The "Best" vs The "GOAT"

JustBleed69 said:
I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?
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How do we know that Conor was THE BEST FW if he only beat a few top ranked FWs?

Serious question.
 
I definetly agree on the first definition given here of goat vs the best.

I also take the example of Ali in boxing being the greatest heavyweight.
And I also agree that Aldo is the greatest featherweight of all time with his decade of invincibility. That's also why I consider Fedor being the goat even though I would bet on Miocic 2020 vs Fedor 2005.
 
To me the best fighter is someone who would be a favorite against anyone in the UFC. Prime Cain is what comes to mind.

The GOAT has more to do with legacy and resume. So I agree with the OP.
 
JustBleed69 said:
I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?
Click to expand...
How is conor the best fw of all time???

Aldos accomplishments solidify this as accomplishments should.

Conor had a streak and beat him in the first round never defended his belt rematched or done anything to make him the best fw of all time he vacated and moved up.

He wasn't going to hold that belt long or make that weight for long.

So is Matt serra the greatest ww of all time because he smoked gsp and took his belt...

No.. even though he lost a rematch it's still not enough as gsp accomplished more than any ww before him.

You're the best and the goat of all time if you can hold a world title belt for the longest period.
 
Babaganoosh said:
Yeah he had/has a huge size advantage there. Look at how he is doing now fighting guys that are just as big as he is.
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His reach was long for the division but he did not have a height or weight advantage. He weighed less than Aldo in the cage when they fought.
 
Andreh said:
Again:

He
is
not.

Just facts. Deal with it.
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Wrong. Saying "he. is. not. deal with it" is not an argument.

Conor is objectively one of the best talents FW has ever seen and you clearly have no experience training in any martial art.
 
letgodiego said:
if conner could cut down to 145, it wouldnt be optimal, and I think Volk hurts him
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I dont think any of the current FW top 5 can beat micky g. Max has the best chance, Volk a close 2nd.

Zombie, Ortega, and Yair all get slept in 2 rounds.
 
JustBleed69 said:
I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?
Click to expand...
Although I do like and understand the idea of this thread, I must disagree with the premise when it comes to MMA.

The reason mainly is that it's such a young sport most if not all the time the GOAT and the best can be considered the same guy. Even in your example, yes Conor got the better of Aldo but a rematch is not certain to go the same. There are also a number of tough fighters that Aldo beat that may have been able to get the best of Conor or Max.

GSP says there is always someone out there that can beat the champ, they just might be able to best the guys ranked ahead of themselves.
 
Hotora86 said:
How do we know that Conor was THE BEST FW if he only beat a few top ranked FWs?

Serious question.
Click to expand...
I don't know that he is definitely the best, but his resume would at the very least suggest that he was ONE of the best. He beat Aldo and the guy who beat Aldo twice.
The best arguements are for Conor and Volk for being the best imo.

cburm said:
How is conor the best fw of all time???

Aldos accomplishments solidify this as accomplishments should.

Conor had a streak and beat him in the first round never defended his belt rematched or done anything to make him the best fw of all time he vacated and moved up.

He wasn't going to hold that belt long or make that weight for long.

So is Matt serra the greatest ww of all time because he smoked gsp and took his belt...

No.. even though he lost a rematch it's still not enough as gsp accomplished more than any ww before him.

You're the best and the goat of all time if you can hold a world title belt for the longest period.
Click to expand...
See above comment and maybe read the OP a little more thoroughly before commenting again.
 
GoshiShun17 said:
Although I do like and understand the idea of this thread, I must disagree with the premise when it comes to MMA.

The reason mainly is that it's such a young sport most if not all the time the GOAT and the best can be considered the same guy. Even in your example, yes Conor got the better of Aldo but a rematch is not certain to go the same. There are also a number of tough fighters that Aldo beat that may have been able to get the best of Conor or Max.

GSP says there is always someone out there that can beat the champ, they just might be able to best the guys ranked ahead of themselves.
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That's a fair point, but we can't really go on the "what ifs" just based on what we know for sure and make a conclusion based on that, which still has a degree of subjectivity to it.
 
