STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[Magooglie]

It wouldn’t even reach the center.

Dude it’s the size of a moon. The super star destroyer basically destroyed itself on the Death Stars hull.


You’re no my ramming a ship into the center of a moon

You're coming from hyperspace so you just jump through the center shattering it.

 

[YellowBanenoo]

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

 

[SmilinDesperado]

I was underwhelmed.

I just saw it and I'm not going to go into detail, although it's incredibly amusing how rustled some in this thread are about how many women held positions of power in this film. Grow a pair, boys. You sound sad and pathetic.

I will say that I was incredibly disappointed with Luke in this film. After decades hearing about him being one of the most powerful Jedi in history, it would have been incredibly sweet to see him actually in action before dying. The fake out with the force projection was particularly painful. I've always said that new films are for new characters, but this is Star Wars, and Luke. If you're going to have him in there, he should be insanely powerful. We got nothing. Worse than nothing, they teased an epic finale, and gave us a fake out.

<{cruzshake}>
I don't know why people keep framing this in this way. It isn't true.
You guys throwing around false accusations of misogyny do your own cause no favor when you stamp everything and everyone that disagrees with you as a misogynist.

There were legitimate reasons for the hate on the female characters. They weren't hated for being female.
I've heard practically no complaints about Leia, GENERAL Leia, LEADER of the resistance. No one questions her leadership capabilities or place, the only complaint about her was her sudden adeptness of the force.

People have said that Rey is a good character, and her relationship with Ren and Luke was amongst the best stuff in the movie, BUT it makes no sense how she is more powerful than EVERYBODY without a single day of jedi training. Has nothing to do with her being a girl. Finn got a lot of shit in TFA for being able to hold his own as long as he did against Ren. This is a problem of "power levels" being set just to further the current plot, rather than to make sense.

Laura Dern's character was fucking stupid. Purple haired granny is the commander? No. Purple haired anybody could fuck off. You could have put a male in her same exact role and i would have hated it. It was a terrible character and plot. But making it a woman, coupled with Leia already being in charge, Rey being the new force goddess, and Rose having to save dumb Finn's foolish little life/make him do the right thing, made this look like a furthering an agenda, instead of making a good, coherent film.

 

[Tiny]

Watch what happens with the third, now that they've pissed off roughly half of their fan base with this last "trail blazing" p.o.s

My guess? 11 day total will be roughly 200 mil for ep9 The Return Of the Mary Sue!

 

[YellowBanenoo]

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Can everyone please stop saying ram a ship into the fucking Death Star already.

This stupid comment has been done to death already. The fucking thing is the size of a moon. One ship crashing into it does nothing.

For fucks sake in return of the Jedi a super star destroyer crashed into the Death Star and it was barely a blip on the radar.


Can we simply put this asinine theory to bed already

Reminder that this happened. Size isn't everything

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Reminder that this happened. Size isn't everything

That’s not the same thing at all

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

You're coming from hyperspace so you just jump through the center shattering it.

Yet it didn’t destroy snokes ship

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

That’s not the same thing at all

Why not?

Small ship vs Big ship

I bet the people on that Star Destroyer thought the same thing. Its ok bros its only 1 tiny ship

 

[Loiosh]

<{cruzshake}>
I don't know why people keep framing this in this way. It isn't true.
You guys throwing around false accusations of misogyny do your own cause no favor when you stamp everything and everyone that disagrees with you as a misogynist.

There were legitimate reasons for the hate on the female characters. They weren't hated for being female.
I've heard practically no complaints about Leia, GENERAL Leia, LEADER of the resistance. No one questions her leadership capabilities or place, the only complaint about her was her sudden adeptness of the force.

People have said that Rey is a good character, and her relationship with Ren and Luke was amongst the best stuff in the movie, BUT it makes no sense how she is more powerful than EVERYBODY without a single day of jedi training. Has nothing to do with her being a girl. Finn got a lot of shit in TFA for being able to hold his own as long as he did against Ren. This is a problem of "power levels" being set just to further the current plot, rather than to make sense.

Laura Dern's character was fucking stupid. Purple haired granny is the commander? No. Purple haired anybody could fuck off. You could have put a male in her same exact role and i would have hated it. It was a terrible character and plot. But making it a woman, coupled with Leia already being in charge, Rey being the new force goddess, and Rose having to save dumb Finn's foolish little life/make him do the right thing, made this look like a furthering an agenda, instead of making a good, coherent film.

Whatever, man. I don't have a cause here, I don't care. I'm just calling it the way I see it. How many times have we heard people toss around "Mary Sue" when Luke was exactly as broken a character in TOS? If you don't see the attitude I'm talking about, fine. People have flat out said in this thread they aren't invested when it's a heroine as opposed to a hero.

