The Official Luta Livre thread

[Kforcer]

Leozado won the ADCC Brazilian trials, so that only makes sense that he'd dominate a national no-gi tournament. His loss to Henderson was a real scorcher of a match and the big issue was that he wasn't playing for points.

 

[uchubaco]

Leozado won the ADCC Brazilian trials, so that only makes sense that he'd dominate a national no-gi tournament. His loss to Henderson was a real scorcher of a match and the big issue was that he wasn't playing for points.

Leozada Nogueira is the true definition of what a Luta Livre practitioner is all about. Always going for the finish, not playing for points and attacking always…it's a kill or be killed mentality.

Shame that his MMA career did not take off like the one of his brother Pequeno. I feel that Leozada skills translate much better to Grappling and Pequenos to MMA.

 

[uchubaco]

Have you guys seen that Nicolas Renier has a Luta Livre concepts DVD out from BJJ Fanatics?

Nope…want to get my hands on it, if anyone wants to make a pool on it, I will take a part on it

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It didn't seem fair to me; I saw a video that seemed to be an unedited version of the fight and it looked as if Duarte took Rickson down initially and then was forced by the crowd to essentially restart the fight. This is all just going off of my memory but it seemed to me that there are selectively edited versions of the fight and an unedited version and that the latter makes Duarte look better and seems to reveal a degree of interference in the bout.

My memory could be wrong and I definitely have full respect for Rickson Gracie. But what I stated seems to be the case to the best of my--possibly flawed--memory.

they fought a second time and rickson smacked him again...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

As far as ll successful practitioners, I have to sa cacareo was the one with the most success...

 

[Kforcer]

they fought a second time and rickson smacked him again...

Sure, but I wasn't denying that. Of course, losing to Rickson is no shame in any event.

 

[Kforcer]

As far as ll successful practitioners, I have to sa cacareo was the one with the most success...

Success in pure grappling, in MMA or both? I don't think I agree, in any event, though I love Cacareco and have definitely learned a lot watching him. Him and Kanehara had a great match--it was sort of a highlight of why Japanese catch and luta livre are so awesome and fun to watch. Two guys taking chances and just going for the submission finish again and again.

 

[uchubaco]

As far as ll successful practitioners, I have to sa cacareo was the one with the most success...

Cacareco was one of the first LL guys who really had success on the bigger weight classes, plus he had a great run in ADCC, but his time at the spotlight, plus his winning ways were really short. Also, he had an awesome Grappling match against Paulo Filho, which ended up in a "Draw"…it had everything, submission attempts, the crowd nearly rioting more than once and a sweet Suplex by Cacareco

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Success in pure grappling, in MMA or both? I don't think I agree, in any event, though I love Cacareco and have definitely learned a lot watching him. Him and Kanehara had a great match--it was sort of a highlight of why Japanese catch and luta livre are so awesome and fun to watch. Two guys taking chances and just going for the submission finish again and again.

Just grappling

 

[Kforcer]

As far as most successful though, Pequeno Nogueira was pound-for-pound one of the very best in the sport, maybe the most dominant champion of his day. Guillotined Noboru Asahi, Rumina Sato and a number of other highly skilled top grapplers. In pure grappling, you have Leonardo Nogueira and Nicholas Renier that are top-flight competitors amongst many others.

 

[Kforcer]

Just grappling

Gotcha. One issue I'd have with making that assessment is my lack of familiarity with the results of luta livre esportiva competitions. I know that for example, Marcelo Brigadeiro did very well on that circuit and defeated Eraldo Paes and some other lauded luta livre competitors but I don't really have details. It'd be like me saying who the best sport sambo competitor of all-time was or something.

 

[uchubaco]

Another forgotten name IMO is Johil de Oliveira as a P4P great in Luta Livre...yes, he had a 7 or 8 fight losing streak, but was after his accident in PRIDE and after a car accident in which he lost the eye sight on his right eye. At the time when he was on top, it was during the Vale Tudo era, having a ten or eleven fight undefeated streak, these were the times of the Tournaments with a 30 minute round. It was really hard to be either undefeated or having a long streak while fighting on these ruleset. Plus he gave Pele his first defeat, won more than one Vale Tudo tournament and was after the fight against Pele, the number one in the World at his weight class.

Yes, his record is not the best...but take in mind that he was a Lightweight fighting against Heavyweights on Vale Tudo fights.

 

[Kforcer]

Another forgotten name IMO is Johil de Oliveira as a P4P great in Luta Livre...yes, he had a 7 or 8 fight losing streak, but was after his accident in PRIDE and after a car accident in which he lost the eye sight on his right eye. At the time when he was on top, it was during the Vale Tudo era, having a ten or eleven fight undefeated streak, these were the times of the Tournaments with a 30 minute round. It was really hard to be either undefeated or having a long streak while fighting on these ruleset. Plus he gave Pele his first defeat, won more than one Vale Tudo tournament and was after the fight against Pele, the number one in the World at his weight class.

