Television The Star Trek Thread V6.0

[deviake]

I would say the writing wasn't as consistent as TNG and perhaps the cast as a whole maybe not quite as good but I think it also hit greater highs dramatically and the Cardasians are definitely the best alien race in Trek with Garak, Dukat(pre pah wraith anyway), Tain and Damar some of the best characters, Kira by far the best Trek female character as well IMHO.

I do think the rivalry with Babylon 5 actually worked very well for both shows as well, both constantly pushing forward trying to outdo each other.

The writing gets more consistent as it goes on, although TNG tackles more interesting moral quandaries and definitely phenomena (w/some notable exceptions being some in the Dominion War), but I think the cast & characters on DS9 are GOAT tier, in fact I'd say that's its biggest strength followed by the overall story it tells. The characters on TNG for the most part are good but kinda flat in comparison. Every one of them is interesting and well developed on DS9, even Nog and Jake. The main cast, the villains, the allies, and even the mirror characters are fantastic. Worf isn't such a pushover either, lol. Garak is one of the best characters in all of ST.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The writing gets more consistent as it goes on, although TNG tackles more interesting moral quandaries and definitely phenomena (w/some notable exceptions being some in the Dominion War), but I think the cast & characters on DS9 are GOAT tier, in fact I'd say that's its biggest strength followed by the overall story it tells. The characters on TNG for the most part are good but kinda flat in comparison. Every one of them is interesting and well developed on DS9, even Nog and Jake. The main cast, the villains, the allies, and even the mirror characters are fantastic. Worf isn't such a pushover either, lol. Garak is one of the best characters in all of ST.

The characters(rather than the cast) I'd agree do have more depth than TNG were only really Picard, Data and Worf are given depth to the same kind of degree. Being more of a serial obviously helped but the nature of the writing as well is more character focused by nature of being stuck in one place as the basic setting.

I think the difference between Ro and Kira is quite revealing, the former was obviously planed to take the latters role but actually Kira is a significant improvement IMHO. Ro works in a supporting role in TNG but is rather lacking in subtly, Kira has a lot of the same traits but things like being religious and her terrorist past make for a more interesting character.

 

[deviake]

The characters(rather than the cast) I'd agree do have more depth than TNG were only really Picard, Data and Worf are given depth to the same kind of degree. Being more of a serial obviously helped but the nature of the writing as well is more character focused by nature of being stuck in one place as the basic setting.

I think the difference between Ro and Kira is quite revealing, the former was obviously planed to take the latters role but actually Kira is a significant improvement IMHO. Ro works in a supporting role in TNG but is rather lacking in subtly, Kira has a lot of the same traits but things like being religious and her terrorist past make for a more interesting character.

For sure, though I like the cast of DS9 better as well, TNG has better individual stories but DS9 absolutely smokes it character wise in my opinion. I even like Morn and Vic, Morn is oddly endearing.

I'd throw Barkley in as an interesting TNG character though he wasn't in a lot of it. Agreed about Ro and Kira, I forgot about Ro, I like her. I think I need to rewatch some TNG at some point.

 

[Clippy]

 

[Deleted member 110072]

For sure, though I like the cast of DS9 better as well, TNG has better individual stories but DS9 absolutely smokes it character wise in my opinion. I even like Morn and Vic, Morn is oddly endearing.

I'd throw Barkley in as an interesting TNG character though he wasn't in a lot of it. Agreed about Ro and Kira, I forgot about Ro, I like her. I think I need to rewatch some TNG at some point.

TNG characters did tend to be broader I'd say because again outside of Picard, Data and Worf you didn't get many episodes that gave as much room for subtly. Ro I think worked well as a supporting role in TNG playing up the pissed off rebel personality but the same character in DS9 would have become grating quite quickly. Maybe she would have shifted to become closer to Kira who had a lot of the same personality elements but played rather more subtly which worked as a leading(arguably THE lead dramatically) character in DS9.

 

[sverre054]

I'm watching that DS9 episode with Morn falking his own death.
All of his gangmates from Liseppian Mothers Day heist try to
get their share of the 1000 bars of gold pressed latinum from Quark.

Fun fact, Morn was actually suppose to speak at the end of the episodes, but producers removed the line. If the actor was given a speaking role, he would then have had to been paid as an actor with lines as opposed to a background actor. Everytime you would see him sitting at the bar, the actor would be getting full SAG union pay, making thousands an episode. Instead he about $200 an episode.

 

[JDragon]

Fun fact, Morn was actually suppose to speak at the end of the episodes, but producers removed the line. If the actor was given a speaking role, he would then have had to been paid as an actor with lines as opposed to a background actor. Everytime you would see him sitting at the bar, the actor would be getting full SAG union pay, making thousands an episode. Instead he about $200 an episode.

Interesting:

Shepherd is an artist and has created numerous abstract impressionist paintings, mixing media types into photomosaics. Twenty-three of his works have been used as set dressing on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

 

[Clippy]

Fun fact, Morn was actually suppose to speak at the end of the episodes, but producers removed the line. If the actor was given a speaking role, he would then have had to been paid as an actor with lines as opposed to a background actor. Everytime you would see him sitting at the bar, the actor would be getting full SAG union pay, making thousands an episode. Instead he about $200 an episode.