JustBleed69 said:
I don't know that he is definitely the best, but his resume would at the very least suggest that he was ONE of the best. He beat Aldo and the guy who beat Aldo twice.
The best arguements are for Conor and Volk for being the best imo.
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His resume at FW?

Yeah he beat Aldo.
Beat Max when Max was 21.
Beat a drained young Dustin.
Beat Mendes with no camp.

That's 1 FW champ, one FW contender, one to-be FW champ and one to-be LW contender. Four top fighters in total, even if you disregard who they were at the time. Four. That's a pretty short resume for "one of the best".

Compare to the BEST of other weight classes:
You have Fedor with a 10 year reign. Jones who cleaned out the entire LHW div. DJ who beat 11 contenders. Silva who beat 10. GSP who beat 9. And Conor... with FOUR?
 
Regal Boy said:
Jose is the one who didn't take the rematch, which pissed me off because I thought he'd beat Conor in the second fight if he were to control his rushing.

That punch was not a fluke btw, go step into a boxing gym for once in your life you bum.
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Charlie Zelenoff would KO Conor stiff in the boxing ring.
 
The problem I have with this concept is that the "best" fighter, that also isn't the most accomplished, means by definition you're considering this fighter the most skilled ever when he was fighting weaker competition. That's a poor way of looking at things. It's easy to look awesome when you've only fought a couple of quality opponents.
 
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KillerIsBack V2 said:
not true.. All the boxing historians till this day agree SRR is the GOAT.

Ali and Joe Louis are the top 2 HW , Depending on who you ask. They both have claim to HW goat.
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We're not on the same page about what GOAT means. GOAT includes things that may fall outside of the respective sport, legend, allure, popularity, charisma, etc. It's a bigger package than skillset or record.

SRR is the best boxer of all time BOAT (skillwise), but Muhammad Ali is the GOAT.
 
Hotora86 said:
His resume at FW?

Yeah he beat Aldo.
Beat Max when Max was 21.
Beat a drained young Dustin.
Beat Mendes with no camp.

That's 1 FW champ, one FW contender, one to-be FW champ and one to-be LW contender. Four top fighters in total, even if you disregard who they were at the time. Four. That's a pretty short resume for "one of the best".

Compare to the BEST of other weight classes:
You have Fedor with a 10 year reign. Jones who cleaned out the entire LHW div. DJ who beat 11 contenders. Silva who beat 10. GSP who beat 9. And Conor... with FOUR?
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Well if you look at anyone's career you can find a way to discount their wins, but again you seem to be arguing who is the GOAT or most accomplished. That is clearly Aldo.
Having beaten the 2 perennial GOAT contenders in Aldo and Max imo is enough to warrant the title of best.
Just the way I see it.

And sometimes the two can overlap, like some of the names you mentioned, but in this case I don't think so.
 
Natural Order said:
We're not on the same page about what GOAT means. GOAT includes things that may fall outside of the respective sport, legend, allure, popularity, charisma, etc. It's a bigger package than skillset or record.

SRR is the best boxer of all time BOAT (skillwise), but Muhammad Ali is the GOAT.
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I don't think anybody is on your page on what GOAT means.
I don't think neither Ali nor SRR are the boxer boxers of all time. SRR is just the most accomplished p4p. Of course Ali became a great persona in general not just boxer, there's people who don't know anything about boxing but heard his name.
 
JustBleed69 said:
I've always thought in some cases the GOAT and the Best could be separate.
For example:

Jose Aldo is by far the most accomplished Featherweight of All-Time, however he is clearly not the Best FW of all time as he lost to Conor, Holloway 2xs, and Volkanovski. The "Best" FW of all time is probably Conor or Volk at this point, but they havent accomplished nearly as much in the division as Aldo did.

GOAT is more a measurement of accomplishment , which means Jose is the FW GOAT.

How do you measure GOAT and what other instances of this can you think of, if any?
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely. Sometimes they are the same person, Jon Jones for ex. Sometimes not, like Aldo and (Max or Connor or Volk)
 
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