STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[BisexualMMA]

I think this nails it.

I don't mind quirky if we're gonna set the tone for parts of the movie. But pace it. Look at Empire. We still had our one-liners and our jokes, but when it was time to set a serious tone, they kept that tone until the tension was gone. The last 45-minutes of Empire aren't interrupted with wise cracks.

With TLJ, we'd have a tense scene, where we are supposed to be worried that the final part of the rebellion is in danger of being wiped out, and we cut to a CGI chicken screeching for a cheap laugh. It takes you out of really feeling that there is some inherent danger here.

That was the point. Rian Johnson didn't give you what you thought you'd get (deserved) with the rest of the scene. Isn't it brilliant?

Star Wars Episode 8: The Switcheroo Awakens

 

[Goonerview]

going by this Disney also think it will tank lol


For some time now, there’s been a nagging sense that all might not be well behind the scenes of Disney’s Star Wars Universe. The Force Awakens and Rogue One seemingly washed away the stale memories of George Lucas’s prequel trilogy, but a string of high profile departures from the forthcoming sequels and some very divisive reactions to The Last Jedi have somewhat undermined that. Now, it looks like things could get even worse, as a source close to the production of Solo: A Star Wars Story has revealed the company is bracing itself for that film to fail significantly.

A source close to the film’s production has informed us:

Disney is bracing themselves for the Han Solo movie to bomb. They were worried about it before all The Last Jedi controversy, but now they’re essentially writing Solo off. The lead actor, Alden Ehrenreich, can’t act, and they had a dialogue coach on hand for all of his scenes. On top of that, the script is unworkable. It’s going to be a car crash.

Part of this information was already somewhat backed up by a story that circulated online back in June about the production team having reportedly brought in an acting coach in for lead actor Alden Eichenreich. The Hollywood Reporter stated that Lucasfilm executives had insisted on the measure when footage was shown to them of Eichenreich playing the iconic smuggler, and it fell far short of the standard they had been expecting.

The movie has already had some very visible issues, having lost directors and actors during its journey to the big screen. And it’s not alone, with director Colin Treverrow having also been removed from production of Episode IX. The vague reasoning provided by Lucasfilm for his removal, along with that of Phil Miller and Chris Lord from Solo is that the vision of all three directors was incompatible with that of the parent company. Which seems slightly unusual given the two very different interpretations of the Star Wars canon that both Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson were recently allowed to deliver.

This would seem to be only one part of the problem though. As well as needing to work with a large amount of conceptual material and footage that had already been completed by Miller and Lord, new director Ron Howard is also having to contend with some other very fundamental issues.

The mention of the script being of a poor quality is also supported by comments recently made by actor Paul Bettany. It was expected that Ron Howard would need to tweak some of the existing material, but the extent to which he has needed to re-shoot the footage meant that Michael K Williams had to be dropped from the movie, with Bettany bought on board to replace him.

This is a fairly unorthodox move, and last week Bettany disclosed in an interview that Howard had actually been forced to do a lot more filming that he had initially wanted to. This would seem to bear out that the material he had been left to work with was proving more difficult to adapt than he had first thought.

Given the essential qualities that Harrison Ford bought to the success of the role, the choice of a Han Solo origins story had always carried with it more risk than the studio was perhaps comfortable with. Couple that with the existence of this mysterious stumbling block that half of the directors Lucasfilm hire seem to reach, and the massive overreaction by some hardcore fans to The Last Jedi, then it’s entirely conceivable that the damage has unfortunately already been done to the project before it even reaches cinemas.

A trailer for Solo: A Star Wars Story is expected within the next week, and the movie is due for release on May 25th, 2018.

http://www.screengeek.net/2017/12/24/disney-expects-solo-a-star-wars-story-to-bomb/

Wow, just ... wow!

So, with the number trilogy, they are changing directors every episode. Now, they are changing directors mid-movie .... lol, this is going to be a mess.

They should bring back George Lucas and pay him whatever he wants.

In my mind, these new disney movies are NOT canon.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Wow, just ... wow!

