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Television The Star Trek Thread V6.0

Idk man. I kind of agree with the author and I think she made a lot of solid points.
























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But for real, good post.

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Lol, thanks. I read the headline the other day and thought it was dumb, decided to read the article, my brain hurt. I actually did a Picard/Sisko facepalm when I read it. Seems to me they've never watched Star Trek and definitely don't understand it.

Mike, I mean Plinkett, nails it (timestamped):

 
Finished the RLM review, spaced it out over a few days. What a fun piece of work, as always.

God bless those guys for taking something as horrifically shitty as ST: Picard, and squeezing something worthwhile out of it. Talk about turning lemons into lemonade.
 
Ok Heading up to Rural Alaska for 4 months for work. Give me some show recommendations to get on DVD or download. Can't really stream while I'm up there, due to 1mb speed DSL internet(That costs nearly$200 a month)

I bought Voyager on DVD(bought TNG on DVD last year). I just downloaded the Expanse and Sea Quest. Looking for things other than the most common greats shows like Sopranos, breaking bad, GOT, etc...
 
I actually recommend TOS season three for the slashed budget workarounds and the many flavors of cheesey sets and overacting.
It's so bad it's kind of good.

Currently watching the infamous Spock's Brain

Funnily enough, the next ep is "The Enterprise Incident" one of my favorites, and among fans generally.
Cool cat and mouse espionage stuff.

Spocks Brain sure was something. But as you said, The Enterprise Incident was genuinely enjoyable.

I found myself liking TOS way more than I expected to. Didn't watch every episode though. Might do that in the future on an eventual rewatch.

Tonight will be TMP and Wrath of Khan.
 
I usually ignore dumb shit but decided to read the article. That was a mistake. Anyway, I feel the need to comment. Lets begin (Had to omit the passages from the article or this post would be too long):

#1 is from a marginalized community.
<Manning1>
I was stunned the first time I read this, it's literally laugh out loud funny looking at it again. I don't have an opinion on pitbulls, but marginalized community? Fucking lol.

“One of the reasons why they chose the synthetics storyline is because it’s about othering,” theorizes Dr. Thomas Parham III, an African-American communications professor and author of Hailing Frequencies Open: Communication in Star Trek: The Next Generation. “It’s all about othering.”

Yeah, so TNG already covered this, THOROUGHLY, over many episodes 30 fucking years ago. Lol. Remember how above they mention inclusion being important meow, in 2020? Yeah, the writers understood that decades ago, you fucking hacks, Star Trek has always has social justice woven into it, in fact that's in the foundation of the shows. There's a TNG episode dedicated to Data being legally considered a living being with all the rights of one, with Picard as his advocate. Measure of a Man, IIRC. In Picard, "synths" are used in exactly the way that was outlawed in that episode. TNG also made the case for other artificial lifeforms having rights, like those floaty maintenance droid things (I don't remember the name), and even nanomachines, and it did so MUCH (I can't emphasize this enough) more intelligently than the one dimensional dumpster fire that is Picard. Oh, and Data was the one who raised a lot of those points and corrected Picard as well as others who were originally dismissive of them being life.

Fucking. Idiots.

"While TNG positioned Captain Picard as an ally to marginalized groups, from Klingons to androids, Picard challenges him to check the privilege he’s enjoyed through various series as an able-bodied male Earthling of elevated Starfleet rank. Here are six times Picard called Picard out during Season 1."

THE KLINGONS WERE NOT A MARGINALIZED GROUP YOU DUMB FUCKS. The Klingon Empire was very powerful, they were a warrior race who loved battle. As mentioned, TNG spent a lot of time focusing on the "othering" of Data and AI, that was a huge aspect of the show, and meow these fucking lazy hacks think they're saying something new.

Able bodied is privilege? What about able minded? We may as well throw literally any average, basic abilities most are born with in as privilege at this point. It's losing its meaning. Don't have cancer? Privilege! Fuck off faux social justicers.

Picard is finally getting old

Since we're so woke, isn't this ageism and victim blaming? Picard got whooped and almost killed, Dahj died because the moron writers forgot that transporters and weapons that stun are a thing in Star Trek.
Picard is strong willed, kinda goes with being a highly decorated and experienced officer in a military organization.


Picard is no longer relevant

Being on the sidelines is tough for almost anyone in any profession who's had a great career. And?

Clancy not respecting Picard cussing at him is just shitty writing.

