STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

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i have a gripe with it. when they do light speed its almost like a teleport( i know its not) but to think you could light speed through the galaxy and never hit anything is baffling.

I’m not caught up to know if this is been mentioned yet but in SW universe you can hit shit at light speed. It’s not teleport

Han mentioned in hope that it takes time and complex calculations before a light speed jump to keep from hitting shit and blowing yourself up.


Also on the fuel deal, small ships have needed fuel and have range. Since the beginning also. They mention the tie fighter is too far out to be by itself as they don’t have the range. And then they see the Death Star before being caught in the tractor beam.

So it’s mentioned in the very first movie that the smaller ships don’t have range and it’s emplied that larger ships have power generators, like our nuke powered naval vessels. They don’t need to refuel.

You can see tie fighters plugged in and charging in the earlier movies.


Johnson just didn’t known enough about the series and fucked this up.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

At this point, she definitely is. But TLJ made her a a Mary Sue, not Force Awakens. FA does a good job of her showing her as powerful, but she still needed wasnt able to do everything on her own. Finn helps her piloting against the Tie fighters (tells her how to avoid their tracking by staying low), Finn is there to take up Rens time after Ren knocked her out. The blaster wound, etc. Then theres the all the hints that this is not her first time using the force.

The Rian Johnson undid all that shit, and now she can pick up a light saber and kill elite trained Praetorian guards. And do basically all the force powers. Literally like 72 hours after she discovers she's force sensitive.

Can't agree, she's an absolute textbook Mary Sue in Force Awakens, that term doesn't mean a character that's all powerful but rather one who constantly develops abilities as needed who other chaarcters tend to show sudden incompetence around in order to make her appear more competent plus of course someone without any questionable moral issues to them.

I didn't think the character was quite so bad in this film but it had to deal with the legacy of Abrams shallow work and honestly I felt Ridley herself wasn't really up to it acting wise a lot of the time, came across as very wooden ior off key in a lot of the scenes with Luke.

This film really has to deal with TFA not just showing Rey as someone with some force potential using limited abilities but rather someone with the power to defeat a fully trained Jedi turned Sith in Kylo. That really was an awful decision for me, Abrams wanting a big heroic moment for his film and being willing to crap on what came next to do it.

Its akin to Lucas having Luke totally outfly Vader at the end of A New Hope, imagine how damaging that would be to the potential of ESB. That was even a time when a sequel wasn't certain as well like it was with TFA.

 

[Bob Gray]

Can't agree, she's an absolute textbook Mary Sue in Force Awakens, that term doesn't mean a character that's all powerful but rather one who constantly develops abilities as needed who other chaarcters tend to show sudden incompetence around in order to make her appear more competent plus of course someone without any questionable moral issues to them.

I didn't think the character was quite so bad in this film but it had to deal with the legacy of Abrams shallow work and honestly I felt Ridley herself wasn't really up to it acting wise a lot of the time, came across as very wooden ior off key in a lot of the scenes with Luke.

This film really has to deal with TFA not just showing Rey as someone with some force potential using limited abilities but rather someone with the power to defeat a fully trained Jedi turned Sith in Kylo. That really was an awful decision for me, Abrams wanting a big heroic moment for his film and being willing to crap on what came next to do it.

Its akin to Lucas having Luke totally outfly Vader at the end of A New Hope, imagine how damaging that would be to the potential of ESB. That was even a time when a sequel wasn't certain as well like it was with TFA.

Thats a different interpretation of the term than Ive heard, which basically makes it a label put on a character that is basically perfect and never experiences any struggle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

But in Force Awakens, I dont think she met your criteria. She had help at nearly every turn, and even her victory was when the villain was "handicapped".

Now, in TLJ, she doesnt even need those handicaps. Kylo was trained by fucking Luke Skywalker AND Snoke and Rey seems to be pretty much at his level.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Thats a different interpretation of the term than Ive heard, which basically makes it a label put on a character that is basically perfect and never experiences any struggle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

But in Force Awakens, I dont think she met your criteria. She had help at nearly every turn, and even her victory was when the villain was "handicapped".

Now, in TLJ, she doesnt even need those handicaps. Kylo was trained by fucking Luke Skywalker AND Snoke and Rey seems to be pretty much at his level.

The character never really experiences any moral struggle in TFA though and again develops abilities as needed to overcome whatever stands in her way without assistance.