So, with the number trilogy, they are changing directors every episode. Now, they are changing directors mid-movie .... lol, this is going to be a mess.

They should bring back George Lucas and pay him whatever he wants.

In my mind, these new disney movies are NOT canon.

This is why I said I am actually concerned for the future with this film getting strong reviews for what it set out to do.

I don't want an incentive created for filmmakers to spend a whole movie actually tearing down Rocky Balboa, tearing down Kyle Reese, tearing down John Rambo, tearing down Alex Murphy, tearing down Indiana Jones, tearing down Mad Max, tearing down John McClane, tearing down Captain Kirk, tearing down Martin Riggs, demonstrating they weren't the heroes you thought they were and that you never should have been cheering for them in the first place.

It's not an achievement that should be celebrated.

If they have their way, the Alien 5 Neill Blomkamp was talking about will get made, but it will spend half its running time showing that Hicks is really a piece of shit.

 

[Guestx]

This is why I said I am actually concerned for the future with this film getting strong reviews for what it set out to do.

I don't want an incentive created for filmmakers to spend a whole movie actually tearing down Rocky Balboa, tearing down Kyle Reese, tearing down John Rambo, tearing down Alex Murphy, tearing down Indiana Jones, tearing down Mad Max, tearing down John McClane, tearing down Captain Kirk, tearing down Martin Riggs, demonstrating they weren't the heroes you thought they were and that you never should have been cheering for them in the first place.

It's not an achievement that should be celebrated.

Let me ask you this, are you still sticking by the "I never said I didn't like it" line that you fed me a few days ago?

Because it's pretty clear you don't actually like the movie at this point. I don't believe I've seen you say a single positive thing about it beyond, perhaps, "nice effects" or something along those lines.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Let me ask you this, are you still sticking by the "I never did I didn't like it" line that you fed me a few days ago?

Because it's pretty clear you don't actually like the movie at this point. I don't believe I've seen you say a single positive thing about it beyond, perhaps, "nice effects" or something along those lines.

Well, I will say that I think it shouldn't exist.

And I think it's thus fair to infer that I don't like it.

I gave it a 5 in the rating poll, but the truth is I find it next to impossible to rate. As I said, I've never seen a film like it, and I've never seen a film made with such intentions toward a committed and trusting audience.

I actually do understand the ratings of "1" and I can't say I completely disagree with them and I certainly don't think they're the product of an "alt right conspiracy." At least in visual terms, it is magnificently crafted about 90% of the time. Yet I feel the film itself is not being treated unfairly if it is called an abomination.

I think it's made with twisted motives, but in many ways, is still masterfully executed for the most part.

The script and plot are certainly not masterful, even setting aside my issues with the writer's intent.

I don't know how to rate something like this.

But I do think it should never have been written or filmed.

 

[Guestx]

Well, I will say that I think it shouldn't exist.

And I think it's thus fair to infer that I don't like it.

I gave it a 5 in the rating poll, but the truth is I find it next to impossible to rate. As I said, I've never seen a film like it, and I've never seen a film made with such intentions toward a committed and trusting audience.

I actually do understand the ratings of "1" and I can't say I completely disagree with them and I certainly don't think they're the product of an "alt right conspiracy." At least in visual terms, it is magnificently crafted about 90% of the time. Yet I feel the film itself is not being treated unfairly if it is called an abomination.

I think it's made with twisted motives, but in many ways, is still masterfully executed for the most part.

The script and plot are certainly not masterful, even setting aside my issues with the writer's intent.

I don't know how to rate something like this.

But I do think it should never have been written or filmed.

Well I appreciate you finally just putting it out there and dropping the facade that, hey, you might actually like the movie! It's just that, you have nothing good to say about it!

Let's go back to something you just said a few minutes ago when you listed out all these past action heroes and then ended with ". . . demonstrating they weren't the heroes you thought they were and that you never should have been cheering for them in the first place."

