Opinion The Israeli lobby has undue influence due to corruption: Change my mind

[VivaRevolution]

My evidence for this argument.



So, just how powerful is the Israel lobby in the US?

Out of America: Perhaps no more than a dozen out of more than 400 Representatives are pro-Palestinian

Intimidated? Obama at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee ( AFP/Getty Images )
As public grovels go, this one was pretty spectacular. Former Senator Chuck Hagel, who may or may not become the next US Secretary of Defense, was back in his old haunts on Capitol Hill for his confirmation hearings, trying to explain a remark he made a few years back, that "the Jewish lobby intimidated Congress" and did some "dumb things".

Name a "dumb thing", he was asked by Lindsey Graham, his Republican colleague for six years until 2009 – though you wouldn't have guessed it from the venom of the exchanges on Thursday. Hagel couldn't. Graham persisted. "Name one person who's intimidated by the Israel lobby in the United States Senate." A taut silence, then Hagel limply responded, "I don't know."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/so-just-how-powerful-is-the-israel-lobby-in-the-us-8478432.html?amp

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About 1.4% of the American population is Jewish, and yet every modern day president has bent it's knee to AIPAC.

Not to the AARP, or NRA, or even to the Chamber of Commerce, but to AIPAC.

The only logical way to explain this extraordinary influence in politics is through corruption.

Change my mind......

 

[PlayswellwithLawnDarts]

Have you been talking to Chomsky?

 

[meauneau]

I agree with OP. Jews rule the world.

 

[JDragon]

Well, what would it take for you to change your mind? What kind of evidence would you accept?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Well, what would it take for you to change your mind? What kind of evidence would you accept?

Let's start with a basic argument for why presidents and party members of both sides have bent their knee to AIPAC more then any other organization, when Jewish people make up 1.4% of US population?

 

[JDragon]

Let's start with a basic argument for why presidents and party members of both sides have bent their knee to AIPAC more then any other organization, when Jewish people make up 1.4% of US population?

For starters, there's that whole evangelical argument. As in, the Jews just happen to live on the land that will be the scenery for the final battle.

 

[VivaRevolution]

For starters, there's that whole evangelical argument. As in, the Jews just happen to live on the land that will be the scenery for the final battle.

People were bending the knee to AIPAC long before the conspiracy, and I do mean conspiracy to infaltrate Evangelical churches, selling snake oil.

 

[JDragon]

People were bending the knee to AIPAC long before the conspiracy, and I do mean conspiracy to infaltrate Evangelical churches, selling snake oil.

That works kind of against your argument, now doesn't it?

I will give you that unconditional support of Israel seems to be a development of the past 50 years.

 

[JDragon]

It's been a while since I read the Mearsheimer/Walt book on the Israel lobby. It was disgusting what happened to them imo (getting branded as antisemites*). These were basically the most respected and frequently quoted political scientists in the domain of Neorealist theory. Their conclusion was that the Israel lobby is not doing anything other lobbies are not doing or trying, they are just way more effective at what they do. Their conclusion was though that the Israel lobby is so effective that the outcome is a foreign policy that is not in line with what any reasonable person would consider as being in the national interest.

In a way, it just shows the flaws of Neorealist theory (maybe I should do a thread on international relations theory once) as the United States behaves in a way their pet theory would not predict.

* The irony was massive btw. Mearsheimer/Walt criticized the Israel lobby for using the 'antisemite!!' weapon against reasonable criticism of Israel and U.S. support of Israel. As a result, they got called antisemites.

 

[Amerikuracana]

With corporate and media power rising, we really needed our government to be on our side. They are not. They work for lobbys and the big money that allows them to keep their jobs. Trump wa s whiff or somebody who might do his own thing, and has been attacked for it.

Yes, Jewish lobby has to much influence.

 

[VivaRevolution]

That works kind of against your argument, now doesn't it?

I will give you that unconditional support of Israel seems to be a development of the past 50 years.

I am arguing that until the early 2000's you were as likely to find a 1488'er in the Evangelical ranks, as you were to find a Israel must hold Jerusalem for the anti-christ to return kool-aid drinker.

