the title despite having several fixed fights. A blown up Light Heavyweight with 25 defeats on his record becoming champion(Jimmy Braddock).

They mention Dempsey's "White Hope" tournament to find someone to defeat Joe Louis.

Also how Larry Gains (Who had defeated Schmeling and Carnera) and George Godfrey were frozen out.

The White Hope tournament sounds pretty racists but I dont see how much diff it is to the Latin Fury PPV's Bob Arum hosts. Imagine Caucasian Fury?- The Nation would be all over that. lol. But from what I understand Jack Dempsey was an open racists. But I think it had to do with how he was raised and no diff to most Americans back then.

There was actually a "White Hope" Heavy Weight Championship back in 1914. It was an artificial title created by sports writers of the times. GunBoat Smith beat a guy named Arthur Pelky for the title and lost it the next year to the "Orchard Man" Georges Carpentier....There wasn't much need for the title a short time later when Willard beat Jack Johnson in Cuba.

Interesting side note........Jack Sharkey never admitted to throwing his fight with Carnera and claimed to his dying day that Carnera knocked him out legitimately.....I've watched the films and it does look as though Primo throws an uppercut from the ankles that looked like it almost ripped Sharkey's head off..........Many years after the fight some insiders were still talking fix.....Carnera was owned and controlled by N.Y. hoodlum Owney "the Killer" Madden......So who knows ?

 

[Sharkey]

Interesting though that one of boxings greatest Heavyweight title fights took place in 1978.......Holmes vs. Norton

Ah, another thing I should have "credited" Ali for, and that was the splintering of the heavyweight titles, although I did touch on that in a way with the mention of him avoiding his mandatories and basically doing so since the Thrilla, which made him due from basically this point on;

"The winner of the Sept 28 heavyweight title fight between champion Muhammad Ali and Ken Norton must fight No. 1 contender George Foreman no later than 90 days later, the World Boxing Council says." - UPI, Aug 20, 1976

Of course that obviously didn't happen as Ali came up with one of his frequent "retirements" as a way out of that fight, as well as comments stating that he didn't have to honour the WBC's demands to fight Foreman because "he was bigger than boxing" and whatnot. Of course that avoidance continued with Norton who was the No. 1 ranked contender by all rating parties after the Young/Foreman fight, only to see Norton (and the governing bodies) also get the run-a-round regarding that overdue mandatory defense by Ali.

Spinks seems to get the blame for the split, but that's wrongfully so, as that mandatory was due a year and a half before Spinks even got the "undeserved" shot. The WBA's mandatory was well overdue, as well, going into the first Ali/Spinks, and funnily enough, I kind of find it odd how the WBA seem to go back on their previous rule where they stated a champion can't fight a immediate rematch with his conqueror (see Ali/Liston and the stripping), but they can go ahead, break their own rules apparently and sanction the Ali/Spinks rematch for what they deemed "the good of boxing".

Pfft.

Norton/Spinks was all set to go, contracts agreed to and everything until Ali came out on national television (was expected to be a retirement announcment, but hey...*shrugs*), embarrassing himself, and cried about how the ex-champion deserved first crack at the title. Funny, when Foreman comes out and says something the exact same within days of Ali beating him in Zaire, Ali seemed to have a much different tune on how deserving an ex-champion was...Hypocrisy at it's finest.

But yes, Holmes/Norton was a hell of a heavyweight fight, no doubt, and kept getting better and better as each round went on, with it of course climaxing in one of the greatest final rounds ever seen in the sports history, maybe regardless of the division.