I'm not sure I really understand this viewpoint. Is it really such an insult to the character and the fanbase to write a storyline where 40 years of living in a world at war has taken away some of the hope he once had and has made him cynical? And is it not true that, at the end of the film, he shows up once again to fight for the cause and to proclaim a message of hope? Are we not given a glimmer of the old Luke, and is it not clear that he has begun to believe again? Furthermore, does he not nobly sacrifice his life for his friends?

 

[BisexualMMA]

Well I appreciate you finally just putting it out there and dropping the facade that, hey, you might actually like the movie! It's just that, you have nothing good to say about it!

I wasn't putting up a facade. Like I said, I gave it a 5 in the poll. All five points based on technical achievements.

But I also think it might be fair to give it an outright zero.

Let's go back to something you just said a few minutes ago when you listed out all these past action heroes and then ended with ". . . demonstrating they weren't the heroes you thought they were and that you never should have been cheering for them in the first place."

I'm not sure I really understand this viewpoint. Is it really such an insult to the character and the fanbase to write a storyline where 40 years of living in a world at war has taken away some of the hope he once had and has made him cynical?

The movie, at its core, was about depriving the audience, at least its longtime core, committed audience. Luke was really Rian Johnson's pawn here. He was obviously the center of the audience's hopes for this movie, and thus he was the main target. Making him a useless semi-coward and then killing him was really the best way to neuter and nullify him, and make it impossible to give the audience any of what it wanted in the future.

And is it not true that, at the end of the film, he shows up once again to fight for the cause and to proclaim a message of hope? Are we not given a glimmer of the old Luke, and is it not clear that he has begun to believe again? Furthermore, does he not nobly sacrifice his life for his friends?

He shows up and "fights" but again, that scene was primarily about depriving the audience. It was actually a great scene, with Luke delivering his best line of the movie after strategically bitchslapping Kylo Ren. "See you around, kid." Fucking powned. Luke is back and better than ever.

Nah, just kidding, he's dead now.

Gotcha!

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I see what you’re saying, but while Luke’s training was certainly truncated as well, he did receive some fundamental training from Obi Wan and more intensive training from Yoda. Rey, I don’t believe, has nearly that much training and her ability to use the force far exceeds Luke’s already. I mean, look at Kylo. He has formal training from both Luke and Snoke and he gets tooled by Rey on the reg.

I don't think she tooled Kylo regularly. Resisting the mind probe & getting the light saber are a testament to a stronger will... so it's not really something you can gain by training... it's something you gotta live. Kylo is a snobby upper middle class rich kid who had everything handed to him his whole life... & Rey has been an on her own with her survival on the line since she was very young. The force responds to focus & belief. Rey couldn't afford doubt in the light saber scene as she believed her life was on the line. Her intense survival instinct kicked in & the force worked better for her. Could also add into that discussion that Kyber Crystals are sentient & in tune with the force... & they actually resist dark side users... not to mention the Kyber all ready called out to Rey & knows that's who it wants to go to. So there's probably some of that in the reasoning as well.

So I can reason with those things.

Other than those 2 things... she looked good in a light saber fight that Kylo was actually trying to recruit her during... & that's about all they've faced off. I find that believable as well. She became an elite staff fighter out of pure survival necessity... & Kylo wasn't trying to beat her anyway. He was also bleeding enough from the body to go through several layers of clothing & run down his trench coat. Even with the injury though... it could've been a lot different if he was actually trying to kill her.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

 

[Amerikuracana]

You see, this is the thing. . .

You rehash and old storyline, and people want something new. You try to lay the track for something new, like Rian is doing here, and people want the old shit.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't think people complained ENOUGH about the rehashed plot on TFA. People were just happy with the look and nostalgia, AND for the potential it created for the next film. Exact same rebellion v Empire was a mistake, for sure.

People are attacking small parts of this movie too hard, in reverse of not attacking the rehash plot of TFA enough.

In society in general, people are getting tired of pop-culture shaming the decent past. This is a straw on a heavily burdened camel in that department.

 

[Goonerview]

I don't think people complained ENOUGH about the rehashed plot on TFA. People were just happy with the look and nostalgia, AND for the potential it created for the next film. Exact same rebellion v Empire was a mistake, for sure.

