Superfight 11: Batman vs Iron Man

[MajinSaga**]

consistancy is the word I was looking for, thanks Egon. Batman's whole shtick of being unbeatable with prep time is such a cop-out and deprives the character of having any real drama.

Don't get me wrong, I love batman, or a version of batman. the gritty dark street level vigilante. I enjoy the entire bat family line of comics, but mixing batman in with gods is silly and it's not what I enjoy about batman.

This might make you happier (not the real Batman though. But a Batman from an alternate universe)

 

[Aegon Spengler]

Well said. I salute you, my Nerd-Brother!

Word

consistancy is the word I was looking for, thanks Egon. Batman's whole shtick of being unbeatable with prep time is such a cop-out and deprives the character of having any real drama.

Don't get me wrong, I love batman, or a version of batman. the gritty dark street level vigilante. I enjoy the entire bat family line of comics, but mixing batman in with gods is silly and it's not what I enjoy about batman.

I agree. The only exchange between Superman and Batman that I ever really liked was in Dark Knight Returns. Really badass.
Batman vs Daredevil is a good fight. Batman vs Iron Man in a one on one contest is stupid. They are in different weight classes.

An actual story in the hands of someone like Jeph Loeb or Mark Miller, or even maybe Frank Miller, well, that might be something special. Tony and Wayne dealing with each other one on one, having a busniess rivalry, doing some crazy shit together and then having some kind of falling out over Tony's drinking...you could have a great story there. A one on one contest is uninteresting, but seeing these characters interact could be good fun.

 

[Archie Goodwin]

Ironman. Batman's "prep time" is a ridiculous deus ex machina.
IM is just on a different level. Bats vs Cap is more interesting to me.

This.

And sorry Batman Nuthuggers, but Cap wins it - Bruce is smarter and richer, with lots of gadgets, but Cap is stronger, faster, and more experienced. Batman will fatigue before Cap does, and Cap has arguable the most powerful defensive object in the shield, it doubles as an offensive weapon, and he is highly skilled with it either way.

 

[MajinSaga**]

This.

And sorry Batman Nuthuggers, but Cap wins it - Bruce is smarter and richer, with lots of gadgets, but Cap is stronger, faster, and more experienced. Batman will fatigue before Cap does, and Cap has arguable the most powerful defensive object in the shield, it doubles as an offensive weapon, and he is highly skilled with it either way.

Caps did something batman couldn't do...

:redface:

 

[Level25Virgin]

Batman is a FW BW class superhero.
Iron Man is a WW MW.

 

[Fanu]

"He can survive in the airless vacuum of space for exactly 27 seconds."

the fuck...

 

[KnightTemplar]

Word



I agree. The only exchange between Superman and Batman that I ever really liked was in Dark Knight Returns. Really badass.
Batman vs Daredevil is a good fight. Batman vs Iron Man in a one on one contest is stupid. They are in different weight classes.

An actual story in the hands of someone like Jeph Loeb or Mark Miller, or even maybe Frank Miller, well, that might be something special. Tony and Wayne dealing with each other one on one, having a busniess rivalry, doing some crazy shit together and then having some kind of falling out over Tony's drinking...you could have a great story there. A one on one contest is uninteresting, but seeing these characters interact could be good fun.

Growing up, I wasn't interested in Batman(or Superman for that matter). Then I picked up the trade of Dark Knight Returns and was blown away. This was Batman as he always should have been: a stone-cold Bad Ass who was almost as scary as the monsters he fought.

Miller's magnum opus was a flawless vision of a very flawed hero. Batman makes mistakes("Trying to fight like a younger man")and admits he is a murderer by proxy("I'll add their names to the list of all the people I've murdered, Joker. By letting you live").

The final fight between the Dark Knight and Superman is one of the best in the history of comics.

"I want you to remember...for all your years to come...in all your most private moments...my hand at your throat.

Remember the one man who beat you."

 

[Cyke_out]

Oh, while we're on the subject of batman bashing, one of my pet peeves, is his adherence to his moral code. it's selfish really. At least Frank Miller made him admit that.

Superman has killed when it's in the best interest of the universe, he doesn't do it lightly and it tears him up, but he takes that guilt to save everyone. Batman would rather innocent people die than to ever stain his hands. What an asshole.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Oh, while we're on the subject of batman bashing, one of my pet peeves, is his adherence to his moral code. it's selfish really. At least Frank Miller made him admit that.

Superman has killed when it's in the best interest of the universe, he doesn't do it lightly and it tears him up, but he takes that guilt to save everyone. Batman would rather innocent people die than to ever stain his hands. What an asshole.

Seconded. That's why I prefer the Punisher or Judge Dredd.

One writer admitted that a major reason for Batman's vow to never take a life is that it makes it easier to have recurring villains. Whereas a much smaller percentage of Frank Castle's or Dredd's sparring partners come back out for Round 2.

The Dark Knight not killing the Joker, Two Face etc etc means the writers don't have to think up new villains. It's more about lazy writing than morality.

 

[Cyke_out]

I also think that characters that kill nonchalantly can also be painted in that look at me i'm so dark and mean I'm stuck in the 90's anti-hero mode. I do like them better than refusing to kill ever. I prefer if a character actually thinks and shows that he can react and adjust to moral situation instead of already knowing what he is going to do. Batman is going to arrest someone, and punisher is going to make their head explode. mix things up a little, add some character internal struggle once in a while.

 

[Kanster]

Batman with prep time wins. He's smarter, better tactician and by far the superior fighter.

