"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

He’s had this problem since his prime. Not sure how anything has changed. There is a reason he had to go like 9-0 to get a shot at GSP.
 
drbolony said:
Yes Josh Burkman is better than Chimaev.
Click to expand...

The most puzzling thing to me about Fitch was that loss and the draw with an undersized BJ, while beating practically everyone at WW in his era except GSP and Hendricks in the UFC. Then he left the UFC and beat Shields and Okami (after the Burkman loss) and had a draw with Rory at age 41.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
Regarding submissions, my instinct is that within an MMA context, submission offense has more or less stayed at the same level in absolute terms, while submission defense and positional knowledge more generally has increased a meaningful amount.

You can't really run to the number of submissions as the determinant for how versed in submission grappling fighters are, since they can be the result of either great submission offense or terrible submission defense. You have to look at the tapes/fights to evaluate that (IMO).
Click to expand...

As much as I didn't like the stuff he did Palhares was kind of an anomaly in the more modern MMA era. He submitted guys that almost no one else could (Shields, Fitch, Pierce, Branch) due to his (very questionable) strength, unusually good leg locks and the pure fear of him getting ahold of a limb.
 
mkt said:
The most puzzling thing to me about Fitch was that loss and the draw with an undersized BJ, while beating practically everyone at WW in his era except GSP and Hendricks in the UFC. Then he left the UFC and beat Shields and Okami (after the Burkman loss) and had a draw with Rory at age 41.
Click to expand...

In MMA, even the greatest have upset losses as the Burkman sub. Fitch actually stands out for being very reliable in that regard, he went like 13-1 in UFC at some point.
The BJ draw I'd say speaks about BJ's p4p skill more than anything else. There is a trend of LWs giving top WWs problems still today.
Fitch beat Shields and Okami in rather uneventful fights far from their best version. Overall, I'd say they all had similar careers; rather elite gatekeepers than champions imo. Shields stands out the most due to the nº of all-time great competition he faced and better finishing ability
 
Last edited:
pankrat said:
The BJ draw I'd say speaks about BJ's p4p skill more than anything else. There is a trend of LWs giving top WWs problems still today.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that was BJ's last good fight and he caught Fitch off-guard by choosing to offensively wrestle. Once Fitch caught on he started doing better. I also think it was a bit of an off-night for Fitch. Overall, Fitch did have a really good career-especially the way he ended it by drawing with a much younger Rory. I definitely a younger version of him could've been a champ in Bellator or Strikeforce (like Shields) or even in the UFC if GSP hadn't have been around. I don't think he'd defend his UFC belt 9 times like GSP did, but I could see him winning a defending a few times.
 
So basically hes saying that fighters aren't allowed to steroid so easily anymore.
 
AssassinFacedBaby said:
Okay buddy, two dominant wins over prime Alves, win over prime Sanchez, dominant wins over Okami and Shields & a 14-3-1 UFC Record. Yeah he totally sucks. Retard
Click to expand...
Don't forget him killing the Erick Silva hype train (Silva did look like a pretty good fighter at the time). He only lost to prime GSP, prime Hendricks (who could KO anyone) and Maia, who was a beast when he first dropped to WW. And Maia couldn't sub him.
 
Lol at that nonsense

there’s a much larger talent pool to choose from and far less specialists/1 trick ponies. There’s much more talent now than when Fitch was in his prime.
 
Someone like Fitch who has terrible standup would struggle today. If he had Khabib’s takedowns, GNP and top game he’d do extremely well but very few are good enough to always get the takedown. Khabib, Usman, ... who else is there?
 
Phisher said:
The fights always start standing, so stand up should be the most important part of your game.
Click to expand...

It's true but also BS how the modern development of the rules led to favoring standup fighters overwhelmingly. Referee standups, inactivity restarts off the clinch, 5 minute rounds, promoter pressure to stand and KO, and restarting standing at the start of every round. The rules encourage standup fighting because it caters to the casual fan, and they need to because casual fans >> hardcore fans in numbers.

I think the UFC should start the fight where it left off when the rounds progress. For example it round 1 ended with fighter B on bottom mount under fighter A, round 2 should start in the same position. Contrary to what people think, I think we would actually see more stoppages and finishes on the ground like this. It is unfair to grapplers to take away the effort they did in one round by the sound of the bell. Standup fighters are favored by nature of "rounds" and the only way that can be taken away is if they are restarted in the same grappling situation they were stuck in at the end of the previous round

Phisher said:
Look at a guy like Reyes. Yeah, he has a couple of sub wins, but his ground game is primarily geared around standing back up immediately no matter what the cost is, and it's worked for him.
Click to expand...

