Star Wars Megathread

Except the reaction didn't come from the 'alt right' - the negative reaction from long time fans, who are likely both left and right leaning and was significant in such that people got fed up with 2.5 bad sequels. sure there were alt right or racists or whatever who had issues with certain characters, but i don't think that proves anything was politically significant.

I think you can see the intention though was that any criticism could be characterized as born of bigotry, just how swifty we saw this with The Last Jedi were the "toxic fanbase" line was being brought up in the media within a day of release I think was a real giveaway.

Again I think the "progressive" aspects of the new films to me seem like they were really aimed at pissing off conservatives rather than actually being that progressive, you look a bit more closely and Finn is a cliched comedy sidekick who doesnt have a romance with the white lead, Rose is a cliched geek with a heart of gold, the Holdo plot is basically "obey your superiors no matter what" if they have some kind of tokenistic platform.

The big mistake I think KK and co made was believing the attraction to Starwars was mostly a quite casual one, people who remembered a few bits of nostalgia but were mostly just looking to turn their brain off for 2 hours. There is a good deal of that but its not something which lasts more than 1-2 films and the real staying potential of Starwars is that quite a large amount of the population under say age 50ish do really love the originals.

It's a vague and subtle point. You know in FIGHT CLUB how Tyler says the things you own end up owning you? When we have strong regard for the entertainment we use to distract ourselves from the suffering of dying a slow death, is it really worth getting upset over? Why focus on how much something that is meant to entertain us -- why focus on how much it now disappoints?

The point is the best way to move discussion away is by not engaging in the discussion. Because, as soon as you engage -- your words are politically misconstrued to fit someone else's narrative.

As an example: I know what I'm doing in this thread whereas you have a firmly different held perspective of what I am doing. You have said as much; whether it's a joke or not is beside the point. The point is, optically, no matter what I say contrary to your assertion it is likely you will ignore new data in favor of bias.

Another example is recapitulating KK's push toward inclusivity as a rejection of the traditional fanbase.

Third example: THE LAST JEDI is bad vs THE LAST JEDI is good.

What really boggles my mind is this complex house of cards (which is pretending that STAR WARS means something to gender politics as a whole) all sits on top of yet another layer. That is: politicization is just marketing meant to perpetuate the commodification of STAR WARS.

"Marvel vs DC?" "Who will be the best James Bond?" "Reboots or not??" The wallet loses.

You do realise that Tyler Durden himself wasnt ultimately shown as fountain of wisdom but rather a persona born out of self absorbed arrogance passing itself off as wisdom?
 
I think you can see the intention though was that any criticism could be characterized as born of bigotry, just how swifty we saw this with The Last Jedi were the "toxic fanbase" line was being brought up in the media within a day of release I think was a real giveaway.

Or they borrowed a PR trick from politics, and try to paint all criticism of their products as evidence of 'racism, sexism, bigotry, or all of the above' as a way to avoid addressing any criticism.

And they do that trick by finding a few comments from assholes online and frame everyone who doesn't love their products as of that ilk.

They even blamed the backlash for The Last Jedi on Russian bots, after an entire year of the media insinuating Trump won the 2016 election with the help of Russian bots.

https://reclaimthenet.org/last-jedi-russian-bots-myth/

Again I think the "progressive" aspects of the new films to me seem like they were really aimed at pissing off conservatives rather than actually being that progressive, you look a bit more closely and Finn is a cliched comedy sidekick who doesnt have a romance with the white lead, Rose is a cliched geek with a heart of gold, the Holdo plot is basically "obey your superiors no matter what" if they have some kind of tokenistic platform.

You're really reaching here.

Condescendingly obvious progressive agendas piss everyone off, with the exception of progressives because they like their media, and the media everyone else watches, to be soaked in propaganda.

It pissed the fanbase off so badly they didn't bother going to see Solo, released 6 months later, leading it to be the FIRST Star Wars movie to ever LOSE money.

It caused LucasFilm to adjust their plans to have a new Star Wars movie released every year.

The big mistake I think KK and co made was believing the attraction to Starwars was mostly a quite casual one, people who remembered a few bits of nostalgia but were mostly just looking to turn their brain off for 2 hours. There is a good deal of that but its not something which lasts more than 1-2 films and the real staying potential of Starwars is that quite a large amount of the population under say age 50ish do really love the originals.

So Disney bought the world's most popular SciFi franchise for 4 billion dollars and the woman they put in charge had no idea how passionate the fanbase was?

That's not suprising whatsoever because that woman is Kathleen Kennedy.
 
Or they borrowed a PR trick from politics, and try to paint all criticism of their products as evidence of 'racism, sexism, bigotry, or all of the above' as a way to avoid addressing any criticism.

And they do that trick by finding a few comments from assholes online and frame everyone who doesn't love their products as of that ilk.