The "handicapping" of Kylo was incredibly cheap for me, its thrown in as an excuse but the film never really commits to it, Kylo doesn't fight like a badly injuried person in the confrontation with Rey and your left with no doubt its her abilities that carry the day.

The core of a Mary Sue is really a character that works almost totally by wish fulfilment which to me is Rey down to a T. The character feels like it belongs more in a Starwars theme park ride to me which I spose you could say means it belongs in TFA which is really along those lines, a film utterly beholden to previous attachment to Starwars. I felt this style of film making was just about tolerable with one Star Trek film as at least there you could argue there was pushing into parody with some character to it but I think has been shown to be terrible at setting up a franchise.

Disney goofed picking JJ as a safe option to pump out a formula film for me when they really needed someone who would try and build up a proper reintroduction to the franchise. Not helped by just how much a load of net comentators where claiming he was suitable for the role.

 

[Bob Gray]

The character never really experiences any moral struggle in TFA though and again develops abilities as needed to overcome whatever stands in her way without assistance.

The "handicapping" of Kylo was incredibly cheap for me, its thrown in as an excuse but the film never really commits to it, Kylo doesn't fight like a badly injuried person in the confrontation with Rey and your left with no doubt its her abilities that carry the day.

The core of a Mary Sue is really a character that works almost totally by wish fulfilment which to me is Rey down to a T. The character feels like it belongs more in a Starwars theme park ride to me which I spose you could say means it belongs in TFA which is really along those lines, a film utterly beholden to previous attachment to Starwars. I felt this style of film making was just about tolerable with one Star Trek film as at least there you could argue there was pushing into parody with some character to it but I think has been shown to be terrible at setting up a franchise.

Disney goofed picking JJ as a safe option to pump out a formula film for me when they really needed someone who would try and build up a proper reintroduction to the franchise. Not helped by just how much a load of net comentators where claiming he was suitable for the role.

Well, looks like we disagree about pretty much everything and I doubt we'll change each others minds.

 

[A.S. Deep]

My mom's a huge Star Wars fans (even liked the prequels) but she hated TLJ. Why?

1. She found the Rose/ Finn stuff pointless
2. She finds Finn and Poe not as good looking as young Han Solo lol. Wow, Mom.

 

[EvilDDS]

I don't know if you're content just hating on the movie or if you actually want answers to what you posted. however, there are explanations to these things.

It's not that she knew the Falcon better... but she just understood how a vast variety of ships work in general. That was her trade... & her survival depended on it. Plus, that's all she had to do for all those years.

I can't really say it any better than Rey's Canon page on wookiepedia
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rey

Rey also had a computer display from an old BTL-A4 Y-wing assault starfighter/bomber that she used to learn alien languages, study the schematics of Republic and Imperial starships, and run flight simulations in order to hone her skills as a pilot. Her ability to understand alien languages, including the binary language of droids, helped her when off-worlders came to Niima Outpost. Two such off-worlders were Wookiees, who regaled her with the stories of the famed Wookiee smuggler-turned-Rebel fighter Chewbacca. She learned of Chewbacca's exploits, as well as those of his friend and fellow smuggler Han Solo. Studying schematics to learn how ships worked was also an important part of her survival on Jakku. She recognized almost all of the Republic and Imperial vessels that could be found in the Graveyard, including what roles they played in combat, the types of weapons they were armed with, their models and classes, and how many crew members each one had. She learned this not just through studying schematics on her computer, but also by climbing through and exploring the ships and tinkering with their systems. This let her know what each part was, what it could do, whether it worked, and, most importantly, whether it would carry any value in Niima Outpost


Kylo pretty much taught her how to enter people's minds when he was probing her & she realized that she could also recognize his thoughts. It actually took her a few tries to get it right, but its the same technique learned while in Kylo's mind. She just enhanced it from reading to inserting thoughts... similar to the Jedi stories she had heard. I don't find it hard to believe at all.


Rey was well known on Jakku for her staff fighting ability, & no one f*cked with her accept for visitors who hadn't heard of her abilities. She was elite... & its not like Luke was really invested in the fight... & he hasn't been fighting for years so he also had ring rust.

I personally don't find it that hard to believe that her abilities as an elite staff fighter can transfer to the sword.

Kylo was the apprentice of what we are assuming is a Sith (not a sith himself)... but to your point, Kylo was trained in Light Saber battles by Luke from an early age & likely further by Snoke.

