The "Best" vs The "GOAT"

[Typrune Goatley]

I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?

I disagree about Aldo.

He is the GOAT and he is the best ever because of his reign and title defenses. Sure, his reign eventually came to an end and he suffered some losses but that was after a decade of dominance. Every champ will eventually lose their belt if they keep going out and trying to defend their title. Every great fighter will eventually lose if they keep fighting. The same will happen to Holloway and Volkanovski. If they keep fighting tough contenders they will also lose. They both already have great resumes but I don't think their resumes have passed Aldo's yet.

As impressive as Max and Volk are, their peaks are not any more impressive than a young and explosive Aldo in WEC.

 

[blaseblah]

Fedor is the GOAT but pretty sure DC would beat him.

 

[Volador]

HW GOAT - Fedor
HW BOAT - Prime Stipe or DC

LHW GOAT & BOAT - Prime Jones
MW GOAT & BOAT - Prime Anderson
WW GOAT & BOAT - Prime GSP

LW GOAT - BJ
LW BOAT - Khabib

FW GOAT - Aldo
FW BOAT - Prime Aldo or Prime FW Conor

BW GOAT - Cruz
BW BOAT - Cejudo

 

[91 seconds]

I don't believe the latest fighter automatically means the best. You'd swear all fighters were created equal or something like automatons and the newest generation just gets programmed with the most recent state of the art information. That's not how human beings work. While I agree that evolution generally leads to improvement that doesn't mean that there aren't outliers that have a god given gift in reflexes, speed, power, the ability to process information making split second decisions that are once in a lifetime athletes who would excel in any era that you put them in.

 

[Bad Karate]

Jones is the Goat.

Jones is the best.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

No. Conor is the best at punching older men at bars and nothing more. Stop talking about this nobody.

Not even that. That old man shook that shit off like it was his granddaughter that threw that punch

 

[JustBleed69]

GSP is the GOAT WW but peak Hendricks is clearly better

Odd statement considering GSP beat Hendricks and his resumé is vastly superior to Hendricks'

 

[chinarice]

GSP is the GOAT WW but peak Hendricks is clearly better

Oh, that's why peak Hendricks lost to past prime GSP...... because he was "clearly better".....

GSP's prime was done going into the Condit fight.... not sure what you're talking about. Peak Hendricks was as good as past prime Georges, not better.

 

[kuroro]

Fluke win with no rematch or even a title defense. Why do people even keep bringing it up?

 

[chinarice]

You're the one that literally said that best ≠ resume lmaoooo

GSP was the best version of himself in the Hendricks fight and still got his ass beat into a fine paste

Yes, a guy coming off of ACL surgery who had problems taking down 2 guys known for having some of the worst TDD in MMA history really showed GSP was still in his prime... lol

Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

 

[Fireman Carry Larry]

There's a difference?

 

[Post 2 Decision]

So by your definition the best is just who is currently the champ...

 

[Noraaq]

I’ve always thought Greatness transcends the sport. For example, Ali is the greatest because of his champion heart inside AND outside the ring but SRR is the best boxer in the ring

 

[kezxtie]

Yes, a guy coming off of ACL surgery who had problems taking down 2 guys known for having some of the worst TDD in MMA history really showed GSP was still in his prime... lol

Whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

Pre-ACL injury GSP lost two rounds in a striking match to Jake Shields lmfaooooooo

 

[Natural Order]

I’ve always thought Greatness transcends the sport. For example, Ali is the greatest because of his champion heart inside AND outside the ring but SRR is the best boxer in the ring

This guy knows what's up.

The Ali/SRR analogy has been made for decades as GOAT/BOAT.

Ali may have even said something to the same effect about Ray being the best boxer of all-time but that he was the greatest of all-time. I'd have to look that one up, sounds familiar though.

 

[JustBleed69]

Pre-ACL injury GSP lost two rounds in a striking match to Jake Shields lmfaooooooo

He also did that with a completely fucked eye.
Shields is arguably a top 3 WW of all time with wins over Woodley, Lawler, Condit, Maia, and Dan Henderson.

 

[Local Plata]

Aldo had already ruled the division for almost a decade and been in half a dozen fucking wars lmao. You can't stay in your prime forever.

 

[spacetime]

I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?

The GOAT would be someone who cleans out divisions and step over to new ones. To me, Daniel Cormier is that guy. Conor McGregor doing it one match cannot be that guy, and he is certainly not that guy after Khabib came along

The best would be someone we simply see technically is the best. I don't think the UFC has someone like that. It's too subjective.

 

[chinarice]

Pre-ACL injury GSP lost two rounds in a striking match to Jake Shields lmfaooooooo

I forgot who won.... can you remind me? You know, the only thing that matters....

Jake Shields beat prime Tyron Woodley in a striking match LMFAOOOOOOO the guy GSP supposedly ran away from.... LMFAOOO some more, right?

 

[ferrisjso]

I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?

The main point of resume is to prove your the best. If you can prove your the best with a less decorated career I don't see what the issue is. There needs to be some balance, guys like Romero who are considered the best by some with no belts is too far in the other direction. But I'd take Weidman's 3 defenses over AS's 10 for example(MW's a mess cause the guys better than AS and Weidman were less decorated), Holloways 3 title defenses over Aldo's 7 because Weidman and Holloway beat the more decorated champs twice, Max had a 13 fight win streak one of the longest ever. If Volk beats Holloway a second time he'll have beaten all the greats in his division(except Conor who'll also have less defenses), hard to say Holloway or Aldo's GOAT(Conor then becomes the main alternative IMO).

I'll get where the people defending GSP from Marty are coming from but against better opponents Marty doesn't need 8/9 title defenses to be better IMO if he remains undefeated. Woodley didn't need 8/9 either(4 can be enough IMO, just not the 4 he had). Think Khabib and Tony's streaks put them above Penn and Bendo too but IMO LW's long reigning champions were always the least impressive.

On the other hand saying a guy you think who could beat anyone but doesn't have a belt,only has a few wins is too far in the other direction. I'm thinking Romero when I say this

My view is this is a young sport, and in a young sport, the best at any given time is likely the greatest of all time. Just like the first or second time you fuck is more likely to be the best time ever then sometime later on. Look at boxing, at the same time, they hadn't reached Dempset and Tunney. Not every HW champ but most of them were the GOAT(except Fitzsimmons,Burns). It only becomes hard to be the GOAT when the sport has been around a long time.

HW and BW are free for all's where you could make a reasonable argument for so many guys. MW is weird cause you can't make a reasonable argument for anyone IMO. But everything else I think is more or less the current champs or about to the current champs IMO(Volk and Khabib need 1 more fight IMO, Marty needs a few more).