STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

[GtehMVP]

Clearly Rian and co. wanted a big moment and were willing to let the logic of the scenario and the questions it raises take a backseat in order to have it. Both showings I went to, when Laura Dern starts to turn the ship around and the FO officer tells Hux that the cruiser is preparing to jump to lightspeed, the audience excitement was audible.

I felt that way too. Of all the things we can criticize TLJ on, this is low on the spectrum. At least it was exhilarating.

 

[Guestx]

Driver seems to be getting broad praise, even among many of the film's detractors. I've seen a bunch in here saying they think Kylo Ren is one of the best aspects of the new trilogy. Hard to argue. Driver was damn good in this last one.

Like I mentioned before, I was iffy on Kylo Ren after Ep VII but I'm now sold on him after Last Jedi.

He's a cool villain and Driver does a good job bringing him to life.

He needs his mask back, though. His mask is a big part of the character.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Driver seems to be getting broad praise, even among many of the film's detractors. I've seen a bunch in here saying they think Kylo Ren is one of the best aspects of the new trilogy. Hard to argue. Driver was damn good in this last one.

I'm a Driver fan. He was great in Girls....hey, don't pull back..., but I don't think he's found a role that perfectly meshes with his angst method.

Edit; but Kylo Ren is not a very good character, imo. The daughter of Han Solo and Princess Leia goes dark... and kills his dad? Contemplates killing his mom? Darth fucking Vader wouldn't even do that. I need him to show me where Han touched him before I can buy this heel turn.

 

[Guestx]

I know I'll sound like a cynic- especially since I was one of the people who really enjoyed Anchorman 2 while many despised it- but whenever there is like a 12-20 year gap between a film and its sequels, it definitely raises a red flag in my mind. If they couldn't get the people to commit to it when there was a ton of momentum and a lot of incentive for it, it certainly seems a little problematic when stars come back together for another one when momentum and interest has waned.

There are, of course, exceptions.

What's hilarious is that Emmerich said the reason it took so long to begin production on the sequel was because he waiting for the "right script." Well the script is fucking garbage. I mean, THIS was the right script?

BTW, I thought Anchorman 2 was pretty fucking funny.

 

[vcmmafan]

Underwhelming is the definition of this movie. Im not a huge SW fan but im disappointed for other reasons.
Story is generic, there is no final epic battle and the master/apprentice storyline is boring because it isolates two important characters from the main conflict.
I like that Rian wants to change it up because TFA felt like a rehash, but his story and execution need work. Might be the most dull SW movie.
I will agree Luke was handled wrong but y'all have discussed that already.

Pretty much

 

[vcmmafan]

I was underwhelmed.

I just saw it and I'm not going to go into detail, although it's incredibly amusing how rustled some in this thread are about how many women held positions of power in this film. Grow a pair, boys. You sound sad and pathetic.

I will say that I was incredibly disappointed with Luke in this film. After decades hearing about him being one of the most powerful Jedi in history, it would have been incredibly sweet to see him actually in action before dying. The fake out with the force projection was particularly painful. I've always said that new films are for new characters, but this is Star Wars, and Luke. If you're going to have him in there, he should be insanely powerful. We got nothing. Worse than nothing, they teased an epic finale, and gave us a fake out.

Nothing wrong with that. Silence of the Lambs is one of my personal favorite movies.

 

[ufcfan4]

What's hilarious is that Emmerich said the reason it took so long to begin production on the sequel was because he waiting for the "right script." I mean, the script is fucking garbage. THIS was the right script?

BTW, I thought Anchorman 2 was pretty fucking funny.

I think it was more an issue of Emmerich is at a point in his career where trying to do a greatest hits tour is really the best he's going to be able to get. No offense to him.

Yeah I couldn't really grasp the hate for it at all. Thought it was a pretty hilarious sequel where everybody- Rudd, Koechner, Carrell, and Ferrell got his moment to shine. I liked the satire with the America, fuck yeah-ish vibe and the catering to the lowest common denominator with following car chases (passing wild speculation off as news). And even though there were a bunch of misfires, the sheer volume of jokes meant that the ones that landed greatly outweighed the ones that tanked in my view.

Great Harrison Ford cameo at the beginning as well. Kinnear was underratedly funny. Vaughan's cameo delivered. "All the shit I've done, I know I'm gonna burn in hell. Not afraid of burning here."

 

[vcmmafan]

Alright, I've had an evening to digest and have thought long and hard about how I feel about this movie.