They even blamed the backlash for The Last Jedi on Russian bots, after an entire year of the media insinuating Trump won the 2016 election with the help of Russian bots.

https://reclaimthenet.org/last-jedi-russian-bots-myth/

Yes I don't disagree with this, I think Hollywood very much picked up on the same kind of PR that a lot of the democrate establishment and attendant media had been running with, I would imagine there is a good deal of cross pollination going on there with people working in the the news media.

You could argue as well it wasn't only right leaning criticism either, the whole Holdo sub plot to me felt very much like the "Bernie bro" angle of attack on Sanders support.

You're really reaching here.

Condescendingly obvious progressive agendas piss everyone off, with the exception of progressives because they like their media, and the media everyone else watches, to be soaked in propaganda.

It pissed the fanbase off so badly they didn't bother going to see Solo, released 6 months later, leading it to be the FIRST Star Wars movie to ever LOSE money.

It caused LucasFilm to adjust their plans to have a new Star Wars movie released every year.

I don't think I am reaching really, I don't think these films were made with the intention of being especially progressive or changing anyones mind, they were made with the attension of being marketed as such and again I think certain elements seemed to be clearly baiting alt rightish people.

As I pointed out a lot of elements to the films are actually quite backward, you have a black co lead but he's a bumbling fool ex janitor and ends up in the white female leads friend zone. When someone like JJ "Kirk oogling Carol Marcus in her underwear for no reason at all" Abrams involved thats really not supprising, he's about as far from a politically relevant film maker as you could hope to find.

The whole situation with Kelly Tran as well I found pretty distasteful from their end, that character seemed to be created specifically to rattle the cages of alt right "alphas" so it wasnt exactly supprising when she got a load of online abuse. The equivalent of wrapping someone in bacon and pushing them into a lion enclosure then throwing your arms up in the air when there eaten alive. When they couldnt get cheap PR out of her anymore of course and felt it might hurt business the character was dumped, again no real political principles there just marketing.

So Disney bought the world's most popular SciFi franchise for 4 billion dollars and the woman they put in charge had no idea how passionate the fanbase was?

That's not suprising whatsoever because that woman is Kathleen Kennedy.

To be fair I can see how the error was made though, especially if you look back to the climate of the early 2010's when Abrams was hired.

There was I think a strong "anti geek" movement around this time, basically pushing the idea that what had gone wrong with franchises like Star Trek and Starwars was that they'd taken themselves too seriously and pandered to the fanbase too much. I mean with Trek I think you can certainly argue there was quite a lot of truth to this, especially the TNG films did feel like they were failing back to pandering to the fanbase as an easy alternative to making good cinema.

The bigger problem was I'd say though that the alternative to this became the idea that all you needed to do in order to make these franchises a sucess was to keep to some simple standards of blockbuster entertainment. Youtube was full of videos around this era from people thinking that the most simplistic screewritting 101 analysis was the key to great blockbuster cinema.

Abrams Trek film I think became the poster boy for that approach so again I'm not at all supprised Disney/Lucasfilm turned to him and basically asked him to do the same for Starwars. What they failed to see though IMHO that was already there were rumblings of discontent from the Trek franchise, that Abrams style was really more of a one shot deal that could exploit pent up demand and nostalgia for one film but not sustain a franchise. Meanwhile you saw Marvel starting to take itself increasingly seriously with films like The Winter Solider to great sucess.

Someone like Kennedy who has most likely always been focused on the business side not seeing this isnt that supprising IMHO. I mean look at the incompetence at Sony, WB and Fox when non creative execs are running things meanwhile franchise fan Feige inherits the earth.
 
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Lol @ progressives wanting "propaganda", that's rich coming from a conservative. The entire "western" genre is propaganda, designed to sell guns and cigarettes to idiot conservatives who think the history of their country looked something like a western.
 
You could argue as well it wasn't only right leaning criticism either, the whole Holdo sub plot to me felt very much like the "Bernie bro" angle of attack on Sanders support.

Yeah, I heard many feminists were put off of by the Haldo character. They wanted strong female characters, not pretentious elitist bitches.

As for the 'Bernie Bro' angle, yeah, that's what I meant by 'condescendingly obvious progressive agendas.'

I don't think I am reaching really, I don't think these films were made with the intention of being especially progressive or changing anyones mind, they were made with the attension of being marketed as such and again I think certain elements seemed to be clearly baiting alt rightish people.

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Oh, and that's so much better.

So they had an option of making an awesome Star Wars movie that nearly everyone would love.... or... making a forgetable shit film that triggers the idealogical opponents.

Would have thought that since Disney was a giant corporation, their main priority would be to make the most money possible. If your theory is true, then they royally fucked up their profits for Ep8 TLJ, because it had a HUGE drop in the boxoffice after the first weekend... even more than they estimated... then Solo flopped without even making back its production budget much less its marketing budget, and finally TROS... the finale of the trilogy and entire Skywalker saga came in way under their boxoffice expectations.