His resignation wrecked his relationships


Standing up for what he believed in and abandoning an organization he dedicated his life to on principle is actually a very courageous thing to do.

It's the 24th century in Star Trek - "class" is barely a thing in the Federation, it's almost totally socialist. There's no poverty, you almost never see anyone with substance abuse problems. That's the entire premise of the show, humans moved beyond this shit. Injecting present day attitudes and issues in Star Trek goes against the entire premise the series was founded upon. I remember reading elsewhere one of these fucking morons saying Picard "reflects its time" but the whole goddamn point of Star Trek was that it doesn't reflect our time.
I don't know enough about Elnor, gonna assume that's also a dumb point.

And he just keeps messing up

Picard being in colonizer garb at all in Star Trek is fucking dumb, but especially in this circumstance -- the Romulans were an Empire and I'm pretty sure they were colonizers. Lmao, you fucking hacks. The Romulans wouldn't be in this situation just from losing their homeworld anyway. The Federation also, to my knowledge, don't colonize. If a race doesn't want to be a part of the Federation, they leave them alone, sooo...

Picard resigned because the Federation wouldn't help them, so it's meow his fault that they're in this situation when the whole point of him resigning was because he couldn't get Starfleet to help? This show is tripping over its own bullshit. These writers and whoever wrote this article are some of the dumbest and/or at least laziest motherfuckers to ever disgrace that profession.

Kay, so lets talk privilege again: The Romulans weren't defenseless aliens. They had a vast Empire, their ships in the TNG era were more powerful than even the Federation flagship (Picard's), they were an extremely strong and cunning civilization, they used torture, subterfuge, violated treaties, and had slave labor. Apparently none of the people involved with Star Trek nor the writer of this article have actually ever watched it.

Picard and the Federation knew exactly how much "ingenuity, resolve, and self-sufficiency" the Romulans had, lol, the Romulans were a threat to the Federation, and in DS9 the rest of the quadrant needed them to defeat the Dominion and they took the lightest losses of any of the major powers in that war, so even with their homeworld being taken out they'd probably still be as or more powerful than the Federation at this point, unless this show operates in a different universe.

Picard had nothing to do with the situation and his issue with the Federation was that they wouldn't help. Again, c'mon writers, you wrote this garbage, keep track.

But he’s still organic
I can't comment much on this but from what I've seen the "Admontion" is fuckin' dumb to begin with.

The "banning synthetics" part is also stupid unless they pretend every Star Trek show before this didn't happen. Again, the "is AI sentient" thing was put to rest in TNG.

His friends make him a better person

Having good friends is a privilege? Oh fuck off. Generally, to have good friends, you have to earn them. Guinan wasn't the only one to correct Picard on TNG, the whole crew did and they collaborated on solutions to problems, same with every other Trek series. This is how I know whoever wrote this trash didn't watch TNG, like, at all. Plus, speaking of Picard's "humbling" or whatever, Q humbled his ass from the jump. Threw him into the Delta Quadrant and almost got him killed because Picard was arrogant and thought they could handle anything. Picard had to bend the knee to save everyone and Q told him he had no business out there if he "couldn't take a bloody nose", not to mention forcing Picard to review his life in the finale. Again, this was covered in TNG. He went through this thing in TNG called a
c h a r a c t e r_a r c.

He didn't need humbling.

Dumb as a second coat of paint. This show is garbage and the morons making it aren't fans of Star Trek and don't understand it on a fundamental level. I'm still waiting to find out that this was written by an angry intern trying to troll to piss off fans to lower ratings. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Really I would say the biggest mischaracterisation of a lot of what gets called "SJW" cinema/TV tends to be that those making it have some strong political agenda. I mean I can see how this happens as I think getting a reaction out of conservatives is part of what these films/shows are aiming at, basically trolling for attention hoping this will give them the impression of importance.

In reality though I don't think most of them give a flying fuck about the politics they include, its just a cheap shortcut which is why its handled in such a clumsy fashion, as if simply referencing something gives it worth. As you say TNG was often written by people who did actually care about such issues and its why you see it treats them in a much more adult fashion, forcing the viewer to think rather than just slapping them on the back and telling them how great they are. I think something like Fury Road for example does also care about its politics and again treats them in a more adult fashion, that film with Kurtzman in charge would just be Furiosa as a kickass babe killing the evil men, not having to confront her simplistic world view.

