Opinion The Israeli lobby has undue influence due to corruption: Change my mind

[Ruprecht]

@Ruprecht are you a preterist?

Not really. I used to be a premillennialist, these days I'm agnostic on the nature of end times prophecy. However I'm a firm believer in the negative impact of an apocalyptic world view and/or preemptively engaging prophecy.

 

[lifelessheap]

With corporate and media power rising, we really needed our government to be on our side. They are not. They work for lobbys and the big money that allows them to keep their jobs. Trump wa s whiff or somebody who might do his own thing, and has been attacked for it.

Yes, Jewish lobby has to much influence.

We agree.

 

[abiG]

Not really. I used to be a premillennialist, these days I'm agnostic on the nature of prophecy. However I'm a firm believer in the negative impact of an apocalyptic world view and/or preemptively engaging prophecy.

You've peaked my interest, not sure any of this has a damn thing to do with the lobby, but let me ask you this.

Are you saying, from the time of the NT until around the 1600s, the idea the Jews had to return to Jerusalem was not discussed in Christianity? And if that is so, what changed?

 

[Ruprecht]

You've peaked my interest, not sure any of this has a damn thing to do with the lobby, but let me ask you this.

Are you saying, from the time of the NT until around the 1600s, the idea the Jews had to return to Jerusalem was not discussed in Christianity? And if that is so, what changed?

It was discussed but stamped out as heresy until after the reformation. NT references to "Israel" were interpreted by the Roman Catholic church as a metaphor for the Church, and they have an amillennialist eschatology.
Following the interpretation of the bible into common tongue and mass distribution, along with the reformation, there was a return to a more literal interpretation no longer constrained to Roman Catholic orthodoxy.
There was also a renewed interest in historical Israel and Judaism (the Roman Catholic church didn't exactly have the best relationship with Judaism).
Doctines of premillennialism, dispensationalism, dual covenant theology etc emerged and were popularised.

In terms of the Israel lobby, the way it relates is to the idea that Political Zionism spawned Christian Zionism, which essentially is the reverse of what's happened.
Although of course Israel now continues to exploit that relationship through religious tourism, national religious broadcasting, politically etc. Despite the basic eschatalogcal differences.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Picture this happening for any other world leader. Start with Putin:

List of those that ran against Putin that were murdered...picture this happening for any other world leader other than Killary and Putin.

Next time dont mention a world leader that is a murderer for your example of being an exemplar leader.

 

[Seaside]

I am arguing that until the early 2000's you were as likely to find a 1488'er in the Evangelical ranks, as you were to find a Israel must hold Jerusalem for the anti-christ to return kool-aid drinker.

I mean the passions is basically a non-biblical story of a Jew being responsible for the torture of Christ. Historically this narrative has always accompanied anti-semitism before WWII.

Still doesnt change a fact that there is a biblical basis to evangelicalism and jew worship. It makes sense. Christianity picks and chooses a lot. But those evangelicals arent wrong based on their books.

Jewish population in Africa:

Jewish population by country (high numbers in the U.S. and Canada):

Palestinian population by country:

Palestinians are sunni arabs you fool. They invented the name following their loss in the 6 day war. Prior to hat they eere just arabs.There numbers are way larger. In the 400 millioms or high 300 millions. And Jews are overwhelmingly moving from South africa. The kther countries arent real jews largely and are christian type jews id bet you a lot they are. It isnt uncommon for many christian messianic jew types to exist in uganda.

Jewish global population is at best double the core population. So maybe 30 to 32 million with enlarged view and loose lines.

 

[Seaside]

List of those that ran against Putin that were murdered...picture this happening for any other world leader other than Killary and Putin.

Next time dont mention a world leader that is a murderer for your example of being an exemplar leader.

Those arent people who had any chance to dethrone him even if elections were up to western standards of "free". That is a list of journalists or oligarch types or rare non politician but political commentor.

 

[Seaside]

Neither really matters. What was God's covenant with the Israelites according to the Hebrew Bible?

"God promised to make Abraham the father of a great people and said that Abraham and his descendants must obey God. In return God would guide them and protect them and give them the land of Israel."

The covenant between God and the Jewish people is a thread running throughout the early parts of the Bible, and one of the vital pillars of Judaism. The covenant between God and Jews is the basis for the idea of the Jews as the chosen people. The first covenant was between God and Abraham.

Well, the Jews broke that covenant when they handed God's son, Jesus, to be crucified by the Romans. So, with that act, the promise of the land of Israel is gone. Jesus was not what the Jews wanted or expected. Did the Jews think the covenant was still intact? Was it naivety or stupidity? Either way, no, the promise of Israel is gone forever and worst is to follow...

It takes an idiot to believe the christian account..... not logical or scientific

 

[abiG]

It was discussed but stamped out as heresy until after the reformation. NT references to "Israel" were interpreted by the Roman Catholic church as a metaphor for the Church, and they have an amillennialist eschatology.
Following the interpretation of the bible into common tongue and mass distribution, along with the reformation, there was a return to a more literal interpretation no longer constrained to Roman Catholic orthodoxy.
There was also a renewed interest in historical Israel and Judaism (the Roman Catholic church didn't exactly have the best relationship with Judaism).
Doctines of premillennialism, dispensationalism, dual covenant theology etc emerged and were popularised.

In terms of the Israel lobby, the way it relates is to the idea that Political Zionism spawned Christian Zionism, which essentially is the reverse of what's happened.
Although of course Israel now continues to exploit that relationship through religious tourism, national religious broadcasting, politically etc. Despite the basic eschatalogcal differences.

