The Soviet school of boxing

[shpboris]

this guy, Lemishev, is Russian Tommy Hearns. He was naturally gifted with a thunderbolt straight right hand. It is completely foolish to judge about the Soviet boxing style with this example solely

SOME of the things he did are actually classic soviet school. And he was never anything like Tommy Hearns lol He had pure counterpunching style unlike Tommy Hearns ... The only similarity between those two was big power in right hand ....

But real and classic product of soviet boxing was Boris Lagutin - I posted his video earlier in this thread.

 

[NVSemin]

SOME of the things he did are actually classic soviet school.

I do not know where you got your info ... He was knocking everybody out with his right. I also heard, that if he were "schooled", he would be completely ordinary. It was a miracle some coach found this talent and did not let it to be framed into some "school" crap

 

[shpboris]

I do not know where you got your info ... He was knocking everybody out with his right. I also heard, that if he were "schooled", he would be completely ordinary. It was a miracle some coach found this talent and did not let it to be framed into some "school" crap

His stance, in-out movement, his lead hand - all those are classic to soviet school.

But I definitely agree, that him almost purely relying on counterpunching and ko power with that right hand is not usual style for soviet boxers.

 

[Sinister]

Interesting why this happened to "american system" ?

By the way, funny part, that when soviet specialists will comment on fights of, let us say, James Toney, they would say that he has s problem with his technique as his left hand is low ... They don't recognize that this is part of the system ... They view it as a technical flaw ...

There have been a few "changing of the guard" scenarios with American Amateur boxing. What it looks like is that they tried to emulate other Countries. Olympic facility, all fighters having the same trainer, etc. Only what's unclear is why they picked the head trainers they did. Even in the Olympics where Freddie Roach was a guest assistant Coach, he said he did not agree with a lot of what was going on there and it seemed nonsensical and counterproductive. Right now USA Boxing is attempting to undo a lot of those things, like once again allowing fighters' individual trainers to accompany them to the Olympics, as opposed to having to turn them over to a differently or lesser educated trainer.

I also suspect the scoring system had a lot to do with it, and the US wasn't the only Country to develop boxers whose styles were relatively unpleasing, based on tapping and running to beat the scoring system. But it never did quite work out, obviously.

What's the differences between the Cuban and the Russian systems?

The Cubans basically took a lot of what the Russians did and ran with it. There was a long time where they were allies politically, and Sport data was just a part of what they shared. For instance the Cuban way of turning over the long hook (the punch they call "el swing") was initially developed by Russians, they just streamlined it. They also added a lot more rhythmic footwork and combination punching.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

From the youtube vids I have seen, it looks like they throw lots of jabs, but they are not power jabs. They hold it out far so they can make quick contact, and once they extend, they do not bring it straight back, but down and then back up, like a loop. Also it seems they don't tuck their chins. They have a more loose stance. They are not all tensed up like American fighters.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

The Cubans basically took a lot of what the Russians did and ran with it. There was a long time where they were allies politically, and Sport data was just a part of what they shared. For instance the Cuban way of turning over the long hook (the punch they call "el swing") was initially developed by Russians, they just streamlined it. They also added a lot more rhythmic footwork and combination punching.

So its basically the same thing but the Cubans added some cha-cha-cha to it, eh?

 

[Sinister]

For all basic purposes, yes. Well, they added salsa.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

Just sharing this very nice video of a cuban amateur warming up

 

[Oldknees]

For all basic purposes, yes. Well, they added salsa.

Who would have guessed borscht and salsa would go together so well

 

[Sinister]

Badum tsch!

 

[MurphysLawyer]

I think a lot of the differences in the styles produced by each system could also be traced back to the desired end-state of the fighters. In America, no matter the desire of the individual fighter, there is always the influence of the pro ranks on his training. Pro boxing and amateur are two very different animals. Because the Russians and Cubans were forbidden to go pro for a long time, the school of boxing that developed there was one that was purely optimized to win medals in individual competitions- in America, the amateur ranks were a training grounds for the pros, and reflected this sty;listically

 

[Sinister]

Eh, yes And no. The main reason Cuban and Eastern Bloc defectors tend to have a hard time has little to do with their boxing styles and more to do with social standards. Suddenly having access to money, food, and significantly less pressure (sometimes being coddled by big money investors treating them well BEFORE they do anything in the Pros).