Both Ren and Rey are crazy powerful, that's the deal. Ren took out Luke, and then wiped out most of the other young Jedi. For whatever reason, they both have a metric ton of raw power, so much power it terrifies Luke Freaking Skywalker. Rey isn't any more powerful than Ren. Laura Dern was OK, kind of a dumb character, and the hair was silly, but why call her a granny? If she was a man would you call her grandpa? Also, did you think Rose was making him do the right thing? She saved him because she loved him. I was pissed because it was a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.

Also also, why is Leia's strength with the Force sudden to you? We know she's a Skywalker. She's had decades to learn. In the expanded universe, she's pretty powerful. In the movies, Luke has said she's strong with the Force. It was a cool idea, although the execution was terrible, she looked like the wicked with of the west.

At the end of the day, it wasn't a great movie. While I really enjoyed TFA, I felt nothing at any point during TLJ, except when Luke marched out alone, and that scene ended up a lot less cool than we deserved.

I just don't see an agenda here. I see more women getting prominent roles, and I see a lot of guys bitching about it. I've spent most of this year absorbing a great deal of anti-feminist literature and while I agree the situation is getting out of control regarding equality of outcome as opposed to equality of opportunity, I don't see a problem with what's happening in film. I don't see an agenda here. Films are driven by profits, and if something isn't working it will change.

 

[YellowBanenoo]

Watch what happens with the third, now that you've pissed off roughly half your fan base with this last "trail blazing" p.o.s

Interesting to see how Disney would react to the backslash. Keep in mind that their real source of income is the sale of merchandise and who buys their merch ? People who are fans of the movies and willing to buy costume and dolls once or even twice. pissing off large portion of them can definitely hinder merch sale.

 

[Loiosh]

TFA was a much, much better movie.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

TFA was a much, much better movie.

Dont let shadow hear you say that lol

 

[Tiny]

Interesting to see how Disney would react to the backslash. Keep in mind that their real source of income is the sale of merchandise and who buys their merch ? People who are fans of the movies and willing to buy costume and dolls once or even twice. pissing off large portion of them can definitely hinder merch sale.

Honestly not sure what can be salvaged at this point. They've written themselves into a big corner here banking that we will all jump on the backs of Mary Sue after insulting our childhood heros. And that's not even mentioning that the rest of the movie was just absolute garbage.

This was probably the worst passing of the torch I've ever seen. Not only are your new hero's kind of bland and boring, but you insult the viewer's old heros in a shitty attempt to build up your new heros.

Not. Smart.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

Honestly not sure what can be salvaged at this point. They've written themselves into a big corner here banking that we will all jump on the backs of Mary Sue after insulting our childhood heros. And that's not even mentioning that the rest of the movie was just absolute garbage.

This was probably the worst passing of the torch I've ever seen. Not only are your new hero's kind of bland and boring, but you insult the viewer's old heros in a shitty attempt to build up your new heros.

Not. Smart.

I dont think its possible to finish the third movie without Kylo laying dead

He is the main villain now right? He has to die

If he doesn't die you get no payoff

 

[Loiosh]

Dont let shadow hear you say that lol

There was far too much crap going on in TLJ and I didn't care about any of it.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Alright, I've had an evening to digest and have thought long and hard about how I feel about this movie.


Plot
The story for me was a HUGE misfire. "the rebels have to outrun the empire but are low on fuel" everything based around this plot was maybe...15 minutes of good content....instead it was dragged out to 2.5 hours...it was a fucking chore to sit through. Rey-Luke-Kylo history discovery/training/force talk was the most interesting thing about this entire film, and could have carried the film if thats all there was to it...but nah...space casino's and mutinies!

Opening
I read a lot of people complaining about "bombers" and gravity in SW...but like...they had bombers in the asteroid belt in ESB so who cares? my main takeaway and gripe with the opening was....the Empire is just soooo fucking useless.

sOOOOOO much of the dialogue from the Empire commanders in the opening are just like TOO hamfisted over the top with the "WHAT IS ONE SMALL FIGHTER GOING TO DO!"

then since its Poe Dameron, he singlehandedly destroys every turret and evades a legion of Tie Fighters on his own....

Then all of the rebel bombing fleet gets destroyed in an attempt to blow up the dreadnaught. fine. dragged out. yes. but a decent enough concept for an opening, that with a bit more fine tuning could be tolerable.