A big part of the hackish use of politics tends to be revisionism, because the films/shows involved don't actually have much depth to them they need to promote the idea that covering the issues they do in even a simple fashion is somehow revolutionary. That often means history needs to be re written and earlier(often much more intelligent) works that cover those issues are ignored or mischaracterised. The idea that simply casting a female or black lead in an action blockbuster is a massive push foreword for example.
 
Ok Heading up to Rural Alaska for 4 months for work. Give me some show recommendations to get on DVD or download. Can't really stream while I'm up there, due to 1mb speed DSL internet(That costs nearly$200 a month)

I bought Voyager on DVD(bought TNG on DVD last year). I just downloaded the Expanse and Sea Quest. Looking for things other than the most common greats shows like Sopranos, breaking bad, GOT, etc...
Farscape
 
Ok Heading up to Rural Alaska for 4 months for work. Give me some show recommendations to get on DVD or download. Can't really stream while I'm up there, due to 1mb speed DSL internet(That costs nearly$200 a month)

I bought Voyager on DVD(bought TNG on DVD last year). I just downloaded the Expanse and Sea Quest. Looking for things other than the most common greats shows like Sopranos, breaking bad, GOT, etc...
Andromeda, Dark Matter (cancelled after s2 unfortunately) Burn Notice, Stargate SG1
 
Andromeda, Dark Matter (cancelled after s2 unfortunately) Burn Notice, Stargate SG1

I'd add Atlantis in there. Between the two you get twelve great seasons of sci-fi, and four which suggests they just didn't know when to let a series end.
 
Andromeda, Dark Matter (cancelled after s2 unfortunately) Burn Notice, Stargate SG1

Dark Matter really stood out to me.
A lot of shows got cancelled but this one was a shame.
The plot and effects were good.
And Android was a great role.

I believe it was written by SG-1 writers
 
I don't believe for a second that anybody who actually watched TNG is happy Picard got his comeuppance in STP. Picard was one of the most well liked and respected characters in Trek history. Idk if there are bots or trolls or what on those forums you're talking about....but I guarantee you they're not real TNG fans.
I was trying to keep an open mind and give it a chance to develop. Afterall, I thought TNG was shit, when it first came out, that didn't measure up to the original series. I didn't start watching TNG regularly until the Klingon Civil War episodes (which I think began with the finale of season 3).

That season finale of "Star Trek Picard" was just too much for me to bear though. It was such a major fuck up, I can never give it (or any other CBS Trek show for that matter) a chance again. I want this shit to go back to Paramount, and I want them to hire good Trek writers like Ronald Moore and Manny Coto.
 
Last edited:
26 years ago today. TNG finished its TV run with "All good things"
 
Great article on ENT terrible finale
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/how-enterprise-finale-almost-put-star-trek-ice-1295184

The prequel's final episode — which aired 15 years ago this month — was the worst-received sendoff in the franchise's history.

"It was a kind of a slap in the face to the Enterprise actors. I regret it."

Brannon Braga didn't sugar coat his feelings about Star Trek: Enterprise's infamous 2005 series finale, "These Are the Voyages …", in this 2017 interview addressing the problematic episode he developed and co-wrote with executive producer Rick Berman. While Braga and Berman thought framing the Enterprise finale as a "lost episode" of Star Trek: The Next Generation was a great idea while writing it, Braga soon realized after watching it that "great" was far from an apt description. Fans often credit the episode for putting all the nails in Star Trek's coffin as a viable television franchise, given that it would be a long 12 years before The Final Frontier would be explored again on the small screen, thanks to Star Trek: Discovery. While Enterprise's declining ratings throughout its four-season run (coupled with the series finale's negative reaction) didn't help the franchise, the show's network, UPN, already signed the DNR on both the series and any others' future before the finale aired.

As "These Are the Voyages …" celebrates its 15th anniversary this month, it's time to look back at what went wrong with the story and, surprisingly, what could have gone much, much worse.


Enterprise's isn't the worst series finale ever made, but it's definitely its cousin. Structured as a Commander Riker (Jonathan Frakes) TNG episode that happens to have the entire cast of Enterprise in it, "Voyages" centers on Riker's struggles surrounding the events of TNG's season seven episode "The Pegasus," forcing the Enterprise-D's first officer to use the holodeck to help him solve his problems by revisiting the final mission of Captain Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula) and the crew of the first Enterprise, the NX-01. That means that all the 22nd century scenes featuring Archer and his crew are all holodeck simulations. Yup. For the first-time ever in Trek history, a series ends with holographic versions of the real characters fans spent years following. It's shocking how much wrong they managed to pack into one normal-sized episode of television — the first Trek finale since The Animated Series not to be feature-length.