Plot
The story for me was a HUGE misfire. "the rebels have to outrun the empire but are low on fuel" everything based around this plot was maybe...15 minutes of good content....instead it was dragged out to 2.5 hours...it was a fucking chore to sit through. Rey-Luke-Kylo history discovery/training/force talk was the most interesting thing about this entire film, and could have carried the film if thats all there was to it...but nah...space casino's and mutinies!

Opening
I read a lot of people complaining about "bombers" and gravity in SW...but like...they had bombers in the asteroid belt in ESB so who cares? my main takeaway and gripe with the opening was....the Empire is just soooo fucking useless.

sOOOOOO much of the dialogue from the Empire commanders in the opening are just like TOO hamfisted over the top with the "WHAT IS ONE SMALL FIGHTER GOING TO DO!"

then since its Poe Dameron, he singlehandedly destroys every turret and evades a legion of Tie Fighters on his own....

Then all of the rebel bombing fleet gets destroyed in an attempt to blow up the dreadnaught. fine. dragged out. yes. but a decent enough concept for an opening, that with a bit more fine tuning could be tolerable.

Characters

This movie was hard-carried by Rey-Kylo and Luke... which is why its a fucking tragedy that most of the movie wasted time with Finn, bad actress, laura dern, and Poe Dameron and his mutiny

I laugh at all the people saying "Kylo Ren" is a whiny teenager.... like bitch Luke Skywalker for the first like 45 minutes of Star Wars did nothing but be a whiny teenager until he came up with the Chewbacca prisoner plan.

Kylo is a complex character with a lot of internal problems which this movie kind of explored, but then ended it with a pretty lame direction for him.

but yah, quit fucking whining about Kylo Rens character...its different but its good so shattt up already

I also dont get why people say Mark Hamill's a bad actor, he was fucking fine in this.

Pacing

the plot pacing had some huggeeeeee fucking problems, between jumping around from an interesting 'A' Plot of Rey with Luke, and encountering Kylo,, to the very needless Finn/Rose Casino planet visit, to the INCREDIBLY needless Poe Dameron mutiny plot (which I'll get into later regarding its meaninglessness)

The film is alternating between moody-emotion with Luke/Rey/Kylo, what is supposed to be high paced action-adventure with Finn/Rose, and then like moody political drama with Poe and the Alliance management team... its just OFF when you're getting really into the character introspective of Luke/Rey/Kylo, then you go to this prequel-esque nonsense about a casino planet that has horse-racing and force-sensitive children and what have you.

the pacing, and different styles of the plots taking place is also why I found that a lot of the humor fell flat...the joke style just felt out of place for most of the movie....ESPECIALLY the "your holding for Genral Hux" garbage...that was just soooo fucking bad


EDIT: forgot to continue my thought

Rey-Luke-Kylo

Easily the films strongest storyline, felt cohesive, and had a really good narrative with possible arcs for each character! Only problem was the arc for Kylo leaves the series essentially heading towards another Return of the Jedi type, "blow up another superweapon" movie. The Arc for Rey is still completely unfulfilled, and at the end of the movie, she's essentially the same character as she was in the first movie....only she thinks Kylo can be a good guy? And Luke well....he has an arc, although the way it ends, for me anyway, is fucking hilariously stupid and contrary to his character.


Finn-Rose

So to help the rebellion escape, they embark on a secret mission to go to a casino planet to retrieve a deus ex machina that Maz knows. With the intention of destroying the Dreadnaughts hyperspace tracker. which is a lot of logic jumps for our heroes that makes them look, really fucking stupid

1. How do they know the tracker is located on JUST the Dreadnaught?
2. How are they sure that when they take the escape pod out of the ship, they dont just get blown away by the trailing Empire?
3. When they get to Casino planet, how did they plan to enlist the codebreaker if they had nothing to barter with? were they just hoping that mentioning Maz Kanatas name that they'd be gucci?
4. Rose apparently is so well versed in the planet and knows how everyone on their is a piece of shit supporting both sides of the war......so why even bother with the plan if the person you are trying to hire, is living/located on a planet that you believe everyone to be a piece of shit traitor? something she had been stunning deserters for literally 15 minutes earlier in the film?

The entire plan is just a massive waste of time....they are predictably double-crossed and are taken to the hangar bay where then Captain Phlasma does the classic, Bond villain, long and drawn out explanation of their betrayal, instead of you know...just fucking murdering them for being rebels. I loved when she was like about to kill them and it cuts to a different part of the story, and theres like 10 minutes before we cut back to them....so its like....was she counting down from 100, and asked them for final words?

whole plotline was a chore, and the fact that it ends up being a massive waste of time and gets everyone killed is hilarious.

