Stipe never beat a good HW in their prime

[OneOfOne]

Unless it's Fedor fighting a 40+ year old, one-dimensional, 1997-skillset Mark Coleman who ended his career as a LHW losing to an older but much better Randy Couture. Coleman has been brought up countless times here to give Fedor credit for "beating a former UFC champ" and "proving he could beat an elite HW wrestler."

Cro-Cop also gets credit for "other wordly" TDD for defending shots an ancient Coleman telegraphed from 15 feet away. Everyone forgets Big Nog and Gonzaga (BJJ guys, not wrestlers) taking Mirko down.

And those wins are quickly dismissed by Fedor critics as they should be. His wins over Coleman and Randleman are not great wins.

 

[Greg House]

Nelson was in his prime, other than that you got it right.

He wasn't. He was 37 years old. Hell, his beard was white and looked like Santa Claus in that fight. He was just coming of a good win streak by having won his last 3 fights by KO in the first round. All 3 of those fights had lasted less than 3 minutes. In his fight with Stipe, he couldn't get him out of there early with his haymakers and after 3 minutes he was literally done. Breathing heavy through his mouth. He had nothing after only 3 minutes. He just took a beating from Stipe for the next 12 minutes and Stipe couldn't get him out there. Stipe doesn't have a good killer instinct, the same happened to him with Ngannou. Ngannou was done in that fight in the first round after emptying the gas tank.

 

[Trabaho]

Noob? Been here longer than you lol. I like stipe but like all fighters. His career will get a deeper look just like everyone else.

How is beating Gonzaga at 34 not prime in the HW division.
How is beating Werdum as champ not good enough.
It's not his fault the division got old.
Or beating Nganou at 34.
If he beat him the second time would the same people say Nganou was old ?
Or he didn't beat Ubereem? OK sorry that drug testing appeared.
He beat DC for the championship and was 2 years younger. OK that one doesn't count too.

You do need to realize I'm Stipes Countryman and for the same reason I'm anti Fedor cause he prevented CC to become the 1 in pride.


But appreciate everyone's accomplishments.

 

[Trabaho]

I would consider Stipe a "great HW". Id put him in the top 10 all time. Its just that when compared to other great HWs like Fedor, Nog, Cain, JDS, Werdum, and even guys like Barnett and Couture he's lacking the great wins they all have. He's not definitely a top 5 HW leylt alone the HW GOAT like so many make him out to be.

Couture would of beat Nganou ?

Lol Couture. He won in the archaic ages of mma.

Thing is Stipes competiton got old but he apsolutely annihilated most of them. It wasn't close mostly.

He slipped vs Struve, he isn't bad at all, a very solid HW who had a great night, later he declined a lot, remember he was at that time even the betting favorite vs Reem.
Besides that he lost a close fight vs JDS. And dropped 1 fight vs DC. DC did eye poke him in all fights. Nganou knocked him out. DC made for close fights.
And his debut was competitive vs Beltran, it was his first UFC fight
Besides that he beat everyone stupid. Outclassed them. Including the first Nganou fight. He finished everyone off easy and quick. Or out landed them 1-5.

 

[DayV]

Unless it's Fedor fighting a 40+ year old, one-dimensional, 1997-skillset Mark Coleman who ended his career as a LHW being finished by an older but much better Randy Couture. Coleman has been brought up countless times to give Fedor credit for "beating a former UFC champ" and "proving he could beat an elite HW wrestler."

Cro-Cop also gets credit for "other wordly" TDD for defending shots an ancient Coleman telegraphed from 15 feet away. Everyone forgets Big Nog and Gonzaga (BJJ guys, not wrestlers) taking Mirko down.

Coleman still had the best wrestling in entire MMA at that time, and along with his partner Randleman still represented the biggest challenge one could find in terms of takedowns and wrestling. Cro Cop is basically the only opponent Coleman failed to take down. Even older, few years later, he managed to outwrestle Shogun 2 times, Fedor, Milco Voorn and Bonnar.

It is interesting how "Coleman was no good", but 41 yrs old Stipe who did not fight for 2.5 years after beeing KOd is beeing kept in Top 3 on UFC rankings and pushed as the biggest fight, and Cain who was inacticve for 2.5 years was also kept high on rankings to feed Ngannou.