Yes, his record is not the best...but take in mind that he was a Lightweight fighting against Heavyweights on Vale Tudo fights.

His record was awesome before he went blind in one eye, I just wish he'd retired after that or something because his record gives the wrong impression about what kind of fighter he was. Although, in a way, I suppose, his record is a testament to his warrior spirit. That guy really loves luta livre--he was championing luta livre in interviews during a time when so many people that had a foundation in luta livre were instead either claiming BJJ or at the very least not giving mention to luta livre.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

As far as most successful though, Pequeno Nogueira was pound-for-pound one of the very best in the sport, maybe the most dominant champion of his day. Guillotined Noboru Asahi, Rumina Sato and a number of other highly skilled top grapplers. In pure grappling, you have Leonardo Nogueira and Nicholas Renier that are top-flight competitors amongst many others.

Nicolas Reiner was very good though never achieved a silver medal as cacareo did, I don’t think leo Nogueira did it either

 

[uchubaco]

His record was awesome before he went blind in one eye, I just wish he'd retired after that or something because his record gives the wrong impression about what kind of fighter he was. Although, in a way, I suppose, his record is a testament to his warrior spirit. That guy really loves luta livre--he was championing luta livre in interviews during a time when so many people that had a foundation in luta livre were instead either claiming BJJ or at the very least not giving mention to luta livre.

He kept on fighting because he was one of the owners of Academia Budokan alongside Joao Ricardo...so in a way, he had to keep on fighting because he was the head of the Gym. Unfortunately he kept on fighting, being blind in one eye and having impaired sight in the other, against guys who were much heavier than him, such as Mark Weir, without training because of being at the hospital, against Nino Schembri and after the accident in PRIDE they offered him three "easy" fights to him in exchange of him not suing them, the first fight?? Against Carlos Newton, the second fight in which he arguably won or at least had a draw was with Daiju Takase, but he lost and then against Schembri he fought after leaving the hospital because of the accident in which he lost his sight...all this information came from his mouth, he was interviewed last year for a Brazilian Podcast and explained a lot of what happened during those times. He was a true warrior in the definition of the word...unfortunately he was really unlucky with some of the things that happened in his life.

 

[Glaws]

Hi joined the forum to comment on this. I recently started training Luta Livre under Ali Maclean in Kaobon, Liverpool. Specifically wanted to learn LL as thought it would better in conjunction with my catch wrestling that I started up in Wigan about 6 months ago. Also love the history side of both arts. Really interesting posts uchubaco, never realised there was schism within LL.

 

[Evan_The_Kid_1]

This thread needs to be stickied

 

[uchubaco]

Hi joined the forum to comment on this. I recently started training Luta Livre under Ali Maclean in Kaobon, Liverpool. Specifically wanted to learn LL as thought it would better in conjunction with my catch wrestling that I started up in Wigan about 6 months ago. Also love the history side of both arts. Really interesting posts uchubaco, never realised there was schism within LL.

There is a lot of beef between Luta Livre practitioners...right now, the main issue is that a LOT of branches are trying to either "delete" or ignore the legacy and the role that Hilbernon de Oliveira (Johil de Oliveiras father) had in the history of Luta Livre.

 

[Glaws]

There is a lot of beef between Luta Livre practitioners...right now, the main issue is that a LOT of branches are trying to either "delete" or ignore the legacy and the role that Hilbernon de Oliveira (Johil de Oliveiras father) had in the history of Luta Livre.

Thanks for the reply uchubaco. What is the issue with Hilbernon de Oliveira? Is he the father of Jefferson Oliveira Pereira, who trained Milton Vieira?

 

[uchubaco]

Thanks for the reply uchubaco. What is the issue with Hilbernon de Oliveira? Is he the father of Jefferson Oliveira Pereira, who trained Milton Vieira?

Hilbernon is Johil de Oliveira father, a Luta Livre OG.

The main issue is that a while ago someone made what many considered to be the most comprehensive list of Luta Livre lineages…like a month or two ago, it was brought up again and one of the main contention points of it was who were the ones that were considered to be Black Belts under who…but the main one was that Hilbernon de Oliveira was absent of that list. What was the issue with that??

Well, Hilbnernon de Oliveira was the one who TAUGHT Luta Livre to Joao Ricardo (who is considered one of the top Luta Livre Grao Mestres)…when Joao Ricardo went into Vale Tudo he was a Karate fighter, he lost his first fight and then, he needed to learn ground fighting and since he was friends with Hilbernon, plus the fact that Hilbernon was a Vale Tudo fighter, he trained and learned from him.

Fun fact, Hilbernon de Oliveira and Joao Ricardo had an Academy since the early Vale Tudo days in which they taught Luta Livre and Karate, the name of the Academy was "Academia Jo-Hil"…when Hilbernon had his son, he named him Johil in honour of that Academy.

Hilbernon de Oliveira is not a well known figure because he died during an armed robbery in the early 90s, but he is one of the Grandfathers of Luta Livre and a figure who must not be forgotten.