The Boat Dilemma (The Dark Knight)

[method115]

Come on, there is no way the DA would indict you given the situation. Hell, I doubt anyone on the boat would reveal you did it.

Depends. In a situation like that if they didn't find the Joker. I could see them looking for blood and finding out who pulled the trigger. Especially if you were on the boat with the prisoners and killed all the rich people.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

The boat dilemma is actually one of the first things you study in game theory. It is called Prisoner's Dilemma, for the way police use it when two people are involved in committing a crime. They split them up into different interrogation rooms and try to get them both to snitch on each other.

No, it did not play out realistically. The game's Nash equilibrium is that both sides betray each other even though they both have the most to gain if both say nothing.

 

[Horse Style]

Depends. In a situation like that if they didn't find the Joker. I could see them looking for blood and finding out who pulled the trigger. Especially if you were on the boat with the prisoners and killed all the rich people.

The Joker has been terrorizing the whole city for a while, including blowing up a hospital. Even if the person was indicted, his defense attorney would have to be a giant fuck-up not to get him off the charges.

If the person turning the key was n the prisoner boat, yea maybe the DA indicts but I doubt anyone would even consider indictment if the person was on the civilian boat.

 

[Mike]

The boat dilemma is actually one of the first things you study in game theory. It is called Prisoner's Dilemma, for the way police use it when two people are involved in committing a crime. They split them up into different interrogation rooms and try to get them both to snitch on each other.

No, it did not play out realistically. The game's Nash equilibrium is that both sides betray each other even though they both have the most to gain if both say nothing.

Yeah they wanted to get their little moral in that good always triumphs over evil, but irl one of those boats is getting blown up.


It's arguable which one, but I lean towards the civilians going boom.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Yeah they wanted to get their little moral in that good always triumphs over evil, but irl one of those boats is getting blown up.


It's arguable which one, but I lean towards the civilians going boom.

I'm not so sure. I mean, a bunch of inmates don't have a lot to live for, which makes their payoff for pressing the button a bit less than for regular citizens. But yes, one of those boats is blowing up.

 

[Mike]

I'm not so sure. I mean, a bunch of inmates don't have a lot to live for, which makes their payoff for pressing the button a bit less than for regular citizens. But yes, one of those boats is blowing up.

Never underestimate survival instinct. There's a reason most lifers don't commit suicide.

I'd argue the criminals probably have stronger survival instincts and quicker decision making in a life or death situation than the civilians.


They're also less likely to stop and consider the fate of the people on the other boat.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Never underestimate survival instinct. There's a reason most lifers don't commit suicide.

I'd argue the criminals probably have stronger survival instincts and quicker decision making in a life or death situation than the civilians.


They're also less likely to stop and consider the fate of the people on the other boat.

Really, the difference between this and the prisoner's dilemma is one side can win, sort of, depending on what is considered a win. But really it comes down to which side pushes the button first. So it isn't exactly a prisoner's dilemma. I have had only a little exposure to game theory while I was in college, so I definitely am not informed enough.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Easily one of the dumbest things about that movie. I would have raced to turn the key before the other boat turned theirs.

This. And the whole turn all cellphone into one big spy telescope. Too many plot points in this movie don't make any sense to me, which is why I think Batman Begins is a superior film to this. They are also propaganda pieces on Nolan's part bec he is a major Libertarian imo.

Randomly thinking about the scene after Batman interrogates Joker. When Joker told the cop guarding him: "how many friends of yours did kill?" He meant to do that bec he knew he needed to get him hostage to get out bec the guy with the bomb in his tummy was gonna explode. But what if they just locked him in the room and not let him out and ignored him? Plan = kaput?

 

[Jon Stark]

I liked the way the film handled it. Was one of the things I liked about Jokers character in the film -he presented a handful of moral dilemas to some of his targets that forced them to make some difficult calls they'd be effected by potentially forever. Even after he was gone. A way of putting scars on the people, even if they weren't physical.

As to the question, I do think one of them would go -and it would be the prison boat because no one on a boat filled with woman and children is going to think it fair that they die in favor of criminals.

I do see the criminals hesitating -at least some of them- especially lifers who may actually prefer death.

Great points. The boat dilemenia was nearly a moot point as Joker was going to blow up both of them. And I feel even if one blew up the other, the joker would have blown up the other for chaos and spite reasons.