I'd favor him to win everytime as long as he has time to prep.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I also think that characters that kill nonchalantly can also be painted in that look at me i'm so dark and mean I'm stuck in the 90's anti-hero mode. I do like them better than refusing to kill ever. I prefer if a character actually thinks and shows that he can react and adjust to moral situation instead of already knowing what he is going to do. Batman is going to arrest someone, and punisher is going to make their head explode. mix things up a little, add some character internal struggle once in a while.

I agree. The police, soliders, all people who take it upon themselves (or are entrusted by society) to battle evil, have to kill others. They use their best judgement and try to do the right thing.

One of my absoulte favorite moments in the Green Lantern Corps/Sinestro Corps war was the conversation between Jon Stewart and Hal Jordan,(I think, or perhaps Rayner) where Stewart mentions that now theat the sanction against killing has been lifted, the Green Lantern Corps had real responsibilites and a more sacred charge.

I don't think Batman should kill at will, ever, but he should kill the fucking Joker or at least manouver him into a death-penalty state.

I had an idea for a story that would involve Batman trying to manouver both The Punisher and The Joker into Texas, so Punisher would either A - Kill the Joker in Texas or B - they'd both be caught and executed.

Would make sense.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I agree. The police, soliders, all people who take it upon themselves (or are entrusted by society) to battle evil, have to kill others. They use their best judgement and try to do the right thing.

One of my absoulte favorite moments in the Green Lantern Corps/Sinestro Corps war was the conversation between Jon Stewart and Hal Jordan,(I think, or perhaps Rayner) where Stewart mentions that now theat the sanction against killing has been lifted, the Green Lantern Corps had real responsibilites and a more sacred charge.

I don't think Batman should kill at will, ever, but he should kill the fucking Joker or at least manouver him into a death-penalty state.

I had an idea for a story that would involve Batman trying to manouver both The Punisher and The Joker into Texas, so Punisher would either A - Kill the Joker in Texas or B - they'd both be caught and executed.

Would make sense.

I remember at least one story where the Joker was framed for several murders. Batman then proved the Joker was not the real killer(this time)and stopped the execution while the Joker was actually strapped into the electric chair. He tried to justify it by telling the Joker that he now owed Batman his life. But it was still lame.

And the problem with your story idea is that no Texas judge would sentence the Punisher to death. Why do you think Texans call home defence, "the Castle Doctrine"?:icon_twis

 

[chaospfa]

Batman will just bleed into Tony's wounds, poisoning him. Because no one shares Bruce's blood type of vengeance positive.

 

[chaospfa]

Who is Batman, really? Is Bruce Wayne just Batman playing dumb, or is Batman Bruce Wayne unleashing crazy? The answer: grapefruit orchestra blitz! That's right: both crazier and dumber than you guessed.

We can all agree that Bruce Wayne
isn't simply pretending to be
disturbed. We just can't tell if Batman
is the expression of his illness or the
therapy for dealing with it. Until now.

As we've established, Gotham is where plans go to die (and get stitched back together in hideous mockeries of their aspirations). That's why some people say the Joker's a perfect foil for Batman -- he's the embodiment of chaos. This view overlooks the fact that Batman is, too.

Batman wears the night as a costume and makes himself the patron saint of unknown terrors. He isn't about order; he's about control , which is much more protean. He became an avatar of the same unpredictability that ruined his life. Both hero and villain agree that life is horrifying and brutal, but the Joker wants everyone to see that there's nothing to be done for it, so you might as well laugh -- and, in fact, you might not be able to stop laughing well past the point of coughing up blood.

Crazy cannot be defeated, it can only be diverted.

Iron Man has plans for Gotham (according to the OP). But you know who else had plans? The Waynes, Ra's Al Ghul and Harvey Dent. All of those people are dead now. You know who didn't make plans? The Joker, because he was
crazy. And he survived.

It is lunacy, my friends, that settles the day in Gotham City. Sure, Tony is brilliant and powerful, but he makes one mistake: He brings logic to a crazy-fight.

 

[chaospfa]

Also Batman racks up a pretty high body count during his early years. "Yes, but he doesn't anymore," you say to your monitor, right?

Sure, except for all of the time, including when he doesn't feel like fighting. Man, monster, malevolent deity: Batman finds a justification to kill them all. Speaking of death by staring contest, here he is smiling as he assassinates God.

Did you see what just happened? The two most common ways of calling something fast are "in the blink of an eye" and "at the speed of light," and Batman outdrew both of them. That is not the gunplay of a man out of practice. The new metaphor for speed just became "half a Batman." And let's also note that he wielded a pistol against a god's eyebeams so the duel would be fair.

So don't think he won't kill Stark.

 

[BEER]

Batman, even without 24 hours of prep time would smoke Iron Man.

Iron Man is just a man in a fancy suit, and no one pulls off a fancy suit like Bruce Wayne.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

I remember at least one story where the Joker was framed for several murders. Batman then proved the Joker was not the real killer(this time)and stopped the execution while the Joker was actually strapped into the electric chair. He tried to justify it by telling the Joker that he now owed Batman his life. But it was still lame.

And the problem with your story idea is that no Texas judge would sentence the Punisher to death. Why do you think Texans call home defence, "the Castle Doctrine"?:icon_twis

hah! Actually I see that as a positive element of the story rather than a negative one. Batman's plans are foiled by some damn texas judge.

 

[KnightTemplar]

hah! Actually I see that as a positive element of the story rather than a negative one. Batman's plans are foiled by some damn texas judge.

And the story ends with Batman having his spine broken again. By Chuck Norris.:icon_chee

 

[catchwrestle1]

Excellent thread, great comments Egon and Knight. Learned some stuff and had a laugh.