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Social The free Market determined Ben Askren didn't deserve a lung transplant

Cuauhtemoc said:
Yeah, I don't even know why I replied to him. It's pretty obvious.
Universal healthcare does not make it illegal to pay for your private doctors nor does it make health insurance illegal.
It's like thinking that food stamps make it illegal to buy food with money.
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Does it feel good to think you schooled me on something? If so, I will leave it be, and you can stop reading here.

You didn't understand my post obviously because as I said, it is complicated. You can buy more in a lot of places, but that doesn't solve the whole problem. You also pay higher taxes in most places with socialized medicine- those programs aren't free, and people who need them aren't the ones who are paying for them, otherwise they wouldn't need them. In effect, I would be paying twice if I did that- and in most of these countries paying for a lot of other social programs I don't use myself. No thanks, I'll stick to low taxes and pay for my healthcare just once.
 
tastaylvr said:
American life expectancy is 5 years worse than the UK but socialism health bad lol
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I'd argue thats because we are far fatter and unhealthy due to lifestyle choices in the US - not because of the actual health care lol
 
USA!USA! said:
I'd argue thats because we are far fatter and unhealthy due to lifestyle choices in the US - not because of the actual health care lol
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This. America is remarkably well at treating cancer and gun shot wounds.
 
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joy2day said:
You made my point for me- both systems cause death.

Yes there are political problems in the UK system, but that is true under EVERY system in the world, and there is no healthcare system that is operating great anywhere- it's a complicated thing no matter how you slice it.

There are problems with both. The doctor shortage worldwide DOES severely hurt those places where medicine is socialized because you don't give anyone an incentive to be a doctor if they have to go through all of that shit to get licensed then they still don't get paid well.

The best system has not yet been implemented because none of them work very well. My point is you aren't going to demonize one system over another because of a single case like Askren. It isn't that simple.
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Askren’s case has nothing to do with free healthcare. He has health insurance. It’s a prime example of just how fucked our healthcare system is- they are somehow getting away with not meeting their obligation. Free healthcare is actually not relevant to his case.

Which speaks to just how shit our healthcare system is right now. We have health insurance companies pulling all kinds of fuckery. Pharmaceuticals doing the same. Pattens being abused becoming the norm. The sad truth is we aren’t really ready to start talking about free healthcare. What we need to be doing is locking a lot of bad actors up and reforming our training pipelines for providers. Then let’s talk about universal healthcare. I’ll bet you find it becomes a lot more affordable if the government would step in and untuck this nonsense. But they won’t and it will keep getting worse in our lifetime
 
joy2day said:
I love the way people read from a script with their views. Unfortunately, I'm not a right winger, I'm a person who calls it as they see it; I don't read from the script of any ideology like you do.

The systems both have their problems, and which is better is a matter of opinion. Your arguments can all be refuted also, but I'm not going to get into script reading. You didn't refute any of MY arguments BTW- you just shifted the subject.

For me, I came from a poor family, worked my ass off going to school while working shit jobs at the same time, got better jobs after graduating, then had to work my ass off to pay back 100K in student loans. After all of that, I make good money and have good healthcare which I can pay for. Do I want to be someplace where I do all of that and still get shitty healthcare after all of that work, which would happen anywhere there is socialized medicine? No. Not my preference. I like this system much better where you get rewarded for working hard for success, and taxes are low so you can get your own good healthcare.

As far as what is best for everyone, that is a different question, but it is a complex one. The idea that socialized medicine is "better" is only an opinion. They have a lot of problems in that system too. There isn't a single place that doesn't have a lot of problems in either system, except a few very small and rich countries that don't face the same realities.
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I didn't accuse you of being a right wingers, learn to read, and your outlook on it is selfish, as long as you are fine and have access to good healthcare and can afford it then that's great...until you can't.
 
Mr Holmes said:
That would make him more like a libertarian
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This is true because while Libertarians think no one deserves public money as policy, they are all too happy to beg got everyone else's money themselves or encourage poorer people to
 
joy2day said:
Does it feel good to think you schooled me on something? If so, I will leave it be, and you can stop reading here.

You didn't understand my post obviously because as I said, it is complicated. You can buy more in a lot of places, but that doesn't solve the whole problem. You also pay higher taxes in most places with socialized medicine- those programs aren't free, and people who need them aren't the ones who are paying for them, otherwise they wouldn't need them. In effect, I would be paying twice if I did that- and in most of these countries paying for a lot of other social programs I don't use myself. No thanks, I'll stick to low taxes and pay for my healthcare just once.
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Lol@you thinking you dont still end up paying for the health care of those who dont have it

You pay more than people in Countries with socialized medicine if you're in the US. We pay a lot more per capita.
 
Seano said:
No one thinks that. We just know "free" simply means paid for by tax dollars. Those of us in the US who pay taxes most likely have health care. Those who don't get it on the taxpayer's dime.
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It's not a matter of free vs. expensive.

The insurance system is flawed. With insurance, the costs are significantly higher than in many countries without insurance. The waiting times to access insurance covered care is unmanageable. To see my PCP the earliest time available was 4 months from now, and I needed to do so to get a referral for a test which turned out to be urgent. I had to pay out of pocket to see a private doctor to get the referral. It cost me hundreds of dollars.

It turns out I need further testing. I can get a CT Angiogram in Tijuana for about $400 without a referral immediately. Here, with insurance, a referral is required, and the cost exceeds $1,500, going to $3k depending on where I get it. And I cannot get the referral without seeing first my PCP, 4 months from now, to then get a referral to see a cardiologist, who would then get me a referral to get a test. All of this costing a fortune. I could be dead by then.

Many insurance providers will not cover medication because of the step therapy system. I literally got charged 300 dollars last week at the ER to get an x-ray and a laxative prescription, after a 12 hour wait.

I have worked in different countries, including developing countries like Peru. The American health care system is an atrocity.
 
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