It's not that their styles wouldn't translate well into the Pro ranks per se, more that their living standards don't equip them well for how to behave as a productive professional. Then there's the burnout factor. 300+ fights makes for wear and tear, even if it's only Amateur boxing. Many of them have come out of the Amateur ranks aged beyond their actual years. Yan Barthelemy, Antonio Izquierdo, Matt Korobov, Kid Diamond (Ryamkulov, I think) all fit into that category.

 

[MurphysLawyer]

I was referring more to the actual fighting styles themselves being a product of their goals- the Soviet long range, pot-shotting, footwork heavy style is pretty optimal for international amateur competition, whereas the heavier infighting component of Western systems will be more useful in pro ranks.

You are 100% right about the reason for the underperformance of so many promising Cubans and Russians though. I think I remember reading some interview with Odlanier Solis or his coach where it was pretty explicitly stated that he got fat and undisciplined because he wasn't mentally equipped to handle the event of ice cream being available all the time.

On a side note from another thread, i really hope that fate doesn't fall on vasyl Lomachenko. that kid is amazing to watch and I'll be sorely disappointed if he tanks as a pro

 

[shpboris]

Sorry for being a liitle bit off topic.

I wonder what you\other guys think about this Teofilo Stevenson fight against soviet boxer Zaev ... I tried to get some answers in another thread, bu nobody responded.


1.
Is the tactic that Zaev used to occupy Stevenson jab worth trying to develop ?

2.
Why it worked so well against 3-time Olimpic champion who on top of that had a good jab and big reach advantage ?

3.
Why nobody can execute the same against Klichko ?

[YT]AEgKQXP5j30[/YT]

 

[MurphysLawyer]

Sorry for being a liitle bit off topic.

I wonder what you\other guys think about this Teofilo Stevenson fight against soviet boxer Zaev ... I tried to get some answers in another thread, bu nobody responded.


1.
Is the tactic that Zaev used to occupy Stevenson jab worth trying to develop ?

2.
Why it worked so well against 3-time Olimpic champion who on top of that had a good jab and big reach advantage ?

3.
Why nobody can execute the same against Klichko ?

[YT]AEgKQXP5j30[/YT]

Honestly, all three of your questions are above my pay grade. I could try to give you answers, but it wouldn't be much more than wild ass guessing I'm afraid

 

[Sinister]

I was referring more to the actual fighting styles themselves being a product of their goals- the Soviet long range, pot-shotting, footwork heavy style is pretty optimal for international amateur competition, whereas the heavier infighting component of Western systems will be more useful in pro ranks.

You are 100% right about the reason for the underperformance of so many promising Cubans and Russians though. I think I remember reading some interview with Odlanier Solis or his coach where it was pretty explicitly stated that he got fat and undisciplined because he wasn't mentally equipped to handle the event of ice cream being available all the time.

On a side note from another thread, i really hope that fate doesn't fall on vasyl Lomachenko. that kid is amazing to watch and I'll be sorely disappointed if he tanks as a pro

Well, I do think their style of fighting at range is superior to the continental American style. Another good example of that is Rigondeaux's complete dismantling of Nonito Donaire.

 

[Heavy-D]

Forgive what's probably a stupid generalization, but it seems like most Russian boxers are wearing moonshoes and can't stop bouncing the entire time. I understand it keeps them more "loosey goosey" or whatever, but I'd imagine most people could time that pretty easily. Don't seem as prominent these days, but I haven't been following boxing closely for years now.

 

[Sinister]

Yeah, nah.

 

[MurphysLawyer]

Well, I do think their style of fighting at range is superior to the continental American style. Another good example of that is Rigondeaux's complete dismantling of Nonito Donaire.

Man.... I like Donaire, but Rigo just made him look like a child. People hammer on about Nonito not watching the tape on Rigo, but no amount of tape watching is going to allow you to bridge a skill gap that huge

 

[shpboris]

Honestly, all three of your questions are above my pay grade. I could try to give you answers, but it wouldn't be much more than wild ass guessing I'm afraid

Sorry for being a liitle bit off topic.

I wonder what you\other guys think about this Teofilo Stevenson fight against soviet boxer Zaev ... I tried to get some answers in another thread, bu nobody responded.


1.
Is the tactic that Zaev used to occupy Stevenson jab worth trying to develop ?

2.
Why it worked so well against 3-time Olimpic champion who on top of that had a good jab and big reach advantage ?

3.
Why nobody can execute the same against Klichko ?

[YT]AEgKQXP5j30[/YT]

Sinister/other knowledgeable guys - any chance somebody can answer those questions ?