Poe Dameron and Laura Dern

Everything about this mutiny subplot is just cringe inducing because it makes the rebellion look like a bunch of complete retards. Why is Laura Dern acting suspicious? Instead of having a secret plan to evacuate everyone to not-Hoth,

why not just tell everyone, oh yah, we're going to use our defenseless ships cloaking devices to get everyone to not-Hoth and this ship will just be bait. ....

instead...her being secretive and NOT telling the fucking 70 remaining resistance fighters about her plan ends up with about 95% MORE casualties, than if she had just told everyone her fucking plan....

Leia gives Poe SHIT, and stuns his ass for inciting a mutiny, and then cites Laura Derns plan as justification for "following orders"

like IS EVERYONE IN THE REBEL ALLIANCE RETARDED? LAURA DERN BEING SECRETIVE ABOUT THEIR ESCAPE PLANS LITERALLY GETS THE ENTIRE REBLLION DECIMATED.....

the rest of the rebellion fits into the fucking Millenium Falcon ffs....because Laura Derns character is retarded!

Also if you knew you could turn a ship around and put it into hyperdrive towards the empire fleet to decimate it (cool visuals by the way)

why wouldn't you have TOLD the entire rebel alliance that the goal was to fly close enough to Crait so that they could cloak their defenseless ships onto the old base, then turn the ship around and annhilate the Empires fleet by going hyperdrive straight through it....

probably would've saved the lives of a couple hundred but hey....I'm no military strategist.

also remember when Han told Chewy to chart a course for Alderaan? I'm not pilot, but that sounds like charting a course, puts your ship on a predetermined path to a location....why do pilots need to "stay behind" and pilot a dying ship without gas? just chart a course until it runs out of gas, and evacuate with everyone else?


Not-Hoth

everything on the salt planet felt like an elongated waste just to see AT-AT's again... I dont understand what the fuck the pilots plan was...it wasn't clear at all...they were just gonna fly their shitty, outdated b-wings, towards the "battering ram" and throw salt at it?

or was the goal to literally have one survivor just suicide crash into it and blow it up? the fact that they pull off because they're getting picked off makes no sense to me if this was intended to be a suicide run? otherwise the entire sequence was just for neat trailer visuals.

Did the rebels KNOW Rey was on the Dreadnaught? and was going to escape on a ship, reunite with Chewy, board the Millenium Falcon, and then draw tie fighters away from the battle so they could continue their suicide run?


The last half of the movie and the problem with an overabundance of logical leaps

Pretty much the entire finale/conclusion of the movie had so much filler, and resolutions that didn't benefit the audience, instead it cause further confusion, and require the audience to fill in so many logic gaps on their own, that it makes both the Empire AND the Rebel Alliance look like complete retards.

I've already listed how everything Laura Dern did was borderline retarded, and how the rebels red-salt fight plan was truly retarded.

everything about the conclusion was so confusing and required so many leaps in logic that it was no longer comprehensible or coherent as a narrative because while you're trying to be engaged by the nice visuals, your brain is trying to process how we went from Point A to Point B

1. Rey escaping Kylo
2. stealing Snokes private shuttle
3. reuniting with Chewy on the falcon and then saving the day

This is a MASSIVE sequence of events that is kind of hilarious NOT to be included in an action-adventure film...at least ROTJ showed Luke's escape from the super-star-destroyer

The dreadnaught or whatever its called got absolutely decimated but Rey has no scratch on her except the one from her knife fight, and she escapes in a ship no problem.

Same thing with Finn, Rose and BB-8 ....

1. the room they were in looks like a nuclear missile went off, but they survive somehow
2. Phasma was 5 feet from Finn/Rose, and likely should've been killed - her re-entrance INTO the hangar requires logic to say, that she LEFT the hangar in the 5 minutes after saying, "execute them on my mark" ...which makes no fucking sense for a person who was eager as fuck to kill the traitor.
3. everything about the Finn/Rose sequence is out of a Bond movie where they dont just blow them away when they have them dead to rights...in fact, same can be said for a LOT of people in this movie...like Poe in the opening...just making everyone look stupider and stupiderer


Minor Inconsistency

Finn is now a capable pilot, despite needing one to escape last movie, and his story literally continuing right after TFA indicates he is NOT a pilot.... so how is he piloting an outdated rebel vehicle


Lukes Arc

Spoiler

So we get a very sentimental scene with Luke in the end of the movie, where he gazes upon the setting twin suns, the music cue from the original Star Wars and he's at peace with himself/the force/family? and he vaporizes into thin air.