Braga and Berman, from TNG to Voyager to Enterprise, logged 18 years and hundreds of hours boldly going where no one has gone before. They get how to service and protect Trek. At the same time, even with all their experience, not all ideas are good ones. Given the pressure-cooker atmosphere of making a TV series — let alone one as scrutinized as this underperforming Star Trek prequel — it's hard to get 30,000 feet on a story like this and up against the shadow of one of the best TV series finales ever, TNG’s "All Good Things …", co-written by Braga.

Setting aside the fact that Riker never once mentioned an affinity for Archer, his ship and crew or this time period throughout his entire TNG tenure, making a 24th century character the focus of a series finale that takes place in the 23rd century denies agency to the Enterprise ensemble that deserves the spotlight — not have it stolen by characters who already had their fair share of it. (Marina Sirtis’ Counsellor Troi cameo is more distracting fan service.) Even Bakula was incensed with the story, with Braga recalling that this episode was the first time Enterprise's lead actor ever got confrontational with the writer-producer.


Bringing back popular characters from a more popular Star Trek show to play roles in the finale of a less-popular one feels as much now as an obvious ratings stunt as it did then — and only more problematic. (This wasn't the first time Paramount Television would turn to Next Gen to help/hurt its crown jewel.) The short-term goal of fleeting ratings ultimately soured the legacy of the series in the long-term. What was originally conceived as a "love letter" to fans — and to the other Enterprise-centric Trek shows — "Voyages" felt, as Braga said, like a slap in the face to this one. While Enterprise's main characters lacked the iconic pop-culture resonance of Kirk and Spock or the TNG crew, they deserved more than being curtailed by characters who already had their shot at series finale glory. Revisiting Riker and Troi at a time before "All Good Things …", but after the actors playing them had already made TV history with their final signoff, also retroactively dings Next Gen's satisfying finale. (The show doesn't even let its crew have the last scene together; it ends with Troi and Riker exiting the holodeck and deactivating the Enterprise program.)

Even though Enterprise's main characters come off as guest stars in their own series finale — which, ironically, centers on guest stars — they do manage to have a few scenes that let them shine; good scenes and character beats that deserve a greater showcase. The insanely likable Engineer Charles "Trip" Tucker (Connor Trinneer) is the show's beating heart, so it's a gut punch when he dies after a sacrificial play aboard Enterprise to save his shipmates. That precedes the dramatic scene between Vulcan officer T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) and Archer, moments before giving a speech at a ceremony that will spark the birth of the Federation. And the final montage of CG Enterprises — including Kirk's and Picard's — with their respective captains sharing duties speaking Trek's famous pre-titles "Space, the final frontier …" is impressive. But it could have been so much more; a perfect passing-of-the-torch scene buttoning a finale that serves its heroes instead of giving them lip service.

The finale is filled with good intentions executed less so: That ending montage could have been an all-timer sequence following what should have been one last adventure for the first Enterprise crew ever. Instead, we're left with a dwindling series of returns, a shoulder shrug of a finale for a crew that deserves better than getting sidelined in their series' finale moments. Silver linings? In the 15 years since Enterprise went off the air, streaming has given audiences a chance to revisit the show and see it less as a failure and more as the noble experiment it intended to be — letting the series as a whole age far better than its final hour
 
Great article on ENT terrible finale
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/how-enterprise-finale-almost-put-star-trek-ice-1295184

The prequel's final episode — which aired 15 years ago this month — was the worst-received sendoff in the franchise's history.

"It was a kind of a slap in the face to the Enterprise actors. I regret it."

Brannon Braga didn't sugar coat his feelings about Star Trek: Enterprise's infamous 2005 series finale, "These Are the Voyages …", in this 2017 interview addressing the problematic episode he developed and co-wrote with executive producer Rick Berman. While Braga and Berman thought framing the Enterprise finale as a "lost episode" of Star Trek: The Next Generation was a great idea while writing it, Braga soon realized after watching it that "great" was far from an apt description. Fans often credit the episode for putting all the nails in Star Trek's coffin as a viable television franchise, given that it would be a long 12 years before The Final Frontier would be explored again on the small screen, thanks to Star Trek: Discovery. While Enterprise's declining ratings throughout its four-season run (coupled with the series finale's negative reaction) didn't help the franchise, the show's network, UPN, already signed the DNR on both the series and any others' future before the finale aired.