As mentioned in my previous post... Kylo was trying to recruit her, not kill her. She got a few good licks in but it's not like he was trying to kill her.

Good points. I know that you know all this stuff @Myrddin Wild so I was just going to add for the others, that this info was in the book Before The Awakening. Rey had access to a flight simulator for so many different ships, and became so good at piloting during the simulation that she would test herself and make things extremely difficult in order to sharpen herself
Also, within this book are the backstories of Finn and what an elite warrior he was in Stormtrooper training. And of Poe, as Leia recruits him to join the resistance.

I get it that it's not presented on screen and some people have a hard time with it. The canon universe is huge and there are so many sources. Guess it's another way for the hard-core fans to explore and gather information, and for Disney I guess to make more money, as they know the hard-cores will want answers

I'm actually surprised not much mention has been brought up about how Phasma is in TLJ actually, since that wasn't properly explained in the movie. Last we saw of her, she's being dumped into a trash compactor. And there's a canon source for that too, about how she escapes. The Phasma comic, and the Phasma book on her background and how she came to be in the First Order

 

[Guestx]

But see, i would rather just not make a situation where we even have to entertain such silly situations. If you're creating a movie world, then you have to some kind of rules or laws in your world.
If the rebels are a smaller, weaker force, then it makes sense why they would do more extreme tactics. Our military doesn't do it because it's expensive and it would be unnecessary. Which is why Alquaeda fighters had no problem with suicide bombing because they lack the resources to fight USA on even terms, power for power.
So now in the next movie, if there's a dreadnought looming about to bring sure death, then we always have to ask, why not light speed ram it?

Well I think that even in the magical world of Star Wars there are some real-world concerns that these guys have to worry about.

All of these massive spaceships no doubt cost tons of money to produce and acquire--there's even a line in this film about the Rebellion buying weapons from the same people the First Order gets theirs from--so they don't exactly grow on trees. To lose one is to lose a huge investment, especially for a small, cash-strapped group that's on the brink of extinction, and if they just go ramming their ships into the First Order's ships on a consistent basis, it won't be long before they have no ships left. Then what?

Maybe it would make some sense if the Rebellion was the larger, dominant organization but that's clearly not the case. They're a ragtag group of rabble-rousers and by this point there's not much left of them.

I think what's important to understand about the moment in the movie is that they were about to lose that ship anyway. That ship was fucked, there was no saving it, hence the evacuation. In that moment the decision to sacrifice it made sense only because it was about to either be destroyed or captured by the enemy.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Everyone's making a really good point. Just terrific.

WOOD. HARD.

 

[minute bull]

 

[ufcfan4]

.....and the other thing that bothered me a lot was the scene where Jedi Strong Woman slashes the rock with a lighsaber which then proceeds to fall and crush the wagon of the two alien keepers pushing it below. It was actually a funny scene for me, but what if the aliens got crushed? She almost kills two innocent keepers of the island because of her stupid actions but we'll just overlook the fact that she's a dick who doesn't pay attention to her surroundings.

and back to Lando Carl...errr, the Benecio Del Torro character... i thought it was stupid how he takes the Asian Chicks amulet as payment but then gives it back to her (so we the audience see he has a good side) only to then sell them out.... so no, he's not a good guy so why the fuck was he being a good guy with the amulet? Just the character writing and development seemed very poor.

While I thought Benicio was largely wasted, I actually thought his character was fairly consistent in motives and actions. He was willing to help the Resistance because he wanted money. He had no affiliation with their cause and outright pointed out to Finn that he was cynical when it came to the whole good vs. bad vibe. When they got caught, he had two choices, get put down or try to strike a deal- get paid (which was all he wanted in the first place) and survive.

You're absolutely right about the Caretakers almost getting crushed. One of those tried and true humor moments where if you stop and think for a second, it's actually pretty grave lol.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I think what's important to understand about the moment in the movie is that they were about to lose that ship anyway. That ship was fucked, there was no saving it, hence the evacuation. In that moment the decision to sacrifice it made sense only because it was about to either be destroyed or captured by the enemy.

The problem is though that we then get into the situation where the diversion hasn't worked, the First Order are attacking the escape ships yet it takes a good while to deside to turn the ship around to ram them rather than just wait to get blown up. It feels like the films plot is being driven more by audience expectations, we didn't know lightspeed ramming was possible so the characters didn't either and work it out on the fly.