People are attacking small parts of this movie too hard, in reverse of not attacking the rehash plot of TFA enough.

In society in general, people are getting tired of pop-culture shaming the decent past. This is a straw on a heavily burdened camel in that department.

I agree. TFA looked and felt just like the remake of Star Trek movies. Have the new actors come in, do the same storyline, cameo performance from the old actors "passing the torch" scene... YAAAWN ... so f**king boring/predictable.

 

[Tiny]

I don't think she tooled Kylo regularly. Resisting the mind probe & getting the light saber are a testament to a stronger will... so it's not really something you can gain by training... it's something you gotta live. Kylo is a snobby upper middle class rich kid who had everything handed to him his whole life... & Rey has been an on her own with her survival on the line since she was very young. The force responds to focus & belief. Rey couldn't afford doubt in the light saber scene as she believed her life was on the line. Her intense survival instinct kicked in & the force worked better for her. Could also add into that discussion that Kyber Crystals are sentient & in tune with the force... & they actually resist dark side users... not to mention the Kyber all ready called out to Rey & knows that's who it wants to go to. So there's probably some of that in the reasoning as well.



Other than those 2 things... she looked good in a light saber fight that Kylo was actually trying to recruit her during... & that's about all they've faced off. I find that believable as well. She became an elite staff fighter out of pure survival necessity... & Kylo wasn't trying to beat her anyway. He was also bleeding enough from the body to go through several layers of clothing & run down his trench coat. Even with the injury though... it could've been a lot different if he was actually trying to kill her.

God. It's another idiot trying to pretend she isn't a Mary Sue.

You do know the only situation she didn't get herself out of was against snoke, right? Outside of that scene, she's gotten herself out of all danger. She can do all things, speak all languages and knows the force more than anyone else.

She's a Mary Sue. It's just what she is.

 

[Bonos]

A lot of fans that love FA and RO hate this, and i'm ok with that. I mean the old EU and the new cannon is also well liked and it's mostly trash. This film gave some much needed energy to the empty husk that SW had become.

Proper sequels to the OT should have been made 20 years ago, and later FA was such a languid piece of crap that it had already destroyed the story that you guys wanted to see. I think it's fun genre film-making, not perfect but I much rather see the direction it went to rather than all the obvious stuff that would have made it dull and somber.

Godspeed Ryan.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

God. It's another idiot trying to pretend she isn't a Mary Sue.

You do know the only situation she didn't get herself out of was against snoke, right? Outside of that scene, she's gotten herself out of all danger. She can do all things, speak all languages and knows the force more than anyone else.

She's a Mary Sue. It's just what she is.

That was rude. I guess if I had to choose, I'd rather be an idiot than an ass hole. How about you go f*ck yourself.

What's this Mary Sue business all about anyway? You're calling her mary Sue because she has lots of abilities? I don't get the reference. Try to communicate a little more civilized next time. Nobody needs to be called names while discussing things in here.

 

[Goonerview]

"There are people that are angry that the characters of the original trilogy now have flaws"

I disagree. Han Solo going back to being a smuggler after such a huge character arch in the OT is shitty writing, shoe-horned in for nostalgia .

Aside from that, he makes some good points.

I still think JJ Abrams screwed the pooch on this trilogy before Rian Johnson.

 

[WAR_CLAY_GUIDA!!]

This review is dead-on, with a few minor exceptions I share his sentiments exactly.

-He's way too hard on Luke.

-He doesn't address the obvious commentary the movie does in reguards to gambling, animal cruelty, religion, female authority figures (with purple hair), and adding another diversity main character (the ugly fat asian chick.)

The video fully justifies my 2/10 rating, in a way I can't type an explanation for within a few paragraphs.

No, he seemed to pissed in general to get any of that across in his analysis. But I definitely noticed those themes. And the detracted from the film and only serve to piss me off even more.