As "These Are the Voyages …" celebrates its 15th anniversary this month, it's time to look back at what went wrong with the story and, surprisingly, what could have gone much, much worse.


Enterprise's isn't the worst series finale ever made, but it's definitely its cousin. Structured as a Commander Riker (Jonathan Frakes) TNG episode that happens to have the entire cast of Enterprise in it, "Voyages" centers on Riker's struggles surrounding the events of TNG's season seven episode "The Pegasus," forcing the Enterprise-D's first officer to use the holodeck to help him solve his problems by revisiting the final mission of Captain Jonathan Archer (Scott Bakula) and the crew of the first Enterprise, the NX-01. That means that all the 22nd century scenes featuring Archer and his crew are all holodeck simulations. Yup. For the first-time ever in Trek history, a series ends with holographic versions of the real characters fans spent years following. It's shocking how much wrong they managed to pack into one normal-sized episode of television — the first Trek finale since The Animated Series not to be feature-length.

Braga and Berman, from TNG to Voyager to Enterprise, logged 18 years and hundreds of hours boldly going where no one has gone before. They get how to service and protect Trek. At the same time, even with all their experience, not all ideas are good ones. Given the pressure-cooker atmosphere of making a TV series — let alone one as scrutinized as this underperforming Star Trek prequel — it's hard to get 30,000 feet on a story like this and up against the shadow of one of the best TV series finales ever, TNG’s "All Good Things …", co-written by Braga.

Setting aside the fact that Riker never once mentioned an affinity for Archer, his ship and crew or this time period throughout his entire TNG tenure, making a 24th century character the focus of a series finale that takes place in the 23rd century denies agency to the Enterprise ensemble that deserves the spotlight — not have it stolen by characters who already had their fair share of it. (Marina Sirtis’ Counsellor Troi cameo is more distracting fan service.) Even Bakula was incensed with the story, with Braga recalling that this episode was the first time Enterprise's lead actor ever got confrontational with the writer-producer.


Bringing back popular characters from a more popular Star Trek show to play roles in the finale of a less-popular one feels as much now as an obvious ratings stunt as it did then — and only more problematic. (This wasn't the first time Paramount Television would turn to Next Gen to help/hurt its crown jewel.) The short-term goal of fleeting ratings ultimately soured the legacy of the series in the long-term. What was originally conceived as a "love letter" to fans — and to the other Enterprise-centric Trek shows — "Voyages" felt, as Braga said, like a slap in the face to this one. While Enterprise's main characters lacked the iconic pop-culture resonance of Kirk and Spock or the TNG crew, they deserved more than being curtailed by characters who already had their shot at series finale glory. Revisiting Riker and Troi at a time before "All Good Things …", but after the actors playing them had already made TV history with their final signoff, also retroactively dings Next Gen's satisfying finale. (The show doesn't even let its crew have the last scene together; it ends with Troi and Riker exiting the holodeck and deactivating the Enterprise program.)

Even though Enterprise's main characters come off as guest stars in their own series finale — which, ironically, centers on guest stars — they do manage to have a few scenes that let them shine; good scenes and character beats that deserve a greater showcase. The insanely likable Engineer Charles "Trip" Tucker (Connor Trinneer) is the show's beating heart, so it's a gut punch when he dies after a sacrificial play aboard Enterprise to save his shipmates. That precedes the dramatic scene between Vulcan officer T'Pol (Jolene Blalock) and Archer, moments before giving a speech at a ceremony that will spark the birth of the Federation. And the final montage of CG Enterprises — including Kirk's and Picard's — with their respective captains sharing duties speaking Trek's famous pre-titles "Space, the final frontier …" is impressive. But it could have been so much more; a perfect passing-of-the-torch scene buttoning a finale that serves its heroes instead of giving them lip service.

The finale is filled with good intentions executed less so: That ending montage could have been an all-timer sequence following what should have been one last adventure for the first Enterprise crew ever. Instead, we're left with a dwindling series of returns, a shoulder shrug of a finale for a crew that deserves better than getting sidelined in their series' finale moments. Silver linings? In the 15 years since Enterprise went off the air, streaming has given audiences a chance to revisit the show and see it less as a failure and more as the noble experiment it intended to be — letting the series as a whole age far better than its final hour
The Enterprise finale was trash for many, many reasons. Brannon and Braga took over writing duties from Manny Coto for that episode, and it showed.
 
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