Now I can tell that what the director is trying to do is put a stamp of closure as Luke is reminded of his home planet of Tattooine, and the swirling musical cue blasts to make us think that Luke is happy.... but theres a big problem...

a huge fucking problem with this entire "nostalgia" closure cue.

Luke didn't like Tattooine...he fucking hated it. He hated it so much he vowed to never return to this planet again when he left with Obi-Wan. When he stares at the setting suns in A New Hope, he isn't fucking happy about where he is....he's gazing out hopeful to get off, but he's sad because in all likelihood he does not see a way out. It's a moment of sadness, where our main character internally wishes for a place of belonging

Luke wasn't looking for a place to belong in the last jedi...he was fucking depressed that he had robbed Han and Leia of their son, destroyed the Jedi order due to his own perceived hubris....and died to give the rebels one more chance at killing his nephew and the empire lol. So him staring at the setting suns shouldn't be like a reminder of peace or a place of belonging for him NOW of all time....

Imagine your dying, and you feel a bit hopeful that Rey is going to keep the jedi alive, and then you see something that reminds you of your horrible upbringing, miserable teenage years, and when your aunt and uncle got burned alive by the empire that EVEN AFTER YOU DIE THIS MOMENT, WILL STILL EXIST AND CONTINUE TO EXIST UNTIL SOMEONE ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHES SOMETHING....

my first instinct at this scene, was wow, this is a great bit of closure for his character...but hte more I thought about it, it just doesn't make any sense... maybe the music cue was a perfect placement....but the setting twin suns felt very out of place

The Future

So this movie begins and ends, and is sprinkled thorughout with the message of "hope for the future"

I can't tell if thats Rian Johnson saying, guys WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, or if its just the only message they can have in this series now because realistically, Star Wars is creatively bankrupt.

I hope to hell the next movie isn't just, Kylo Ren and his new-new Empire seek to destroy the rebel alliance once and for all with their new superweapon... but honestly with the way this film ended, its hard to imagine what direction they take this series in...

TLJ felt like it should have been a Genndy Tarkovsky anime short series that explains how every character got to the REAL Episode 8. Because this movie truly felt like filler, where no character really evolves, changes, or ends up somewhere new, the Empire is still a juggernaut that cant be stopped, and the Rebel alliance is at its lowest point yet....so I dunno...

I was not hopeful for this one at all...I had incredibly low expectations...and it was still shocked by how dumb it was at times

there is stuff that I really like in this...like REALLY enjoy...better than any of the stuff in the prequels or in Rogue One,

but it was just suchhhh a convoluted mess

5/10

How did your audience receive it?

 

[ufcfan4]

I thought that it was an awesome display of jedi power - to jedi mind trick hundreds of people to see and feel your presence lightyears away from where you were sitting indian style -- mind blown. I did hate that it wound up killing him. There was no foreshadowing for that and it was an obvious copout to dump Hammill (which he probably welcomed based on the videos of him shitting on the movie). It was also anticlimactic in that this should have lead to Luke getting picked up and building the Rebellion around him. I'm still a annoyed by that, but its tempered by the fact that there isn't anybody worth coming back to defeat. Unless they introduce another ancient cgi sith lord out of nowhere...

Agree with you. And in the context of the narrative, it was pretty smart. Luke makes that point to Rey early on- "what'd you think, I was going to stand with a laser sword against the entire First Order?" When you think about it, without Luke's action, the entire Resistance gets snuffed out there and then. Had he physically shown up, what could he have done? As powerful as he is, maybe he could have taken out some FO fighters but he would have gotten murked bad via the weaponry and resources they had. By doing what he did, he actually bought the Resistance time, which he likely could not have done had he actually shown up to fight. Kylo was not looking for a one-on-one matchup as we saw when he ordered every gun to fire at Skywalker.

 

[Loiosh]

I thought that it was an awesome display of jedi power - to jedi mind trick hundreds of people to see and feel your presence lightyears away from where you were sitting indian style -- mind blown. I did hate that it wound up killing him. There was no foreshadowing for that and it was an obvious copout to dump Hammill (which he probably welcomed based on the videos of him shitting on the movie). It was also anticlimactic in that this should have lead to Luke getting picked up and building the Rebellion around him. I'm still a annoyed by that, but its tempered by the fact that there isn't anybody worth coming back to defeat. Unless they introduce another ancient cgi sith lord out of nowhere...