Thinking of technicalities

What if he never spoke but was dubbed over by another actor?

 

[deviake]

TNG characters did tend to be broader I'd say because again outside of Picard, Data and Worf you didn't get many episodes that gave as much room for subtly. Ro I think worked well as a supporting role in TNG playing up the pissed off rebel personality but the same character in DS9 would have become grating quite quickly. Maybe she would have shifted to become closer to Kira who had a lot of the same personality elements but played rather more subtly which worked as a leading(arguably THE lead dramatically) character in DS9.

I get what you're saying, I'm just saying they didn't have much personality, much character, regardless of development. They weren't bad, they worked for the show.

 

[Philo-Publius]

So, are any of the CBS All Access Trek shows any good? I just got a password for it from my brother.

They suck.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Deep space nine is probably my favourite Star Trek

It's really a razor thin competition between DS9 and TNG, but I agree. How did they abandon a formula like that?

 

[sverre054]

Thinking of technicalities

What if he never spoke but was dubbed over by another actor?

It has to do with SAG rules, so I think he gets paid, regardless if they later decided to overdub him.

Voyager had to use the same background actors, throughout the show, since it was supposed to be such a small crew. There are a few actors who had 50+ appearances but never had a speaking role.

 

[Clippy]

 

[sverre054]

It's really a razor thin competition between DS9 and TNG, but I agree. How did they abandon a formula like that?

Well you have to remember back then DS9 wasn't as loved, as it is today. DS9 was always kinda the bastard step child of Trek. It never had the ratings TNG did. Also it was harder to syndicate, due to the serialization. I do remember watching it on TV as a kid, and would sometimes not really know whats going on, since I missed a few episodes, and had no idea who these new characters are.

DS9 and to a lesser extent, Enterprise, really rose in popularity the last decade, due to people rediscovering them on streaming services.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Well you have to remember back then DS9 wasn't as loved, as it is today. DS9 was always kinda the bastard step child of Trek. It never had the ratings TNG did. Also it was harder to syndicate, due to the serialization. I do remember watching it on TV as a kid, and would sometimes not really know whats going on, since I missed a few episodes, and had no idea who these new characters are.

DS9 and to a lesser extent, Enterprise, really rose in popularity the last decade, due to people rediscovering them on streaming services.

I suspect part of it is that the US seemed more resistant to serial drama in these kinds of shows at the time, DS9 and Babylon 5 seemed like they went down much better in Europe than the US.

 

[sverre054]

I suspect part of it is that the US seemed more resistant to serial drama in these kinds of shows at the time, DS9 and Babylon 5 seemed like they went down much better in Europe than the US.

What made it really hard, was Star Trek shows were all syndicated, so sold to the highest bidder. Those channels would often move when they played a show on a whim or would preempt it for things like local Baseball games. Wasn't like you CBS or BBC where you no your show will be on, this day at this time every week.

 

[Philo-Publius]

Well you have to remember back then DS9 wasn't as loved, as it is today. DS9 was always kinda the bastard step child of Trek. It never had the ratings TNG did. Also it was harder to syndicate, due to the serialization. I do remember watching it on TV as a kid, and would sometimes not really know whats going on, since I missed a few episodes, and had no idea who these new characters are.

DS9 and to a lesser extent, Enterprise, really rose in popularity the last decade, due to people rediscovering them on streaming services.

I remember all of that. I also remember how unpopular TNG was initially. Still, they created a formula that was a huge success after 7 seasons in both cases. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I remember all of that. I also remember how unpopular TNG was initially. Still, they created a formula that was a huge success after 7 seasons in both cases. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I think part of the problem with Voyager though is that it started off more like DS9 but then tried to shift into being TNG.

The TNG characters were really designed to fit into weekly stories, not just in their duties but in their personalities/abilities, you had a certain plot element and a certain character naturally fit into it. The DS9 characters were designed much more for progression in the drama across the series and I think Voyager started off potentially doing the same then lost their nerve and tried to go back to TNG. When you undercut the whole divided/isolated crew aspect though you really lost a lot of what potentially made the show interesting and a lot of the characters were really pretty interchangeable.

 

[Philo-Publius]

I think part of the problem with Voyager though is that it started off more like DS9 but then tried to shift into being TNG.

The TNG characters were really designed to fit into weekly stories, not just in their duties but in their personalities/abilities, you had a certain plot element and a certain character naturally fit into it. The DS9 characters were designed much more for progression in the drama across the series and I think Voyager started off potentially doing the same then lost their nerve and tried to go back to TNG. When you undercut the whole divided/isolated crew aspect though you really lost a lot of what potentially made the show interesting and a lot of the characters were really pretty interchangeable.

There really wasn't much I liked about Voyager. I thought most of the characters were just lame, and they didn't develop over the seasons very well like the characters from TNG and DS9 did. The writing for Voyager was also inferior to the other installments.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

There really wasn't much I liked about Voyager. I thought most of the characters were just lame, and they didn't develop over the seasons very well like the characters from TNG and DS9 did. The writing for Voyager was also inferior to the other installments.

Again I think it was setup for their to be tension between the Starfleet and Marquis characters but very quickly they dropped that aspect and without it you were left without many interesting characters. It would be like DS9 barely using the whole Barjoran/Cardassian story after the pilot.