The Soviet school of boxing

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by MurphysLawyer, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. MurphysLawyer

    MurphysLawyer Orange Belt

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    For those of you in the know, how fundamentally do the training methods of the big former Soviet boxing countries (Russia, Ukraine, the assorted 'Stan countries, and to a lesser extent Cuba) differ from the Western/American pedagogy?

    I understand there were several factors at work determining their success outside of simple training methodologies- early selection for aptitude, being a professional amateur- but nonetheless the training style of the for Eastern bloc seems to have produced a high number of sound technicians.

    The differences I've been able to find are-

    1. A far more standardized training schedule for teaching the basics- there was a very certain order in which a novice would be taught certain things. I didn't get my base in a traditional boxing gym, but from what I've seen the American method seems more haphazard.

    2. A MUCH higher emphasis on shadowboxing and sparring drills as primary training methods as opposed to the Western emphasis on (my experience) heavy bag, mitt work, and free sparring. Also, shadowboxing is looked at as a time to refine technique and practice certain skills, whereas many american boxers seem to relegate it to use as a warm-up exercise

    3. A more thorough scientific dissection of the physical qualities that create successful boxers, and a resulting progress in the choice of conditioning exercises. The traditional prescription for conditioning in the West seems to be endless situps, pushups, and roadwork, with a little neck work and some pullups thrown in and maybe a medicine ball every now and then if the coach is feeling froggy.

    Have I missed anything, or does anyone have anything to add to this? I hope so
     
  2. goldennboy

    goldennboy Brown Belt

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    As much as i love russian boxing, their skills are tremendous and they are extreme perfectionists. But, i think cuban boxing > russian boxing.
     
  3. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    A much higher emphasis on physiology. Correct posture, hip-rotation, strength and conditioning programs that develop fighters to do what is being asked of them. Also more focus on balance and positioning as opposed to winning solely on attrition.
     
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  4. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    In all fairness, though. Cuban boxing as we know it wouldn't even exist without the Russians.
     
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  5. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Just as somebody, who comes from former USSR, I would like to point out that a lot of former USSR coaches questioned the superiority of their system compared to US :):)

    The things that they would always mention about "american system" are

    1.
    Better tequnique on inside and mid range. As soviet system would advocates fighting on long range.

    2.
    Better defensive techunique with slipping\ducking\bobbing a weaving

    3.
    Better combination punching. Especially involving non-straight punches.
     
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  6. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Russian system is more about those:

    1.
    Fighting from long distance

    2.
    Good balance and footwork with emphasys on constant in-and-out
    motion (called "chelnok" in russian).

    3.
    Good loose lead hand, which should always be working and disturbing the opponent.

    4.
    Straight punches
     
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  7. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Watch this video of Boris Lagutin.
    He was a superstar in USSR and a classic product of the soviet system.

    [YT]rcNnQ1AjKUc[/YT]
     
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  8. sangreporsangre

    sangreporsangre Gold Belt

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    I actually saw a documentary contrasting the American vs the Soviet training methods. Was very interesting to say the least, cant remember what it was called.

    edit: found it

    [YT]ye8jddRP-bs[/YT]
     
  9. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    This video is a MUST see - this guy was bigger than Ali in USSR :) !

    [YT]HhFMR62_l5U[/YT]
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Problem is the American system has significantly degraded in the past decade. Hence, no Olympic success. Also, there's not really a distinct young American standout. Mayweather is 36. Mosley is done. Hopkins is almost Broner is okay, but he's more sizzle than steak. Bradley is as good as the recent Amateur system here has produced, and he recently almost got knocked out by an underdog in Provodnikov (sp).
     
  11. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Interesting why this happened to "american system" ?

    By the way, funny part, that when soviet specialists will comment on fights of, let us say, James Toney, they would say that he has s problem with his technique as his left hand is low ... They don't recognize that this is part of the system ... They view it as a technical flaw ...
     
  12. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    My current coach is a pro kick boxer and mma fighter, so in his 10+ years of training and fighting he's picked up some western boxing along the way. I was demonstrating slips, stance, and posture via the tile exercise and some double end bag videos sinister posted. He said it reminded him of training in Seattle, that the Russians who came in all fought like that, where as he and the rest of the 'muricans had a style and posture more like Tyson's.

    Basically just like you explained here
     
  13. Cyclone Mike

    Cyclone Mike Amateur Fighter

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    What's the differences between the Cuban and the Russian systems?
     
  14. NVSemin

    NVSemin Orange Belt

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    This system comparison is bullshit
    If we skip conditioning part, there are coaches who understand the fundamentals and there are coaches who know drills. Both in US and Russia, there are a way more of the second type
     
  15. MurphysLawyer

    MurphysLawyer Orange Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    It's definitely not bullshit.

    Different sporting cultures emphasize different things. What American coaches consider fundamentals might be completely foreign to Russians, and vice versa.
     
  17. MurphysLawyer

    MurphysLawyer Orange Belt

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    I've noticed the style difference for sure. not to get too esoteric, but when Bruce Lee describes the boxing/fencing connection, the Russian style always came to mind. I've seen former Soviet bloc fighters who break the style mold, and certainly more so recently, but by and large they really do tend to follow type very closely.

    Since you seem to have some experience training over there, could you perhaps give me a sketch of what a typical practice looks like? I find that kind of stuff fascinating
     
  18. Ignoramus

    Ignoramus Orange Belt

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    If he dies, he dies.
     
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  19. Sano

    Sano Red Belt

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    Nice video, he took care of business. What's his name ?
     
  20. NVSemin

    NVSemin Orange Belt

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    this guy, Lemishev, is Russian Tommy Hearns. He was naturally gifted with a thunderbolt straight right hand. It is completely foolish to judge about the Soviet boxing style with this example solely
     

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