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Strip him... Cormier vs gus for the title!!!!
- Thread starter jjjjjjjjjjohnny
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According to the doctors, only one thing could be the culprit, aside from severe disease
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So you actually confirming the use of PED's then..?
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Well, he could have a serious disease. I can't confirm anything (cause da ban), but the doctors said if he had one of the diseases that would cause the hormonal problems then he wouldn't be able to perform at the level he performs at.
Take it for what it's worth...
Another possibility (and I say this as a chemist) it's entirely possible to take a hormone and add an atom, move the position of the atom or change it's molecular structure slightly... (in a sense invent a hormone that didn't exist prior) that isn't being tested for and for that matter isn't even in scientific literature. Theoretical hormone wouldn't be illegal, but a kind of fucked up loophole, but from what I understand, evidence doesn't point toward this but toward a masking agent. As "RayMD" says, look for a Horse, not a Zebra.
There is also circumstantial evidence, such as the physique of certain fighters that could be looked for. For example, feminized breasts, but use your own judgement on this because such evidence isn't credible. Also, I don't know enough about steroids to comment on this type of thing, but this is what I've heard.
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My friend I'm gonna take that exact instruction so wisely given "Taking it for what it's worth" which is not much without proof or fact, just speculation and fodder for debate.
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Oh, by no means am I trying to convince you. But I certainly disagree and think it's worth quite a lot.
As another poster said, in science, we can never have "proof or fact", but we do have evidence. The evidence doesn't look good for Jones.
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That's a different debate altogether. I'd say it'll be DC vs. Gus/Rumble winner for title.
Don't know who else they'd put him against.
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Because before Jones nobody had an issue with cheating, right?:lol:
You apologists are digging deep.
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This is what I need a source on. I don't know that they can "do whatever they want" with his sample if his consent/waiver only applied to specific tests (I don't know what the consent form/waiver says or if/when one is signed). Well, obviously they "can" because they already tested for things they weren't supposed to. From a legal standpoint, I don't know whether its proper, and I'd imagine they'd be less willing to overstep at this point, since they already fucked it all up.
Ignoring this specific case, I would hope they DON'T have the power to "do whatever they want" with an athlete's sample.
The hell kind of argument is that? It doesn't even make sense. Everything in science is speculation? Nothing's been proven? Ever? No facts exist in science?
That other poster is dumb.
People are doing to Jones what a good portion of these boards reviled when referring to other fighters.
"Leave Wandy alone, he had a sprained wrist and doesn't understand English."
"Vitor only uses the recommended and allowed amounts of TRT"
"China's testing protocol is the reason for Cung's failed test"
But the second Jones has tests that are abnormal (but not abnormal to the degree of a failed test) - he's been juicing his whole career, and does bumps before he gets into the cage.
Look, not a person on these boards thinks that if Jones' tests come back positive for PEDs that he should not be stripped (edited for poor wording) and the fight remains called the way it was. No one is arguing that point.
No one thinks he shouldn't have his samples further tested. He should. But until then, it's just a continuous circlejerk of people claiming to know what everyone else is thinking.
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Here is some info I dug up.
[URL="http://www.fightmagazine.com/mma-magazine/substance-abuse-in-mma-cleaning-up-the-sport-one-cheater-at-a-time-6122/]As a former Nevada ring physician and athletic commission member, Dr. Goodman has been around combat sports most of her life. The Las Vegas-based neurologist founded the independent, nonprofit organization VADA in 2011.
“We put together this organization because we felt that no one else was doing enough to try and stop PED use,” says Dr. Goodman. “The testing at athletic commissions was insufficient, it was disorganized, it wasn’t for enough substances, and the panels that test athletes were antiquated. It’s difficult to pass our program—if you’re dirty, don’t come to us. The athletes who are using out there know a heck of a lot more than the commissions do about performance enhancing drugs, and that’s just wrong.”
In an effort to promote clean sports, VADA uses effective anti-doping practices and programs utilizing some of the most stringent and technically advanced tests modern science has available. The organization arranges for their tests to be completed at UCLA Medical Center, and unlike the standard screenings being performed by athletic commissions, VADA does both blood and urine tests, routine blood counts that can show if an athlete is doping, and carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing.
“CIR testing is typically done in an Olympic setting, and it is a way to detect if somebody is using synthetic or exogenerous testosterone, testosterone they’ve taken, as opposed to what’s in their body naturally,” says Dr. Goodman. “It’s hard for somebody abusing testosterone to escape our tests, and I think commissions need to start administering these tests as well.”
Another distinction with VADA is that they perform true unannounced testing, which means an athlete participating in the VADA program can be visited by a screener 24 hours a day, seven days a week in the eight weeks leading up to their fight. They must supply a blood and urine sample right then and there.
“Athletic commissions may do random testing, but they are giving an athlete 24 hours to show up,” says Dr. Goodman. “Short-acting testosterone can be out of your system, and unless you’re doing the CIR testing, you’re not going to pick it up. Lance Armstrong said he wasn’t getting caught because no one was doing unannounced or CIR tests—but VADA does.”
These high-tech tests are very expensive, and it’s up to the participants, sponsors, or donations to cover the costs. Depending on how many times a fighter is tested a year, the price tag can reach in the thousands of dollars.[/URL]
“We put together this organization because we felt that no one else was doing enough to try and stop PED use,” says Dr. Goodman. “The testing at athletic commissions was insufficient, it was disorganized, it wasn’t for enough substances, and the panels that test athletes were antiquated. It’s difficult to pass our program—if you’re dirty, don’t come to us. The athletes who are using out there know a heck of a lot more than the commissions do about performance enhancing drugs, and that’s just wrong.”
In an effort to promote clean sports, VADA uses effective anti-doping practices and programs utilizing some of the most stringent and technically advanced tests modern science has available. The organization arranges for their tests to be completed at UCLA Medical Center, and unlike the standard screenings being performed by athletic commissions, VADA does both blood and urine tests, routine blood counts that can show if an athlete is doping, and carbon isotope ratio (CIR) testing.
“CIR testing is typically done in an Olympic setting, and it is a way to detect if somebody is using synthetic or exogenerous testosterone, testosterone they’ve taken, as opposed to what’s in their body naturally,” says Dr. Goodman. “It’s hard for somebody abusing testosterone to escape our tests, and I think commissions need to start administering these tests as well.”
Another distinction with VADA is that they perform true unannounced testing, which means an athlete participating in the VADA program can be visited by a screener 24 hours a day, seven days a week in the eight weeks leading up to their fight. They must supply a blood and urine sample right then and there.
“Athletic commissions may do random testing, but they are giving an athlete 24 hours to show up,” says Dr. Goodman. “Short-acting testosterone can be out of your system, and unless you’re doing the CIR testing, you’re not going to pick it up. Lance Armstrong said he wasn’t getting caught because no one was doing unannounced or CIR tests—but VADA does.”
These high-tech tests are very expensive, and it’s up to the participants, sponsors, or donations to cover the costs. Depending on how many times a fighter is tested a year, the price tag can reach in the thousands of dollars.[/URL]
Reading this, it appears they have consent for that sort of test.
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It's really an argument of semantics, but I understand what you're saying.
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I like this better.
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I think once you get thru all the BS assumptions and rebuttals on this thread, pretty much everyone agrees on this concept.
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Ahhh maaannnn...that'll take for eeevveeerr! :icon_cry2
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WADA sets standards, but doesnt do testing. VADA is a company that does testing by those standards.
