The Boat Dilemma (The Dark Knight)

[Horse Style]

We've all seen The Dark Knight. We've all seen the boat dilemma created by The Joker. I don't think I need to explain it. It's been 8 years. Anyway, do you think the way it played out is realistic? Do you think neither boat would choose to blow the other boat even when they know that if they don't, both boats will blow up at midnight?

What are your opinions on the matter?

I think, in real life, one of those boats would have blown up within the first 10 minutes. The question I'm not sure I have the answer to is "which boat would turn the key first?"

 

[method115]

We've all seen The Dark Knight. We've all seen the boat dilemma created by The Joker. I don't think I need to explain it. It's been 8 years. Anyway, do you think the way it played out is realistic? Do you think neither boat would choose to blow the other boat even when they know that if they don't, both boats will blow up at midnight?

What are your opinions on the matter?

I think, in real life, one of those boats would have blown up within the first 10 minutes. The question I'm not sure I have the answer to is "which boat would turn the key first?"

It depends on who got the key. I could see a situation where a person from each boat just throws it overboard. That would be rare though and I think most likely one of them blows up.

 

[GODZILLA213]

Easily one of the dumbest things about that movie. I would have raced to turn the key before the other boat turned theirs.

 

[method115]

Easily one of the dumbest things about that movie. I would have raced to turn the key before the other boat turned theirs.

Really? I'm not sure I could do it. Having to live with blowing up all those people? I think Id' be satisfied with a quick death and getting to know what the hell happens after you die. Either that or I'd risk running and jumping into the water. Killing a boatload of people isn't something I could do though.

 

[AGGAMEMNON66]

I liked the way the film handled it. Was one of the things I liked about Jokers character in the film -he presented a handful of moral dilemas to some of his targets that forced them to make some difficult calls they'd be effected by potentially forever. Even after he was gone. A way of putting scars on the people, even if they weren't physical.

As to the question, I do think one of them would go -and it would be the prison boat because no one on a boat filled with woman and children is going to think it fair that they die in favor of criminals.

I do see the criminals hesitating -at least some of them- especially lifers who may actually prefer death.

 

[Mike]

It was an interesting moral dilemma that only worked out for batman because the good guy had to win.


In real life I'm quite certain each boat would have people on it that would sacrifice people on the other boat with no fucks given.



It's been proven over and over through various experiments that faceless people don't have the same value to us mentally.


That's what allows us to bomb the shit out of enemy combatants and even civilians during wartime without losing our minds. Out of sight out of mind.

 

[Gabe]

Easily one of the dumbest things about that movie. I would have raced to turn the key before the other boat turned theirs.

You say that until faced with that dilemma, I doubt you'd be willing to get your hands that dirty.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

Pandemonium would have ensued on both boats, a fight for the triggers would've taken place on both, and the inmates would've turned that key first. There are truly sick fucks in prisons. The kind that would enjoy that power. I don't see them being stopped.

The hardest dilemma would be those with kids on the other boat. Parental instincts vs "the right thing to do". After a 5 min convo the most motherly woman there would be cutting people with her keys to get at that trigger.

To me the main thing the movie got wrong was everyone's calmness. Would've been like instantly giving everyone on those boats a speedball.

 

[Prime Ang]

Easily one of the dumbest things about that movie. I would have raced to turn the key before the other boat turned theirs.

Everyone says this but if their hand was on the key I think they'd think differently.

 

[berimBOWLoh]

Really? I'm not sure I could do it. Having to live with blowing up all those people? I think Id' be satisfied with a quick death and getting to know what the hell happens after you die. Either that or I'd risk running and jumping into the water. Killing a boatload of people isn't something I could do though.

if you jumped overboard you wouldnt be killing a boatload of ppl.


you would be killing two. Joker said if ppl try to get away he blows both.

 

[Mike]

Pandemonium would of ensued on both boats, a fight for the triggers would've taken place on both, and the inmates would've turned that key first. There are truly sick fucks in prisons. The kind that would enjoy that power. I don't see them being stopped.

The hardest dilemma would be those with kids on the other boat. Parental instincts vs "the right thing to do". After a 5 min convo the most motherly woman there would be cutting people with her keys to get at that trigger.

To me the main thing the movie got wrong was everyone's calmness. Would've been like instantly giving everyone on those boats a speedball.

Yep not only would people be willing to kill everyone on the other boat, many would be willing to kill people on their own boat to get to the trigger and protect their own.



That's just tribalism, if it's my people OR your people that get to live then it's going to be mine, every time. Because most people care about their own tribe more than another.


I'm not proud of it, but if my friends and family were on the boat with me I'd probably be knocking people down to get to that switch.


And I'm generally more empathetic then the norm.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

Yep not only would people be willing to kill everyone on the other boat, many would be willing to kill people on their own boat to get to the trigger and protect their own.



That's just tribalism, if it's my people OR your people that get to live then it's going to be mine, every time. Because most people care about their own tribe more than another.


I'm not proud of it, but if my friends and family were on the boat with me I'd probably be knocking people down to get to that switch.


And I'm generally more empathetic then the norm.