Again I tend to think the biggest issue this film had is not that it wasn't enough like TFA but that it was too much like it. To actually answer the mystery's TFA created in a fashion that would satisfy most is a very different endeavour than creating those mystery's. Whats more the lighter tone of ABrams film is arguably much less suited to these kinds of events.

The basic style of cinema in both films to me is "keep the pace fast and go bigger and better!". In TFA that took the form of things like Rey being a more powerful version of Luke in the original or Star killer base being a bigger better Deathstar. In TLJ it I'd say took the form of "if one shocking twist is good then ten shocking twists must be better!". To me this is a style that keeps people reasonably entertained for one viewing and often confused as to the quality of what there watching due to the shear pace of it yet diminishes when you actually have time to think about it and/or rewatch it.

In the case of this film I did think this obscured that it did have some interesting ideas to it that didn't get realised as successfully as they could have been with a different style.

 

[Deleted member 391673]

While I thought Benicio was largely wasted, I actually thought his character was fairly consistent in motives and actions. He was willing to help the Resistance because he wanted money. He had no affiliation with their cause and outright pointed out to Finn that he was cynical when it came to the whole good vs. bad vibe. When they got caught, he had two choices, get put down or try to strike a deal- get paid (which was all he wanted in the first place) and survive.

You're absolutely right about the Caretakers almost getting crushed. One of those tried and true humor moments where if you stop and think for a second, it's actually pretty grave lol.

i think you may be right and i remembered the events wrong.

i thought he turned on them before they were even captured?

 

[ufcfan4]

i think you may be right and i remembered the events wrong.

i thought he turned on them before they were even captured?

Yeah I think he only turned once they were caught and said as much when Finn called him out on the betrayal.

Heel droid spotted BB8 standing out like a sore thumb while trying to pass as a FO droid and must have informed Phasma.

 

[TrueBias]

Yeah I think he only turned once they were caught and said as much when Finn called him out on the betrayal.

Heel droid spotted BB8 standing out like a sore thumb while trying to pass as a FO droid and must have informed Phasma.

I was pretty much checked out at this point.

A person in thr gym said that the casino couldve been a bit salvaged had they brought Lando in as the Casino host.

Billy likely was asked but read the script and told Hamill: SUCKERRRR

 

[minute bull]

I didn't deserve this.

To go out like this.

 

[EvilDDS]

I’m not caught up to know if this is been mentioned yet but in SW universe you can hit shit at light speed. It’s not teleport

Han mentioned in hope that it takes time and complex calculations before a light speed jump to keep from hitting shit and blowing yourself up.


Also on the fuel deal, small ships have needed fuel and have range. Since the beginning also. They mention the tie fighter is too far out to be by itself as they don’t have the range. And then they see the Death Star before being caught in the tractor beam.

So it’s mentioned in the very first movie that the smaller ships don’t have range and it’s emplied that larger ships have power generators, like our nuke powered naval vessels. They don’t need to refuel.

You can see tie fighters plugged in and charging in the earlier movies.


Johnson just didn’t known enough about the series and fucked this up.

Also, in Empire, when the Falcon is attached to the Star Destroyer, Han is in the cockpit trying to figure out where they can go as they don't have a hyperdrive. Finally in his computer, he sees Bespin. and then tells Leia, it's far but I think we can make it. I assumed this was a reference to fuel but could be wrong.

But if not, there are several episodes of Rebels/Clone Wars where the episodes have refuelling missions. I know that's a whole different can of worms in here, as a lot of people don't give those canon sources much thought

 

[Deleted member 391673]

Yeah I think he only turned once they were caught and said as much when Finn called him out on the betrayal.

Heel droid spotted BB8 standing out like a sore thumb while trying to pass as a FO droid and must have informed Phasma.

haha the heel droid was pretty funny. that was a good bit...
cant bb8 move in a straight line?

 

[ufcfan4]

haha the heel droid was pretty funny. that was a good bit...
cant bb8 move in a straight line?

Hahah. True. The irony is BB8 is so competent in every other facet, saving their lives multiple times and doing next level lovable droid shit yet his drunken staggering there really fucked the Resistance over.

 

[faustian]

Just saw it. I guess now I know why Mark Hamill went like 3 decades being unable to find work lol

And Laura Dern was a phenomenal addition lmfao