He said Rey never seen the force used before, but shes seen kylo use it. But I guess his point stands. And I don't think people realize the ramifications of the light speed into larger ships tactic has on the rest of the saga past and present. Not only did it cripple Snokes ship. But it destroyed every star destroyer that was escorting it. It wouldn't take out the death star out right. but a well placed shot definitely takes it out of the battle if not out right making it completely useless. A hit like that on the death star would at the very least leave a large opening for smaller ships to exploit. And the low speed chase makes no sense because if the rebel ships were faster then they would have slowly gotten out of range completely over the course of the movie. They are actually moving at the same speed, so why not light speed to a ship or two ahead of the rebel cruiser and head them off? And they're in space, how the fuck do the powerful blasters of a star destroyer or snokes ship have such a small affective range? How the fuck do they lose so much energy without anything to slow them down? I can see maybe targeting accuracy decrease do the long distances in space. But the cruiser was in the same line of fire the entire time, and same distance. Those shields should have been toast pretty quickly.

And the WWII style bombing run in the opening battle makes no fucking sense what so ever. It bothered me immediately. First why are the bombers so fucking slow, and so easy to take out? Why make a bomber so easy to destroy without compensating by say making them faster and more nimble? Why the need to drop bombs over a target in space? It's fucking space! spray them bad boys straight ahead, split the bombers up and have them attack at different angles? Smart bombs don't exist here, but they did in the prequels? I can go on and on about how fucking stupid this writing is.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

You make solid points. I'm just not sure how big of concerns they are for me.

I do want to address the "why don't the rebels always just kamikaze their ships" question though.

You could ask the same thing about our military: Why don't our pilots just fly their planes into enemy bases? Why don't our naval destroyers just ram the enemies' naval destroyers?

Well, for one, those planes and ships are FUCKING EXPENSIVE! And for another, there's the obvious loss of life.

When you really think about it, it's not a sound strategy. In this case, it made sense because the Rebellion was about to lose that ship anyway.



Yeah, I think it all depends on what you want out of Star Wars. What kind of tone?

I think the tone has always been kind of uneven. I mean, in the Phantom Menace Jar Jar gets farted on.

But see, i would rather just not make a situation where we even have to entertain such silly situations. If you're creating a movie world, then you have to some kind of rules or laws in your world.
If the rebels are a smaller, weaker force, then it makes sense why they would do more extreme tactics. Our military doesn't do it because it's expensive and it would be unnecessary. Which is why Alquaeda fighters had no problem with suicide bombing because they lack the resources to fight USA on even terms, power for power.
So now in the next movie, if there's a dreadnought looming about to bring sure death, then we always have to ask, why not light speed ram it?

I just needed the tone to make sense. I wasn't looking for anything crazy or outlandish. It didn't need to be super funny, or super serious. But it did a lousy job of setting a consistent tone in key moments. Moments where i should feel tense, or sad, or conflicted were immediately ruined with a joke.
Rey is about to learn what the force is from Luke. ..the master. The first introduction is a dumb joke? From crotchety old Luke?
It's like they just had segments marked out where they HAD to insert a joke, regardless of who was saying them, or what just happened in the scene.

 

[BisexualMMA]

That was rude. I guess if I had to choose, I'd rather be an idiot than an ass hole. How about you go f*ck yourself.

What's this Mary Sue business all about anyway? You're calling her mary Sue because she has lots of abilities? I don't get the reference. Try to communicate a little more civilized next time. Nobody needs to be called names while discussing things in here.

A Mary Sue is a poorly written type of character and the name comes from fan fiction, where it seems like nerdy girls are always writing themselves into stories as the heroine, usually with names like Mary Sue [lastname] (or guys, as a "Gary Stu") and as an idealized version of themselves.

These characters are simply great at everything, the top marks in their class, the best fighting skills, etc. And generally they are this way simply "because they are." They don't really have journeys and growth because they start out super-awesome and end the story that way too.

The term didn't seem to really become a household word until (now disgraced?) screenwriter Max Landis famously said that Rey is one, and that criticism got a lot of play. Thus, it also made Rey the only character that the general public really associates with the term.