Characters

This movie was hard-carried by Rey-Kylo and Luke... which is why its a fucking tragedy that most of the movie wasted time with Finn, bad actress, laura dern, and Poe Dameron and his mutiny

I laugh at all the people saying "Kylo Ren" is a whiny teenager.... like bitch Luke Skywalker for the first like 45 minutes of Star Wars did nothing but be a whiny teenager until he came up with the Chewbacca prisoner plan.

Kylo is a complex character with a lot of internal problems which this movie kind of explored, but then ended it with a pretty lame direction for him.

but yah, quit fucking whining about Kylo Rens character...its different but its good so shattt up already

I also dont get why people say Mark Hamill's a bad actor, he was fucking fine in this.

Pacing

the plot pacing had some huggeeeeee fucking problems, between jumping around from an interesting 'A' Plot of Rey with Luke, and encountering Kylo,, to the very needless Finn/Rose Casino planet visit, to the INCREDIBLY needless Poe Dameron mutiny plot (which I'll get into later regarding its meaninglessness)

The film is alternating between moody-emotion with Luke/Rey/Kylo, what is supposed to be high paced action-adventure with Finn/Rose, and then like moody political drama with Poe and the Alliance management team... its just OFF when you're getting really into the character introspective of Luke/Rey/Kylo, then you go to this prequel-esque nonsense about a casino planet that has horse-racing and force-sensitive children and what have you.

the pacing, and different styles of the plots taking place is also why I found that a lot of the humor fell flat...the joke style just felt out of place for most of the movie....ESPECIALLY the "your holding for Genral Hux" garbage...that was just soooo fucking bad


EDIT: forgot to continue my thought

Rey-Luke-Kylo

Easily the films strongest storyline, felt cohesive, and had a really good narrative with possible arcs for each character! Only problem was the arc for Kylo leaves the series essentially heading towards another Return of the Jedi type, "blow up another superweapon" movie. The Arc for Rey is still completely unfulfilled, and at the end of the movie, she's essentially the same character as she was in the first movie....only she thinks Kylo can be a good guy? And Luke well....he has an arc, although the way it ends, for me anyway, is fucking hilariously stupid and contrary to his character.


Finn-Rose

So to help the rebellion escape, they embark on a secret mission to go to a casino planet to retrieve a deus ex machina that Maz knows. With the intention of destroying the Dreadnaughts hyperspace tracker. which is a lot of logic jumps for our heroes that makes them look, really fucking stupid

1. How do they know the tracker is located on JUST the Dreadnaught?
2. How are they sure that when they take the escape pod out of the ship, they dont just get blown away by the trailing Empire?
3. When they get to Casino planet, how did they plan to enlist the codebreaker if they had nothing to barter with? were they just hoping that mentioning Maz Kanatas name that they'd be gucci?
4. Rose apparently is so well versed in the planet and knows how everyone on their is a piece of shit supporting both sides of the war......so why even bother with the plan if the person you are trying to hire, is living/located on a planet that you believe everyone to be a piece of shit traitor? something she had been stunning deserters for literally 15 minutes earlier in the film?

The entire plan is just a massive waste of time....they are predictably double-crossed and are taken to the hangar bay where then Captain Phlasma does the classic, Bond villain, long and drawn out explanation of their betrayal, instead of you know...just fucking murdering them for being rebels. I loved when she was like about to kill them and it cuts to a different part of the story, and theres like 10 minutes before we cut back to them....so its like....was she counting down from 100, and asked them for final words?

whole plotline was a chore, and the fact that it ends up being a massive waste of time and gets everyone killed is hilarious.

Poe Dameron and Laura Dern

Everything about this mutiny subplot is just cringe inducing because it makes the rebellion look like a bunch of complete retards. Why is Laura Dern acting suspicious? Instead of having a secret plan to evacuate everyone to not-Hoth,

why not just tell everyone, oh yah, we're going to use our defenseless ships cloaking devices to get everyone to not-Hoth and this ship will just be bait. ....

instead...her being secretive and NOT telling the fucking 70 remaining resistance fighters about her plan ends up with about 95% MORE casualties, than if she had just told everyone her fucking plan....

Leia gives Poe SHIT, and stuns his ass for inciting a mutiny, and then cites Laura Derns plan as justification for "following orders"

like IS EVERYONE IN THE REBEL ALLIANCE RETARDED? LAURA DERN BEING SECRETIVE ABOUT THEIR ESCAPE PLANS LITERALLY GETS THE ENTIRE REBLLION DECIMATED.....

the rest of the rebellion fits into the fucking Millenium Falcon ffs....because Laura Derns character is retarded!