People forget how animalistic we are. I know a couple moms who have wildly swung at 6' men for just THINKING their child was in danger because of them. Tell them they have to pick between them or inmates and all they'll think about is why it's even a question.

But the second it's announced on the prison boat, there's no conversation at all. Immediate riot. Those content with death won't fight to ensure it. If anything their acceptance of inevitability would ensure them not doing anything. Meanwhile about 5 to 10 murderers would be after that switch before the Joker finished talking.

Both would turn the key definitely. But I don't see any conversation at all happening on the prison boat.

 

[Mike]

People forget how animalistic we are. I know a couple moms who have wildly swung at 6' men for just THINKING their child was in danger because of them. Tell them they have to pick between them or inmates and all they'll think about is why it's even a question.

But the second it's announced on the prison boat, there's no conversation at all. Immediate riot. Those content with death won't fight to ensure it. If anything their acceptance of inevitability would ensure them not doing anything. Meanwhile about 5 to 10 murderers would be after that switch before the Joker finished talking.

Both would turn the key definitely. But I don't see any conversation at all happening on the prison boat.

Yeah they wanted to turn it into a preachy moral moment, oh look the criminals opted to wait it out and not blow up the other boat.


Cool you're full of shit movie. In real life career criminals don't usually secretly have a heart of gold.


If it was my friends and family vs hardened criminals who are most likely scum, I'd be filling a boat with uppercuts getting to that trigger.


I'm not sacrificing my family for a bunch of rapists, murderers, violent criminals etc. Fuck that. It would be a mad scramble on both boats to get to the trigger first.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I believe Americans would have turned the key just to watch the other guys drown.

Its just a matter of how fast the key can be turned.

Most of the rest of the world would have thrown the keys overboard.

 

[Mike]

Also you're right that joker wouldn't even get to finish before a quick thinker on the prisoner boat realized what was going on and made a beeline for the trigger.


I'm pretty sure a bunch of hardened criminals have more well honed survive instincts and a faster reaction to danger then a bunch of average joes.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

Yeah they wanted to turn it into a preachy moral moment, oh look the criminals opted to wait it out and not blow up the other boat.


Cool you're full of shit movie. In real life career criminals don't usually secretly have a heart of gold.


If it was my friends and family vs hardened criminals who are most likely scum, I'd be filling a boat with uppercuts getting to that trigger.


I'm not sacrificing my family for a bunch of rapists, murderers, violent criminals etc. Fuck that. It would be a mad scramble on both boats to get to the trigger first.

Personally, I would have jumped immediately and yelled "good luck guys" as I dove into the water and swam like a madman. If there's one thing movies have taught me, it's that explosions can't hurt you if you're in water.

 

[J. Bernie Cunningham]

I believe Americans would have turned the key just to watch the other guys drown.

Its just a matter of how fast the key can be turned.

Most of the rest of the world would have thrown the keys overboard.

I'd blow you up right now if I could. Don't be mad at America because we came up with Batman.

 

[Mike]

I believe Americans would have turned the key just to watch the other guys drown.

Its just a matter of how fast the key can be turned.

Most of the rest of the world would have thrown the keys overboard.

Don't full yourself into thinking Americans are worse because they wield the most power. The same instinctive drive to conquer is present in all humans everywhere.


There isn't a culture on earth that doesn't have war, murder, genocide, and slavery in their past. And if they did it would be because they were too weak so they were always the ones being enslaved.


Those aren't american attributes, but rather attributes common to all of humanity and on a larger scale all life in general.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Don't full yourself into thinking Americans are worse because they wield the most power. The same instinctive drive to conquer is present in all humans everywhere.


There isn't a culture on earth that doesn't have war, murder, genocide, and slavery in their past. And if they did it would be because they were too weak so they were always the ones being enslaved.


Those aren't american attributes, but rather attributes common to all of humanity and on a larger scale all life in general.

American culture is based on exploitation, greed, violence and ignorance, and they know better, but do it anyway. Americans love to tell themselves everyone else is the same.

I've got news for you, we aren't. Not at that level. I'm not talking about the past either. I'm talking about right now, here today.

 

[Mike]

American culture is based on exploitation, greed, violence and ignorance, and they know better, but do it anyway. Americans love to tell themselves everyone else is the same.

I've got news for you, we aren't. Not at that level. I'm not talking about the past either. I'm talking about right now, here today.

I'm not a big fan of American foreign policy, but we're hardly the only country exploiting others, and America does a lot of good too. We're the main force stopping Russia from having more power and control, and we also had a large role in stopping the nazis in ww2.



Honestly all first world nations exploit the third world and always have, it's not a black and white world but a grey one.



Also iirc you're in Canada. You guys have the luxury of staying put of conflicts because we are right next to you and are an ally. If it wasn't for America many nations including yours would have to get their hands dirty facing the threat of China and Russia.


It's like the citizen that questions batmans methods as being too harsh, when they're not going to do shit about the Joker, and someone has to.


Edit: We are also the reason that South Korea doesn't get levelled by north korea, Russia hasn't absorbed their former territories, Israel isn't overrun by their neighbors, and smaller nations feel confident enough to buck up to China and Japan over control of the seas.


The threat of American intervention singlehandedly ALLOWS many of our allies to have their independence while they talk shit about us.