For what it's worth, I would agree that she is one. The Force Awakens left openings for this to be remedied / explained, but The Last Jedi seemed to work pretty hard to shut them all down.

 

[Tiny]

A Mary Sue is a poorly written type of character and the name comes from fan fiction, where it seems like nerdy girls are always writing themselves into stories as the heroine, usually with names like Mary Sue [lastname] (or guys, as a "Gary Stu") and as an idealized version of themselves.

These characters are simply great at everything, the top marks in their class, the best fighting skills, etc. And generally they are this way simply "because they are." They don't really have journeys and growth because they start out super-awesome and end the story that way too.

The term didn't seem to really become a household word until (now disgraced?) screenwriter Max Landis famously said that Rey is one, and that criticism got a lot of play. Thus, it also made Rey the only character that the general public really associates with the term.

For what it's worth, I would agree that she is one. The Force Awakens left openings for this to be remedied / explained, but The Last Jedi seemed to work pretty hard to shut them all down.

Speaks wookie
Speaks droid
Knows the falcon better than Han having never been on the fucking thing before
Doesn't know the force is real, twenty minutes later she uses it to mind control a storm trooper before over powering this trilogy's big bad guy mentally.
Never had Jedi training, bests a sith in a light sabre battle.
Goes to train the Luke, bests him in a stick fight...

If she isn't a Mary Sue nobody is.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

I don't know if you're content just hating on the movie or if you actually want answers to what you posted. however, there are explanations to these things.

Speaks wookie
Speaks droid
Knows the falcon better than Han having never been on the fucking thing before

It's not that she knew the Falcon better... but she just understood how a vast variety of ships work in general. That was her trade... & her survival depended on it. Plus, that's all she had to do for all those years.

I can't really say it any better than Rey's Canon page on wookiepedia
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rey

Rey also had a computer display from an old BTL-A4 Y-wing assault starfighter/bomber that she used to learn alien languages, study the schematics of Republic and Imperial starships, and run flight simulations in order to hone her skills as a pilot. Her ability to understand alien languages, including the binary language of droids, helped her when off-worlders came to Niima Outpost. Two such off-worlders were Wookiees, who regaled her with the stories of the famed Wookiee smuggler-turned-Rebel fighter Chewbacca. She learned of Chewbacca's exploits, as well as those of his friend and fellow smuggler Han Solo. Studying schematics to learn how ships worked was also an important part of her survival on Jakku. She recognized almost all of the Republic and Imperial vessels that could be found in the Graveyard, including what roles they played in combat, the types of weapons they were armed with, their models and classes, and how many crew members each one had. She learned this not just through studying schematics on her computer, but also by climbing through and exploring the ships and tinkering with their systems. This let her know what each part was, what it could do, whether it worked, and, most importantly, whether it would carry any value in Niima Outpost

Doesn't know the force is real, twenty minutes later she uses it to mind control a storm trooper before over powering this trilogy's big bad guy mentally.

Kylo pretty much taught her how to enter people's minds when he was probing her & she realized that she could also recognize his thoughts. It actually took her a few tries to get it right, but its the same technique learned while in Kylo's mind. She just enhanced it from reading to inserting thoughts... similar to the Jedi stories she had heard. I don't find it hard to believe at all.

Goes to train the Luke, bests him in a stick fight

Rey was well known on Jakku for her staff fighting ability, & no one f*cked with her accept for visitors who hadn't heard of her abilities. She was elite... & its not like Luke was really invested in the fight... & he hasn't been fighting for years so he also had ring rust. Besides any of that... Luke was actually besting her until she called the lightsaber into the stick fight.

Never had Jedi training, bests a sith in a light sabre battle.

I personally don't find it that hard to believe that her abilities as an elite staff fighter can transfer to the sword.

Kylo was the apprentice of what we are assuming is a Sith (not a sith himself)... but to your point, Kylo was trained in Light Saber battles by Luke from an early age & likely further by Snoke.

As mentioned in my previous post... Kylo was trying to recruit her, not kill her. She got a few good licks in but it's not like he was trying to kill her.