"The overall ability has dropped in MMA" - Jon Fitch

[Barteh]

Skill wise most champions back in the day were better than today's champions.

Cain/JDS > Stipe
Jones 5-8 years ago > Jones now (or Jan/Reyes)
Silva > Adesanya
GSP > Usman

Only khabib is the best ever (skill wise not resume wise) in his weight class

 

[ejlarson249]

I think a pretty good argument can be made for this. I think people way overblow how much mma has improved in the last 15 years.

Correct. MMA hasn't improved. The athletes have though. Starting to get way more gifted athletes instead of dumb tough guys.

 

[Taric]

Wow misquoting and no comprehension. You sir are an idiot.

Disagree. Overall ability has risen thats why the older subs and such are not as effective as once where. If the ability dropped we would be seeing basic subs working.

 

[pankrat]

He says they are getting less technical, I say they are getting more efficient and when it comes to efficiency and preserving energy, avoiding the other guys takedowns and punching him in the face is about as energy efficient as you can get. eventually guys will stop bothering with takedowns and ground fighting altogether and we'll be left with boxing in 4 oz gloves in a cage, proving once and for all that boxing is truly the king of all combat sports. deal with it buttscooters

I's about efficiency I agree. Good luck not bothering about TDs and ground fighting with Khabibs around, who dont get hit in the face that much neither

 

[Brettco]

Johnny [double cheeseburger] Whatshisname. Nwadimeen?

 

[pankrat]

lol people think Usman is boring, but if they never saw Fitch then they don't know what that word means. All he did was hold on for dear life, he would just hold guys and throw little baby rabbit punches on their ears and just kill the clock. It was horrific.

UFC 107, I went to this event live, Fitch was on the card that night and he stunk the entire place out, it was awful, the crowd went so flat. I'm not even gonna repeat what many were screaming after round 2. That was a good event and many good fights and the crowd were loud, but the Fitch fight I remember being so damn awful

Both Fitch and Usman are rather boring. Although I usually can enjoy watching them fight, there is a lot of stalling from top/clinch and "rabbit" strikes in both cases.

UFC 107 was vs Mike Pierce; there is a lo to blame on the opponent and the match maker for an awful fight. Fitch had some other pretty good fights, just like Usman.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Regarding submissions, my instinct is that within an MMA context, submission offense has more or less stayed at the same level in absolute terms, while submission defense and positional knowledge more generally has increased a meaningful amount.

You can't really run to the number of submissions as the determinant for how versed in submission grappling fighters are, since they can be the result of either great submission offense or terrible submission defense. You have to look at the tapes/fights to evaluate that (IMO).

 

[spinitch]

Fitch ability has dropped, not sure why he thinks it applies to others. I think skill wise hard to measure. UFC scoring does not help. Out pointing is not how I want to see a fight. Like Pride rules show courage to try to decisively defeat opponent. Going for subs , landing significant strikes. Light jabs and light leg kicks checked are ok for setting up something significant but should not count for much.

 

[Here's Johnny!]

why is Jon Fitch face red

 

[Bearknuckle]

Because u can “win” 80% of the fight by hugging someone, and all they need is 1 punch or kick to put you to sleep.

 

[JohnSAFTAHess]

Dropped

The dude fought 40 times and was finished by strikes twice in his career

 

[mkt]

There are a bunch of best practices for TDD and submission defense that are being trained as fundamentals for MMA now.

Look at a guy like Reyes. Yeah, he has a couple of sub wins, but his ground game is primarily geared around standing back up immediately no matter what the cost is, and it's worked for him.

Chuck Liddell was doing that long before Reyes. There were even a few guys doing that in the 90s, albeit more crudely. The Frye-Bitteti and Burnett-Townsend fights come to mind.

 

[mkt]

He stll was until his 40s, after 15+ years of career.

Yep, had a draw with Rory not long ago. Granted, Rory has been declining for a while, but he was arguable at least a Top 20 WW at the time.

 

[Phisher]

Chuck Liddell was doing that long before Reyes. There were even a few guys doing that in the 90s, albeit more crudely. The Frye-Bitteti and Burnett-Townsend fights come to mind.

Liddell was a four year starter in a NCAA D1 wrestling program.

Reyes converted to MMA from football.

 

[MeatGrinder]

Fitch has to be a liberal

 

[fightfan70]

its all about putting asses in seats.

wall n stall, lay and prey are not fan friendly.

 

[mkt]

I think a pretty good argument can be made for this. I think people way overblow how much mma has improved in the last 15 years.

Not too much at HW and LHW...but definitely some progression in the lower weight classes.The Top 10 LWs from 15 years ago wouldn't fare well against the Top 10 now. "Motivated" BJ Penn would probably fare the best as he really was kind of a prodigy, but Jens Pulver, Aoki, etc. would be no match for Khabib, Gaethje, Poirier, etc.

 

[drbolony]

Yes Josh Burkman is better than Chimaev.

 

[mkt]

Fitch has to be a liberal

Not at all. He has some good stuff on Twitter. But the reality is he maximized his skillsets and abilities and worked really hard. He couldn't have been a KO artists if he spent 40 hours a week hitting bags. I can't blame him for doing the best with what he had...even if it wasn't very exciting most of the time.

 

[pankrat]

its all about putting asses in seats.

wall n stall, lay and prey are not fan friendly.

yeah, Fitch argument is built on that. Obviously he doesnt call "wall n stall" and "lay and prey" because is much more than that