It was an impressive display of power, and they actually foreshadow what it would do to you (Snoke said the exchanges between Ren and Rey would have burned their minds). I did say a hushed "holy shit" in the cinema. But, you know, I would have liked something more. He's Luke Freaking Skywalker. You're absolutely right that it was impressive, but him walking out alone got me pumped because I've seen ALL the Star Wars things, and I know what kind of things a super powerful Jedi can do. Holographic projection didn't get there for me, even if it was pretty cool. If it hadn't killed him, it would have been way cooler.

Not going to lie. Part of me thinks this trilogy should have been about Luke. The only problem with that is there's a pretty good reason why Hamill's career never took off.

I too would like to know where the hell Snoke came from.

 

[heavyarms21]

Like I mentioned before, I was iffy on Kylo Ren after Ep VII but I'm now sold on him after Last Jedi.

He's a cool villain and Driver does a good job bringing him to life.

He needs his mask back, though. His mask is a big part of the character.

I'm good with him not having the mask. His voice through the mask jist comes off as bland. Without the Mask despite being a pretty big guy his young face catches you off guard , because you wouldn't assume him to be of the Darkside. I think Driver and Ridley sere the best part of the movie.
Too bad everything else was dreadful to me.

 

[Loiosh]

I'm a Driver fan. He was great in Girls....hey, don't pull back..., but I don't think he's found a role that perfectly meshes with his angst method.

Edit; but Kylo Ren is not a very good character, imo. The daughter of Han Solo and Princess Leia goes dark... and kills his dad? Contemplates killing his mom? Darth fucking Vader wouldn't even do that. I need him to show me where Han touched him before I can buy this heel turn.

I loved him in Girls. The scene where Hannah has the total breakdown and he runs barefoot across the city to get to her was incredible. His brand of mania is inspiring.

Don't really get Kylo either. We walked into his story halfway through it and are watching it from a distance. His motives make no sense to me.

 

[Guestx]

I'm good with him not having the mask. His voice through the mask jist comes off as bland. Without the Mask despite being a pretty big guy his young face catches you off guard , because you wouldn't assume him to be of the Darkside. I think Driver and Ridley sere the best part of the movie.
Too bad everything else was dreadful to me.

I don't think he should wear the mask all the time, but I do think he should put it on during key moments.

Like, if Kylo Ren is striding into battle then I want him to have his battle mask on!

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Can everyone please stop saying ram a ship into the fucking Death Star already.

This stupid comment has been done to death already. The fucking thing is the size of a moon. One ship crashing into it does nothing.

For fucks sake in return of the Jedi a super star destroyer crashed into the Death Star and it was barely a blip on the radar.


Can we simply put this asinine theory to bed already

 

[Magooglie]

Can everyone please stop saying ram a ship into the fucking Death Star already.

This stupid comment has been done to death already. The fucking thing is the size of a moon. One ship crashing into it does nothing.

For fucks sake in return of the Jedi a super star destroyer crashed into the Death Star and it was barely a blip on the radar.


Can we simply put this asinine theory to bed already

But what about hyperspace ramming the death star? Since that's a thing now.

 

[Guestx]

I think it was more an issue of Emmerich is at a point in his career where trying to do a greatest hits tour is really the best he's going to be able to get. No offense to him.

His best days do seem to be behind him.

Stargate was good, and Independence Day and The Patriot were both excellent. Since then, it's been downhill, though I did enjoy The Day After Tomorrow well enough and, even though it's gotten a lot of hate, I liked White House Down fairly well also.

Hopefully he still has a few more cool movies to give us before he calls it a career.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

But what about hyperspace ramming the death star? Since that's a thing now.

Well since it didn’t destroy snokes ship why would one cruiser destroy the Death Star, which is like a million times the size

 

[Magooglie]

Well since it didn’t destroy snokes ship why would one cruiser destroy the Death Star, which is like a million times the size

You do it right to the center since that's the Death Star's weak point.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Driver seems to be getting broad praise, even among many of the film's detractors. I've seen a bunch in here saying they think Kylo Ren is one of the best aspects of the new trilogy. Hard to argue. Driver was damn good in this last one.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

You do it right to the center since that's the Death Star's weak point.

It wouldn’t even reach the center.

Dude it’s the size of a moon. The super star destroyer basically destroyed itself on the Death Stars hull.


You’re no my ramming a ship into the center of a moon