Also if you knew you could turn a ship around and put it into hyperdrive towards the empire fleet to decimate it (cool visuals by the way)

why wouldn't you have TOLD the entire rebel alliance that the goal was to fly close enough to Crait so that they could cloak their defenseless ships onto the old base, then turn the ship around and annhilate the Empires fleet by going hyperdrive straight through it....

probably would've saved the lives of a couple hundred but hey....I'm no military strategist.

also remember when Han told Chewy to chart a course for Alderaan? I'm not pilot, but that sounds like charting a course, puts your ship on a predetermined path to a location....why do pilots need to "stay behind" and pilot a dying ship without gas? just chart a course until it runs out of gas, and evacuate with everyone else?


Not-Hoth

everything on the salt planet felt like an elongated waste just to see AT-AT's again... I dont understand what the fuck the pilots plan was...it wasn't clear at all...they were just gonna fly their shitty, outdated b-wings, towards the "battering ram" and throw salt at it?

or was the goal to literally have one survivor just suicide crash into it and blow it up? the fact that they pull off because they're getting picked off makes no sense to me if this was intended to be a suicide run? otherwise the entire sequence was just for neat trailer visuals.

Did the rebels KNOW Rey was on the Dreadnaught? and was going to escape on a ship, reunite with Chewy, board the Millenium Falcon, and then draw tie fighters away from the battle so they could continue their suicide run?


The last half of the movie and the problem with an overabundance of logical leaps

Pretty much the entire finale/conclusion of the movie had so much filler, and resolutions that didn't benefit the audience, instead it cause further confusion, and require the audience to fill in so many logic gaps on their own, that it makes both the Empire AND the Rebel Alliance look like complete retards.

I've already listed how everything Laura Dern did was borderline retarded, and how the rebels red-salt fight plan was truly retarded.

everything about the conclusion was so confusing and required so many leaps in logic that it was no longer comprehensible or coherent as a narrative because while you're trying to be engaged by the nice visuals, your brain is trying to process how we went from Point A to Point B

1. Rey escaping Kylo
2. stealing Snokes private shuttle
3. reuniting with Chewy on the falcon and then saving the day

This is a MASSIVE sequence of events that is kind of hilarious NOT to be included in an action-adventure film...at least ROTJ showed Luke's escape from the super-star-destroyer

The dreadnaught or whatever its called got absolutely decimated but Rey has no scratch on her except the one from her knife fight, and she escapes in a ship no problem.

Same thing with Finn, Rose and BB-8 ....

1. the room they were in looks like a nuclear missile went off, but they survive somehow
2. Phasma was 5 feet from Finn/Rose, and likely should've been killed - her re-entrance INTO the hangar requires logic to say, that she LEFT the hangar in the 5 minutes after saying, "execute them on my mark" ...which makes no fucking sense for a person who was eager as fuck to kill the traitor.
3. everything about the Finn/Rose sequence is out of a Bond movie where they dont just blow them away when they have them dead to rights...in fact, same can be said for a LOT of people in this movie...like Poe in the opening...just making everyone look stupider and stupiderer


Minor Inconsistency

Finn is now a capable pilot, despite needing one to escape last movie, and his story literally continuing right after TFA indicates he is NOT a pilot.... so how is he piloting an outdated rebel vehicle


Lukes Arc

Spoiler

So we get a very sentimental scene with Luke in the end of the movie, where he gazes upon the setting twin suns, the music cue from the original Star Wars and he's at peace with himself/the force/family? and he vaporizes into thin air.

Now I can tell that what the director is trying to do is put a stamp of closure as Luke is reminded of his home planet of Tattooine, and the swirling musical cue blasts to make us think that Luke is happy.... but theres a big problem...

a huge fucking problem with this entire "nostalgia" closure cue.

Luke didn't like Tattooine...he fucking hated it. He hated it so much he vowed to never return to this planet again when he left with Obi-Wan. When he stares at the setting suns in A New Hope, he isn't fucking happy about where he is....he's gazing out hopeful to get off, but he's sad because in all likelihood he does not see a way out. It's a moment of sadness, where our main character internally wishes for a place of belonging

Luke wasn't looking for a place to belong in the last jedi...he was fucking depressed that he had robbed Han and Leia of their son, destroyed the Jedi order due to his own perceived hubris....and died to give the rebels one more chance at killing his nephew and the empire lol. So him staring at the setting suns shouldn't be like a reminder of peace or a place of belonging for him NOW of all time....

