Thsi isnt the worse era in HW Boxing History?

[TKDhasBin]

Incidentally.........Who won that Dempsey White Hope tournament ? This is the first I've ever heard of it........

 

[Sharkey]

There was actually a "White Hope" Heavy Weight Championship back in 1914. It was an artificial title created by sports writers of the times. GunBoat Smith beat a guy named Arthur Pelky for the title and lost it the next year to the "Orchard Man" Georges Carpentier....There wasn't much need for the title a short time later when Willard beat Jack Johnson in Cuba.

Some assume that the "white" heavyweight title was made because of what has been deemed the white heavyweights futile hopes in beating Johnson, but I researched that some time ago, and found that that was not the case at all. Now I'm going off the top with this, but if I'm remembering correctly, Johnson's wife committed suicide in the fall of 1912 (Sept, I think), which understandably played a large part in Johnson announcing his retirement a very short time later in the year. Because of the then retirement of Johnson (who obviously later came back), the heavyweight title was basically split up into two, with McCarty & Paltzer fighting over the "white" version of it, and Langford & McVey fighting over the "black" version of it.

 

[bradlee180]

F'ed up, delete please. My fault.

 

[bradlee180]

A picture's worth a thousand words, folks...

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[bradlee180]

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Thank God the Heavyweight division is finally beginning to look up again all thanks to one man who's loaded with braggadocio, arrogance, and, most important of all, TALENT:

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David "Hayemaker" Haye is no Ali and no Manassa Mauler, but he's the only chance there is of resurrecting the Heavyweight division, formerly the home of the Greatest-Prize-in-Sports.

 

[valid]

I would like to point out that The Ring disagrees with you. The Best era in HW Boxing history was 1970-1980 according to them. Which includes '76-78'. They dont really mention the above.

For american HW boxing history. Since cubans & soviets were all banned from participating.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

Incidentally.........Who won that Dempsey White Hope tournament ? This is the first I've ever heard of it........

Just gonna directly quote The Ring here...

("Jack Dempsey staged a "White Hope" tournament to find a Caucasian to beat the "Brown Bomber," and when Schmeling pulled it off, Dempsey declaired this "the finest thing to happen in boxing for a long time."
Meanwhile leading black contenders like Larry Gains ( who'd beaten Schmeling and Carnera) and George Godfrey were frozen out.)

So I dont know if it was a tournament like we would think? Like 16 white guys and they faught it out to get one winner. Or if diff white guys were taking turns trying to beat Joe which lead to Godfrey and Gains out of the mix since Black vs. Black wasnt much interesting?

Im sure someone here will have insight on this.

 

[bradlee180]

circa 1890

 

[Tam-Tam]

Of the 90's (one of the strongest era's for heavyweight boxing, IMO) you left out Byrd, Ibeabuchi and Grant. All of these heavies were at some point ranked #2 in the entire division. Other notable names which belong are Akinwande and McCall.

 

[AtomicPope]

Interesting side note........Jack Sharkey never admitted to throwing his fight with Carnera and claimed to his dying day that Carnera knocked him out legitimately.....I've watched the films and it does look as though Primo throws an uppercut from the ankles that looked like it almost ripped Sharkey's head off..........Many years after the fight some insiders were still talking fix.....Carnera was owned and controlled by N.Y. hoodlum Owney "the Killer" Madden......So who knows ?

I saw that on ESPN Classics a while ago (when the Cinderella Man movie made early era boxing fashionable) - Brutal. I found the clip on Youtube:

Sharkey KO'd

Check out the uppercut at 6:30. All I can say is F%^K! I'm surprised he didn't die immediately.

 

[ValeTudoShogun]

Many of us are too young to trust our own eyes way back in the mid 70s, so I love hearing through some of your lenses.

Yeah, true.
amen to that and ESPN classics

 

[Reza Nasri]

I remember back in the early to mid 1990's when that muppet Jeff Ryan was calling the HW era at that time as terrible and as bad as the early mid 80's slump prior to Tyson emerging.
American colomnists at that time such as Ryan and Steve Farhood had a tendency to be spoiled and put down top afro american boxers. Yet they would go nuts for a Barry Mcguigan or Joe Mesi.

I have loads of old magazines where Ryan is being condescending to the HW scene of 91-96

yet at that time u had a peak Riddick Bowe,Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield and tough contenders like George Foreman,Tommy Morrison, Razor Ruddock and at least in the early 90's Michael Moorer. Even the second tier back than ie Frank Bruno,Tim witherspoon and Ray Mercer would have wiped out a lot of todays top names. Plus back than u had athletic black HWs with talent but perhaps not the mental stability ie Bruce Seldon, Oliver Mccall and Ike Ibeubuchi.