That didn't work out too well for him tonight did it? Live by the sword, die by the sword. I'm sure if he had more effort put into takedowns, wall n stall, lay n pray, he would've had a better fighting chance and his brain would've thanked him more
 
daniel san said:
Someone like Fitch who has terrible standup would struggle today. If he had Khabib’s takedowns, GNP and top game he’d do extremely well but very few are good enough to always get the takedown. Khabib, Usman, ... who else is there?
Click to expand...


If there are not many, it's exactly what Fith says: standup fighting is encouraged by the promoters.
How is that Adesanya and Khabib have both barely fought an elite wrestler up until this point in UFC?

Still, Cejudo, DJ, Cormier, Jones and Miocic rely on their TDs often
Anyways you are talking about champions.
Fitch wasn't a champion. He could still outgrapple most WWs in the UFC today
 
Taric said:
You: Skill level is at an all-time high in MMA because fighters aren't capable of performing submissions and finishes on each other
Me: The best submission grapplers in the world are still submitting each other at a very high rate and the best boxers/kickboxers/etc are still knocking each other out at a very high rate
You: Exactly
Me: <Huh2>

I'm out. This dude is high as fuck lol
Click to expand...

High or not..

A lot harder to submit someone who's raining down elbows or punching you..

And it's a lot easier to land a flashy kick on someone who's not going to take you down..

Those sports are geared towards these results.. if a losing boxer could just take his opponent down there would be less knockouts..

If a grappler in a bad position could punch his way out there would be less submissions..

Ofcourse they are more skilled than most mma fighters but in mma many of those skills become pointless..
 
BJJ Coffee Drinker said:
It's true but also BS how the modern development of the rules led to favoring standup fighters overwhelmingly. Referee standups, inactivity restarts off the clinch, 5 minute rounds, promoter pressure to stand and KO, and restarting standing at the start of every round. The rules encourage standup fighting because it caters to the casual fan, and they need to because casual fans >> hardcore fans in numbers.

I think the UFC should start the fight where it left off when the rounds progress. For example it round 1 ended with fighter B on bottom mount under fighter A, round 2 should start in the same position. Contrary to what people think, I think we would actually see more stoppages and finishes on the ground like this. It is unfair to grapplers to take away the effort they did in one round by the sound of the bell. Standup fighters are favored by nature of "rounds" and the only way that can be taken away is if they are restarted in the same grappling situation they were stuck in at the end of the previous round



That didn't work out too well for him tonight did it? Live by the sword, die by the sword. I'm sure if he had more effort put into takedowns, wall n stall, lay n pray, he would've had a better fighting chance and his brain would've thanked him more
Click to expand...

Yes.. i'd also like to make the sport unwatchable..

Nah.. just kidding.. kind of..

Allow cage grabbing, stomps, soccer kicks, kicking a grounded opponent in the head, kicking in grappling situations and headbutting.. also knees to the head of a grounded opponent and spiking..

Basically anything goes while on the ground.. that way the grappler can't find a safe zone but will also have more methods of ending the fight..

It's increadibly stupid to have different rules for the fight depending on if it's standing or on the ground.. so saying the rules are geared towards the striker is a bit dishonest.. especially as the guy on top/right side of the wall n stall is considered winning even if the guy in the other position does more damage..
 
Jonny Ninja said:
Lol at that nonsense

there’s a much larger talent pool to choose from and far less specialists/1 trick ponies. There’s much more talent now than when Fitch was in his prime.
Click to expand...

Khabib is a specialist.
There is obviously much larger talent today - especially in lighest weighclasses/WMMA, not that much in heavier divisions - but Fitch's point is that such talent is focusing his training in standup to content the promoter (casuals) while giving up training time in ground/grappling skills.

Some "especialists" from back in the day could have given Adesanya a way tougher time than his last tittle challengers. It's pretty telling btw that Adesanya - being a pure striker and undisputed champ - has barely faced an opponent with a heavy takedown gameplan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

mister piscadinha
is gsp over fitch the most dominant performance in the history of mma?
2 3
Replies
59
Views
1K
Cameron
Cameron

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,275,213
Messages
57,975,121
Members
175,889
Latest member
MEthzale

Share this page

Back
Top