 

[kenetics]

How is beating Gonzaga at 34 not prime in the HW division.
How is beating Werdum as champ not good enough.
It's not his fault the division got old.
Or beating Nganou at 34.
If he beat him the second time would the same people say Nganou was old ?
Or he didn't beat Ubereem? OK sorry that drug testing appeared.
He beat DC for the championship and was 2 years younger. OK that one doesn't count too.

You do need to realize I'm Stipes Countryman and for the same reason I'm anti Fedor cause he prevented CC to become the 1 in pride.


But appreciate everyone's accomplishments.

I appreciate what stipe has done too. And yes it's not his fault he fought and beat older HW. His Francis fight is probably his best win. DC wasn't in his physical prime in the UFC. It was in strike force.

Anyhow I respect you defending your country men.

 

[OneOfOne]

Couture would of beat Nganou ?

Definitely could have

Lol Couture. He won in the archaic ages of mma.

He also won in the Pride era. He beat Gonzaga when Gonzaga was ranked in the top 5. He's also a 3x HW Champion with 3 defenses.

Thing is Stipes competiton got old but he apsolutely annihilated most of them. It wasn't close mostly.

He slipped vs Struve, he isn't bad at all, a very solid HW who had a great night, later he declined a lot, remember he was at that time even the betting favorite vs Reem.
Besides that he lost a close fight vs JDS. And dropped 1 fight vs DC. DC did eye poke him in all fights. Nganou knocked him out. DC made for close fights.
And his debut was competitive vs Beltran, it was his first UFC fight
Besides that he beat everyone stupid. Outclassed them. Including the first Nganou fight. He finished everyone off easy and quick. Or out landed them 1-5.

These are all the reasons why I would call him a great HW. But none of these guys were in their prime other than maybe Ngannou.

 

[Fight Professor]

This thread sounds like an excuse to keep Fedor at #1 if Stipe manages to beat Jones.

 

[chinarice]

This thread sounds like an excuse to keep Fedor at #1 if Stipe manages to beat Jones.

He won't and it's pretty silly to have Stipe above Fedor, IMO and I would say I am a bigger fan of Stipe than I ever was of Fedor.

A lot of Stipe's best wins were over PrideFC guys who were definitely no longer in their prime.

Not his fault but it's true.

 

[Trabaho]

I appreciate what stipe has done too. And yes it's not his fault he fought and beat older HW. His Francis fight is probably his best win. DC wasn't in his physical prime in the UFC. It was in strike force.

Anyhow I respect you defending your country men.

There needs to be a new term for Fedor fans. Prime Hunters. Prime analytics. When Fedor wins = Prime. When Fedor lost = out of prime

 

[kenetics]

There needs to be a new term for Fedor fans. Prime Hunters. Prime analytics. When Fedor wins = Prime. When Fedor lost = out of prime

Well Fedor was in his twenties when he reign in pride...

 

[OneOfOne]

There needs to be a new term for Fedor fans. Prime Hunters. Prime analytics. When Fedor wins = Prime. When Fedor lost = out of prime

I think the term for Stipe fans is Prime Deniers. To them Primes don't even exist.

 

[GOATtalks]

Pride fighters like Nog, Cro Cop, Fedor did in 5 years of Japan entire 15-year careers of modern UFC champions, matching equal or greater number of good to great opponents in a lot shorter time period, with 3 times higher wear & tear frequency.

Stipe (2010 - 2023):

great opponents: DC 3x, Ngannou 2x, JDS 2x, Overeem, Arlovski, Werdum, Jones

good opponents: Nelson, Gonzaga, Struve, De Fries, Hunt

Nogueira (just 2001-2006):

great opponents: Fedor 3x, Cro Cop, Coleman, Herring 1, Barnett 2x, Ricco

good opponents: Shilt, Werdum, Herring 2, Henderson, Valentijn, Volk Han, Sapp, Inoue, Kharitonov, Goodridge

Lol, at Coleman and Herring being great opponents.

Yeah, they fought more often in PRIDE. They were juiced to the gills as well. They didn’t have 8-12 week fight camps too. It’s actually hard to tell what wears a fighters body more, the gruelling work in the gym or the fight itself. Especially if it’s a first round victory and Nog had plenty of those

 

[icemun]

How old were these guys?