Right now i rate Samuel Peter and W Klitchko as very good. The rest apart from Toney u can forget.

 

[pr0ne2gr8tness]

IMO the worst era in boxing is 1956 - 1965, purely on talent in depth

 

[pr0ne2gr8tness]

tho the war periods obviously had a impact

 

[amhlilhaus]

the worst period in heavyweight boxing history was the decade of the 1870's.

an inactive world champion, most fights were decided by violent partisans, and the title was splintered, not mention not a lot of fights in the first place.

 

[Sharkey]

the worst period in heavyweight boxing history was the decade of the 1870's.

an inactive world champion, most fights were decided by violent partisans, and the title was splintered, not mention not a lot of fights in the first place.

What about the 1750's to 1770's (or thereabouts) era of all of those fixed championship fights and whatnot, Amhlilhaus?

If going back to the bareknuckle eras, lots of modern day writers speak of that time as possibly the worst in fistic history, and while I don't read up on the bareknucklers nearly as much as you, the stories told of that time do make it seem like it may have been the worst in history.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

I have to disagree with alot of people here and say this.

I believe since Lennox retired this has been the worse era in HW Boxing history. maybe other eras had curruption. Maybe other eras had very lttle title defences.

But this era, Bert Sugar said it best, you can line up all Heavyweight title holders in a police line with their robes on holding their titles over their heads and no one would know who they are.

Even the time The Ring called Boxing its worse era. Joe Louis was coming up, Braddock, bloated Light Heavyweight with 20+ losses or not was making noise. Primo Carnera was a circuis act but people knew who he was.

Today Heavywight Boxing is laughed at by alot of Main Stream Media and nowhere near any ones thoughts.

I think the Heavywight Division right now is the equivalent of Carlos Baldomir being the best Welterweight in the world playing the role of Klitchco and Alfonso Gomez is a distant second.

Back then being Heavyweight Champ meant something. Even if people didnt follow it. Im sure we will recover from this period but this is such a bad time for heavyweight Boxing in my opinion anyway.

 

[Dragonstyle915]

....Especially taking in account all the exposure and opportunity there is out there today. No Heavyweight fight today could sell 200,000 PPV buys. maybe the Klitchco brothers fighting each other would but I would be suprised. With 61 million omes having access to Pay-Per-View I see that as a downfall.

Mike Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis PPV's selling 1 million when there was only like half of that many homes, or less, available will show you how much HW Boxing has fell.

Tyson vs. Holyfield selling 500,000 PPV's would be a joke today if you look at the ratio which im too lazy to look for.... But Klichco selling that many homes today would be a grand slam. Expectations are less today and even then they dont come close.

 

[amhlilhaus]

What about the 1750's to 1770's (or thereabouts) era of all of those fixed championship fights and whatnot, Amhlilhaus?

If going back to the bareknuckle eras, lots of modern day writers speak of that time as possibly the worst in fistic history, and while I don't read up on the bareknucklers nearly as much as you, the stories told of that time do make it seem like it may have been the worst in history.

I didn't nominate those decades simply because as a fair minded historian, the record keeping for the era is too incomplete to merit it's inclusion. don't get me wrong, it's lack of record keeping is a indication that it's contemporary's weren't impressed with the talent at the time.

however some of what is 'passed' down is suspect, starting with the champion. jack slack was widely held to be a 'blackguard', deficient in skill and honor, accued of being involved in crosses, yet his recorded bouts indicate that he was a never say die battler, just what the type of fighting required and if he threw so many fights, why was he still regarded as champion? the later cases of thrown fights, with george meggs, peter corcoran, harry sellars and duggan fearns resulted in the winner of the fix to be champion. we know the 1870's sucked balls, it was simply a case of the better documentation, but on reflecting on it, I'll place the 1760-1770's on an equal footing, after having rattled off 4 fixed matches for the title, it makes me think of the modern nba.

 

[bradlee180]

Of the 90's (one of the strongest era's for heavyweight boxing, IMO) you left out Byrd, Ibeabuchi and Grant. All of these heavies were at some point ranked #2 in the entire division. Other notable names which belong are Akinwande and McCall.

Zuri Lawrence and the term "solid muscle" should never be in the same sentence. Zuri has man boobs.

In Wlad we have a dominant heavyweght champion, with a current not all too disimilar from the one that Lennox Lewis came to prominence with, late in his career.

Wlad continues to be one of the most underrated fighters on the face of the earth. He' the most dominnt champion in all of sports, yet all we hear is "oooh, booo heavyweights suck!". Right.

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