Imagine your dying, and you feel a bit hopeful that Rey is going to keep the jedi alive, and then you see something that reminds you of your horrible upbringing, miserable teenage years, and when your aunt and uncle got burned alive by the empire that EVEN AFTER YOU DIE THIS MOMENT, WILL STILL EXIST AND CONTINUE TO EXIST UNTIL SOMEONE ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHES SOMETHING....

my first instinct at this scene, was wow, this is a great bit of closure for his character...but hte more I thought about it, it just doesn't make any sense... maybe the music cue was a perfect placement....but the setting twin suns felt very out of place

The Future

So this movie begins and ends, and is sprinkled thorughout with the message of "hope for the future"

I can't tell if thats Rian Johnson saying, guys WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, or if its just the only message they can have in this series now because realistically, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt.

I hope to hell the next movie isn't just, Kylo Ren and his new-new Empire seek to destroy the rebel alliance once and for all with their new superweapon... but honestly with the way this film ended, its hard to imagine what direction they take this series in...

TLJ felt like it should have been a Genndy Tarkovsky anime short series that explains how every character got to the REAL Episode 8. Because this movie truly felt like filler, where no character really evolves, changes, or ends up somewhere new, the Empire is still a juggernaut that cant be stopped, and the Rebel alliance is at its lowest point yet....so I dunno...

I was not hopeful for this one at all...I had incredibly low expectations...and it was still shocked by how dumb it was at times

there is stuff that I really like in this...like REALLY enjoy...better than any of the stuff in the prequels or in Rogue One,

but it was just suchhhh a convoluted mess

5/10

Great review, would read again. You echoed a lot of my issues with the film.

In regards to Ren, here's the thing with your Luke and Ren comparison, Luke is the doe eyed good guy, and Ren is supposed to be the movie's villain. I am a lot more willing to take Luke whining because he is a young, good kid that just wanted to jump into the fray and help his friends. He's not trying to be a bad ass.
Ren is a poser. He is walking around in a faux Vader mask, and trying to punk everyone, while also crying like a little bitch and getting his ass kicked by a girl with zero training.
The other problem with Ren's character is a problem with the movie in general--terrible fucking villains. Captain Phasma is a Bond villain with 3 lines of dialogue. General Hux is a retarded Looney Tunes villain. Snoke is killed before we get to know a single thing about him....and now, all we have is whiny Ren. Whiny Ren would be a LOT more easy to take if he wasn't THE bad guy. If Snoke had had a larger role, and we saw him training Ren, and gave us something to actually fear, id be less critical of Ren.
Luke had Han, Yoda, Obi, Leia, R2D2, C3PO, etc..he was part of a competent ensemble.

I agree with all you said on the casino planet.
For me, it wasn't just a waste of time, it was one of the most nonsensical things in the movie.(or really, ANY movie)
~The plan was to look for a hacker on a planet, in a large casino...and we're going to find him by looking for a marking on his shirt? What if he didn't wear that shirt that day? Had a jacket on? Didn't gamble that evening? Why write the plot in that way when there was no payoff?
~Rose and Finn get arrested for a PARKING violation.
~They are put in a cell with a guy who just happens to be able to hack into the most advanced/security heavy ship in the galaxy..even though the movie just told us only 1 other guy could do it.
~This guy had the ability to break out of jail at anytime...but for some reason he's just sleeping in his cell..
~Rose and Finn were ready to escape the planet WITHOUT the guy they came looking for..and instead, he ends up saving them...even though he doesn't need them.
~ He doesn't care about doing good. He just stole a great ship. Breaking into Snokes ship had to of had a very low chance of mission success for him to risk doing it with no guarantees. So why did he ever agree to it? And why try to show him as having some good in him (when he returns Roses necklace ) only to havd him betray them in the end.
Just so much stupid.

 

[Tiny]

I dont think its possible to finish the third movie without Kylo laying dead

He is the main villain now right? He has to die

If he doesn't die you get no payoff

Let's predict what half cocked bullshit "I did this because you didn't think I would do it" direction Rian would have come up with, had he directed the 9th episode...

- 20 years pass, Kylo And Rey are married. They are neither good nor evil because...time passed.
- Moss becomes a sith lord.
- BB8 is now the first robot jedi!
- All those force kids are never mentioned again.
- Chewy becomes a trans wookie. Installs a gender neutral washroom on the falcon. Dye's his fur purple.

BET YA DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING! ISN'T THAT GREAT WRITING?!

 

[Goonerview]

Honestly not sure what can be salvaged at this point. They've written themselves into a big corner here banking that we will all jump on the backs of Mary Sue after insulting our childhood heros. And that's not even mentioning that the rest of the movie was just absolute garbage.

This was probably the worst passing of the torch I've ever seen. Not only are your new hero's kind of bland and boring, but you insult the viewer's old heros in a shitty attempt to build up your new heros.

Not. Smart.

Is anyone else f**king tired of these "passing the torch" type storylines??

I honestly dgaf about this stuff. Just show me an original movie!