Well, what can I say? Judaism should never again be conflated with zionism. A point we all must recognize and something I have been trying to point out here since day one.

List of those that ran against Putin that were murdered...picture this happening for any other world leader other than Killary and Putin.

Next time dont mention a world leader that is a murderer for your example of being an exemplar leader.

Dude, I'm not saying he' a great leader. You can't even follow discussions or know what you are watching on youtube.

That video was Netenyahu getting like 30 standing ovations from our leaders in Washington for his ongoing ethnic cleansing of a defenseless people. Netenyahu is a known war criminal, LITERALLY!

That aside, picture that happening for any other world leader.

When I said "Start with Putin." It was to illustrate the point of how ridiculous the entire scene was.

 

[Phr3121]

They invented the name following their loss in the 6 day war.

They came from the country listed below:

"The region was among the earliest in the world to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization. During the Early and Middle Bronze Age (2055 to 1650 BC).

 

[Seaside]

They came from the country listed below:

"The region was among the earliest in the world to see human habitation, agricultural communities and civilization. During the Early and Middle Bronze Age (2055 to 1650 BC).

Your pointless. You have some agenda against jewry. Hence you take this blind side and pretend you like jews. I and others have teied explaining this to you but you ignore.

 

[Phr3121]

You have some agenda against jewry.

I do? I was not aware of that. I like to point out injustice when I see it. No matter who the culprit is.

I'm Catholic. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were Jews.

 

[Seaside]

I do? I was not aware of that. I like to point out injustice when I see it. No matter who the culprit is.

I'm Catholic. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were Jews.

You say this in every thread. Its obvious irs a game and you dont mean it

 

[abiG]

They invented the name following their loss in the 6 day war.

Moron,
Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

 

[Madmick]

I learned changing your mind is impossible no matter how overwhelming the evidence with the Assad Sarin gas attacks.

Waste of time. No thanks.

 

[Gervais]

Dude, Netanyahu literally flew his fat corrupt ass down here and attempted to derail American Politics ahead of a presidential election by bypassing the president and SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS like he was an elected official, and nobody in power called foul to that.

yeah it was amazing and so bold. Like it reached a level where they said we are not even gonna hide it and work behind the scenes anymore. we run this shit now.

 

[Seaside]

Moron,
Do you deny that in 450 BC, Herodotus referred to the area between Egypt and Phoenicia as Palestine?

Do you further deny that around 340 BC, Aristotle referred to the Dead Sea as "a lake in Palestine?"

God willing palestine will be destroyed and all of Israels enemies vanquished . They called themselves Sunni arabs before 1967. Palestine was adoptted by romans. You keep trying to deny or obscure this fact. Sunni arabs are supremacists and have tons of land around them and a population well over 350 million and 22 something countries. Also BS that muhammad flew to nearest mosque and that mosque was somejow in jerusalem on the ruins of a jewish temple.

Jews were there first. Not muslim evil

Also your a palestinian diaspora its so obvious or a muzzie

 

[VivaRevolution]

I learned changing your mind is impossible no matter how overwhelming the evidence with the Assad Sarin gas attacks.

Waste of time. No thanks.

I learned the same.

Exclusive: Iraqi scientist says he helped ISIS make chemical weapons

IRBIL, Iraq —In the weeks after his city fell to the Islamic State, Iraqi scientist Suleiman al-Afari sat in his deserted government office and waited for the day when the terrorists would show up.

The black-clad militants who had seized Mosul in 2014 were making their way through each of its bureaucracies, rounding up workers and managers who had not yet fled the city and pressing them into service. When his turn came, Afari, then a 49-year-old geologist with Iraq’s Ministry of Industry and Minerals, hoped his new bosses would simply let him keep his job. To his surprise, they offered him a new one:

Help us make chemical weapons, the Islamic State’s emissaries said.

Afari knew little about the subject, but he accepted the assignment. And so began his 15-month stint supervising the manufacture of lethal toxins for the world’s deadliest terrorist group

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...7cb8f0-0d35-11e9-831f-3aa2c2be4cbd_story.html

 

[phoenixikki]

It's not undue if Israel is always right.

 

[Madmick]

I learned the same.

Exclusive: Iraqi scientist says he helped ISIS make chemical weapons

IRBIL, Iraq —In the weeks after his city fell to the Islamic State, Iraqi scientist Suleiman al-Afari sat in his deserted government office and waited for the day when the terrorists would show up.

The black-clad militants who had seized Mosul in 2014 were making their way through each of its bureaucracies, rounding up workers and managers who had not yet fled the city and pressing them into service. When his turn came, Afari, then a 49-year-old geologist with Iraq’s Ministry of Industry and Minerals, hoped his new bosses would simply let him keep his job. To his surprise, they offered him a new one:

Help us make chemical weapons, the Islamic State’s emissaries said.

Afari knew little about the subject, but he accepted the assignment. And so began his 15-month stint supervising the manufacture of lethal toxins for the world’s deadliest terrorist group

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...7cb8f0-0d35-11e9-831f-3aa2c2be4cbd_story.html

So a guy who had never made military-grade Sarin, and had no modern equipment, figured out how to do it in an empty building by himself, and also managed to deliver this payload from Assad's controlled military bases with Assad's equipment against Assad's enemies. Even more impressively, he managed to build a time machine, and transport himself into the past so that he could provide these weapons to ISIS in 2013 in order to carry out the Ghouta attack.

Try Googling again. This is why I won't waste my time on you. You're too simple to divine the truth in complicated matters.