 

[Lights Out 101]

I just liked the fact that fucking Deebo was the morally superior person in the situation. Heart of gold that guy.

 

[closequarters]

The boat dilemma is actually one of the first things you study in game theory. It is called Prisoner's Dilemma, for the way police use it when two people are involved in committing a crime. They split them up into different interrogation rooms and try to get them both to snitch on each other.

No, it did not play out realistically. The game's Nash equilibrium is that both sides betray each other even though they both have the most to gain if both say nothing.

My Game Theory professor in college was a huge movie buff. I also took his Economics of Movies class as an elective, lol. Joke of a class but it was just an elective anyways. At the time I took his Game Theory class, this movie was his favorite movie of all time. And we studied the Boat Scene just like you mentioned, as the Prisoners’ Dilemna. They did the right thing by not doing anything so they would have scored the highest possible in the matrix (although the highest score should still involve some type of negative consequence for the people involved). In the movie they didn’t suffer any consequences, I don’t believe.

This movie used the Prisoners’ Dilemna a couple of times. I don’t remember the movie too well but I remember my professor geeking out at the different times the Joker put people at odds in a game in the movie.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

My Game Theory professor in college was a huge movie buff. I also took his Economics of Movies class as an elective, lol. Joke of a class but it was just an elective anyways. At the time I took his Game Theory class, this movie was his favorite movie of all time. And we studied the Boat Scene just like you mentioned, as the Prisoners’ Dilemna. They did the right thing by not doing anything so they would have scored the highest possible in the matrix (although the highest score should still involve some type of negative consequence for the people involved). In the movie they didn’t suffer any consequences, I don’t believe.

This movie used the Prisoners’ Dilemna a couple of times. I don’t remember the movie too well but I remember my professor geeking out at the different times the Joker put people at odds in a game in the movie.

Holy shit, did we have the same professor? I took a class called Economics at the Movies. Is that type of class more common than I had thought?

 

[closequarters]

Holy shit, did we have the same professor? I took a class called Economics at the Movies. Is that type of class more common than I had thought?

Was the Econ at the Movies class a semester long game treated kind of like buying selling stocks where you had a certain amount of funds and you picked movies from a list you thought would do well at the box office (the movies had different prices). Goal of the game was to buy the cheapest movies you could that would earn the most at the box office?

I don’t know if the class is common at other schools or not but I was is CA State University system.

 

[Ikuza]

In real life:
If I was on the civilian boat, I would have blown up the inmates immediately.
If I was on the inmate boat as one of the guards, I would have "accidentally" lost control of the trigger to an inmate up for several life sentences.

In the movie:
I would have waited for Batman for maybe like 20 mins and then kaboom.

 

[DaleBoca]

Literally, none of this will ever happen.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Was the Econ at the Movies class a semester long game treated kind of like buying selling stocks where you had a certain amount of funds and you picked movies from a list you thought would do well at the box office (the movies had different prices). Goal of the game was to buy the cheapest movies you could that would earn the most at the box office?

I don’t know if the class is common at other schools or not but I was is CA State University system.

Yes.

 

[Darth_Inv1ctu5]

I think Id' be satisfied with a quick death and getting to know what the hell happens after you die.

Ummm no I don't think you would. Google "decomposing corpse" and look at image results. I was gonna post some as spoiler alert for your curiosity but I'm in the process of wiping vomit of my phone.

I'd turn that key before they could finish explaining the rules.

 

[FyrFytr998]

Really? I'm not sure I could do it. Having to live with blowing up all those people? I think Id' be satisfied with a quick death and getting to know what the hell happens after you die. Either that or I'd risk running and jumping into the water. Killing a boatload of people isn't something I could do though.

Prisoners vs. civilians? Pretty sure someone would turn the key on the prisoners before it got to a debate about the morality of it. I would feel bad for the boat crew/cops on the boat with the convicts.

 

[method115]

Ummm no I don't think you would. Google "decomposing corpse" and look at image results. I was gonna post some as spoiler alert for your curiosity but I'm in the process of wiping vomit of my phone.

I'd turn that key before they could finish explaining the rules.

Why would I care about a decomposing corpse when I’m dead?

 

[method115]

Prisoners vs. civilians? Pretty sure someone would turn the key on the prisoners before it got to a debate about the morality of it. I would feel bad for the boat crew/cops on the boat with the convicts.

I think there would be large groups on both sides ready to do it ASAP.