I mean the passions is basically a non-biblical story of a Jew being responsible for the torture of Christ. Historically this narrative has always accompanied anti-semitism before WWII.

 

[hisandherpes]

the real foreign influence in our country is aipac not russia

 

[Roaming East]

Dude, Netanyahu literally flew his fat corrupt ass down here and attempted to derail American Politics ahead of a presidential election by bypassing the president and SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS like he was an elected official, and nobody in power called foul to that.

 

[Phr3121]

The Israeli lobby has undo influence due to corruption. Change my mind.

Nothing to change, you are absolutely right...

Well, lets see. Where does antisemitism come from: Historically, there is Jesus, the Holocaust (default excuse for everything they kill or the existence of Israel), control of the banking system (Germany prior to WWII) and diamond industry, stolen technology for their nuclear program, etc., etc.

Also, in 1967 they killed 34 Americans and wounded 171.

 

[m25105]

Dude, Netanyahu literally flew his fat corrupt ass down here and attempted to derail American Politics ahead of a presidential election by bypassing the president and SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS like he was an elected official, and nobody in power called foul to that.

He also got more standing ovations than Bush Jr. did after the September 11th attack.

 

[cincymma79]

I bet if we had an Israel thread every six minutes you’d have no info to share and would be open to your mind being changed instead of jsut blaming the Jews for the whole planet

 

[thehighking]

Dude, Netanyahu literally flew his fat corrupt ass down here and attempted to derail American Politics ahead of a presidential election by bypassing the president and SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO CONGRESS like he was an elected official, and nobody in power called foul to that.

Slaves shouldn't speak ill of their owners

 

[Phr3121]

I bet if we had an Israel thread every six minutes you’d have no info to share and would be open to your mind being changed instead of jsut blaming the Jews for the whole planet.

Jewish?
Well, I'm Catholic. Christians love the Jews. How could they not. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were Jews. The Old Testament is part of the Hebrew bible. But yes, the Jewish influence in the U.S. Congress is huge. Why is that? Who speaks for the Palestinian cause?

"The question to be asked is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behavior towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza... are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism? You cannot continue to victimize someone else just because you yourself were a victim once, there has to be a limit." Author: Edward Said

@abiG

 

[cincymma79]

Jewish?
Well, I'm Catholic. Christians love the Jews. How could they not. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were Jews. The Old Testament is part of the Hebrew bible. But yes, the Jewish influence in the U.S. Congress is huge. Why is that? Who speaks for the Palestinian cause?

"The question to be asked is how long can the history of anti-semitism and the Holocaust be used as a fence to exempt Israel from arguments and sanctions against it for its behavior towards the Palestinians, arguments and sanctions that were used against other repressive governments, such as South Africa? How long are we going to deny that the cries of the people of Gaza... are directly connected to the policies of the Israeli government and not to the cries of the victims of Nazism? You cannot continue to victimize someone else just because you yourself were a victim once, there has to be a limit." Author: Edward Said

@abiG

Just because they were exterminated and driven out of every other country dealing mean we can’t take this one now too

 

[MadSquabbles500]

It's been a while since I read the Mearsheimer/Walt book on the Israel lobby. It was disgusting what happened to them imo (getting branded as antisemites*). These were basically the most respected and frequently quoted political scientists in the domain of Neorealist theory. Their conclusion was that the Israel lobby is not doing anything other lobbies are not doing or trying, they are just way more effective at what they do. Their conclusion was though that the Israel lobby is so effective that the outcome is a foreign policy that is not in line with what any reasonable person would consider as being in the national interest.

In a way, it just shows the flaws of Neorealist theory (maybe I should do a thread on international relations theory once) as the United States behaves in a way their pet theory would not predict.

* The irony was massive btw. Mearsheimer/Walt criticized the Israel lobby for using the 'antisemite!!' weapon against reasonable criticism of Israel and U.S. support of Israel. As a result, they got called antisemites.

How does one "lobby" more effectively? Do the just literally scream anti-semitism, and call everyone nazis?