Or do their records speak for themselves?

martin lazarov (0-2)
levon lagilava (1-3)
hiroya takada (1-3)
mihail apostolov (0-1)
ryushi yanagisawa (24-25)
lee hasdell (9-14)
chris haseman (20-17)
gary goodridge (23-22)
yuji nagata (0-2)
naoya ogawa (7-2)
zulu (9-9)
hong man choi (4-5)
jaideep singh (2-3)

 

[mkt]

Coleman still had the best wrestling in entire MMA at that time, and along with his partner Randleman still represented the biggest challenge one could find in terms of takedowns and wrestling. Cro Cop is basically the only opponent Coleman failed to take down. Even older, few years later, he managed to outwrestle Shogun 2 times, Fedor, Milco Voorn and Bonnar.

It is interesting how "Coleman was no good", but 41 yrs old Stipe who did not fight for 2.5 years after beeing KOd is beeing kept in Top 3 on UFC rankings and pushed as the biggest fight, and Cain who was inacticve for 2.5 years was also kept high on rankings to feed Ngannou.

Coleman was simply the only HW wrestler at the time. That doesn't mean he was a particularly good one at that age. Shogun and Bonnar were both LWHs, and Shogun has always had awful TDD. Bonnar got suplexed and tossed around by Jon Jones. Now that I think about it, Couture was in the UFC and I'd have picked him or Tito to beat Coleman during the time of the Fedor fights--especially under UFC's drug testing (notice Coleman immediately went to 205 when he came back to the UFC). And Coleman wouldn't have wanted any part of Lesnar or Carwin at HW.

Voorn's ground game was horrendous....not sure why you showed that.

 

[orca]

You're a pathetic UFC shill lmaaoo

Mirko, Nog and AA wouldn't lose to STEFAN STRUVE in their 20s. The same Struve who knocked prime 30 year old Stipe dead in Stipes 10th fight. You UFC fanboys are so desperate and pathetic. You give Fedor zero credit for beating AA when he was in his 20s but blow Stipe for knocking out old ass 37 year old AA after he'd been knocked out like 8 times already. Pathetic ufc fanboy chumps lol

lmao fedors best win where cro cop and nog
u think prime cro cop and nog could beat these out of prime fighters your saying?
lol

 

[DayV]

Voorn's ground game was horrendous....not sure why you showed that.

On the footage you can see the perfect fast hook that hit Voorn's face thrown by Coleman ("who did not know how to throw a punch") transitioned immediatley in split second into super fast and explosive perfect takedown. A move that would catch and render helpless fighters a lot better than Voorn.

It shows that even in October of 2005 roided Coleman still had skills, explosiveness and speed to take down almost anyone.

 

[Melas Chasma]

He wasn't. He was 37 years old. Hell, his beard was white and looked like Santa Claus in that fight. He was just coming of a good win streak by having won his last 3 fights by KO in the first round. All 3 of those fights had lasted less than 3 minutes. In his fight with Stipe, he couldn't get him out of there early with his haymakers and after 3 minutes he was literally done. Breathing heavy through his mouth. He had nothing after only 3 minutes. He just took a beating from Stipe for the next 12 minutes and Stipe couldn't get him out there. Stipe doesn't have a good killer instinct, the same happened to him with Ngannou. Ngannou was done in that fight in the first round after emptying the gas tank.

Nelson lost to every elite HW the same way during his prime. He had never been a better fighter than he was when he fought Stipe. He was exactly at the point in his career where fighters are at their absolute peaks on average, 9 years as a pro with about 20-30 fights.

And lol at trying to use his careers best KO streak before fighting Stipe as an argument against him.

 

[Greg House]

Nelson lost to every elite HW the same way during his prime. He had never been a better fighter than he was when he fought Stipe. He was exactly at the point in his career where fighters are at their absolute peaks on average, 9 years as a pro with about 20-30 fights.

And lol at trying to use his careers best KO streak before fighting Stipe as an argument against him.

You have no idea what you are talking about. He was 37. That's a fact. He gassed after just 3 minutes into the fight. That's a fact. He went 4-12 on his next fights. Another fact. Watch the fight and stop looking at wikipedia numbers.

LOL At 37 years old being your "absolute peak". He was old, and it showed in that fight.

 

[OneOfOne]

"37yr old at his absolute peak!" Lol