Triggering conservatives by making the most loved SciFi series progressive propaganda may have made their idealogical opponents mad, but it really hit them in the pocket books.

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The whole situation with Kelly Tran as well I found pretty distasteful from their end, that character seemed to be created specifically to rattle the cages of alt right "alphas" so it wasnt exactly supprising when she got a load of online abuse. The equivalent of wrapping someone in bacon and pushing them into a lion enclosure then throwing your arms up in the air when there eaten alive. When they couldnt get cheap PR out of her anymore of course and felt it might hurt business the character was dumped, again no real political principles there just marketing.

There's no evidence she left Instagram because of bullying. She closed her accounts with no explanation and idiots on the internet said "Racist Star Wars Trolls Bullied Her Off The Internet!"

Yeah? Where are the receipts?

When did KMT ever say "I was bullied off the internet?"

To be fair I can see how the error was made though, especially if you look back to the climate of the early 2010's when Abrams was hired.

There was I think a strong "anti geek" movement around this time, basically pushing the idea that what had gone wrong with franchises like Star Trek and Starwars was that they'd taken themselves too seriously and pandered to the fanbase too much. I mean with Trek I think you can certainly argue there was quite a lot of truth to this, especially the TNG films did feel like they were failing back to pandering to the fanbase as an easy alternative to making good cinema.

The bigger problem was I'd say though that the alternative to this became the idea that all you needed to do in order to make these franchises a sucess was to keep to some simple standards of blockbuster entertainment. Youtube was full of videos around this era from people thinking that the most simplistic screewritting 101 analysis was the key to great blockbuster cinema.

Abrams Trek film I think became the poster boy for that approach so again I'm not at all supprised Disney/Lucasfilm turned to him and basically asked him to do the same for Starwars. What they failed to see though IMHO that was already there were rumblings of discontent from the Trek franchise, that Abrams style was really more of a one shot deal that could exploit pent up demand and nostalgia for one film but not sustain a franchise. Meanwhile you saw Marvel starting to take its setting increasingly seriously with films like The Winter Solider top great sucess.

Someone like Kennedy who has most likely always been focused on the business side not seeing this isnt that supprising IMHO. I mean look at the incompetence at Sony, WB and Fox when non creative execs are running things meanwhile franchise fan Feige inherits the earth.

No, the blame that legitimately goes to JJ Abrams is miniscule compared to Kathleen Kennedy.

He was just a co-writer and director, and he did a damn good job directing. I've never had any problems with JJ as a director and Ep7 is the best DIRECTED Star Wars movie, ever.

Yeah, I said it.

99% of the rest of the blame goes to Kathleen 'The Force is Female. We're going to honor the characters you created, George' Kennedy. Period.
 
<LikeReally5>

Oh, and that's so much better.

I'm not arguing that its "better", just that its closer to the truth. From my perspective as someone who supports genuinely progressive politics I think its actually a lot worse, these films do not help the causes they claim to support but rather damage their credibility in order to make money.

No, the blame that legitimately goes to JJ Abrams is miniscule compared to Kathleen Kennedy.

He was just a co-writer and director, and he did a damn good job directing. I've never had any problems with JJ as a director and Ep7 is the best DIRECTED Star Wars movie, ever.

Yeah, I said it.

99% of the rest of the blame goes to Kathleen 'The Force is Female. We're going to honor the characters you created, George' Kennedy. Period.

I do think the decision to hire Abrams is the single biggest mistake made in Starwars under Disney.

No I don't think he did a "dam good job" at directing, I think his films are a fucking mess of confused underdeveloped plots full of bad comedy and cheap nostalgia which don't respect the originals at all. The Force Awakens throws pretty much every achievement of the OT in the trash, resets everything including Han's character so Abrams can do his cheap nostalgia formula.

A lot of the worst aspects of The Last Jedi follow his style as well, the whole Finn/Rose/Poe plot is full of terrible cartoonish zinger "comedy" and mawkish unearned drama. Even without the way it treated Luke it would not have been anything close to a good film for me but it did at least have a few moments with Rey/Kylo that felt worthwhile before dumping that plot as well.

I wouldnt want Abrams anywhere close to any franchise I care about, the mans a hack IMHO and everything her touches turns to shite recently were as at least Kennedy can be pushed into the background dealing with big numbers(which honestly was what he career was pre Disney) leaving the creatuive decisions to people like Favreau and Folini, the story group have all been fired havent they?
 
I'm not arguing that its "better", just that its closer to the truth. From my perspective as someone who supports genuinely progressive politics I think its actually a lot worse, these films do not help the causes they claim to support but rather damage their credibility in order to make money

That would be an interesting theory, but that means Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, and Rian Johnson all purposely made their movies bad to piss off conservatives at the expense of their own repuations and long-term profits for the franchise.

Its just not believable they are that competently incompetent.

I do think the decision to hire Abrams is the single biggest mistake made in Starwars under Disney.

No, the first mistake Bob Igur made was hiring Kathleen Kennedy.

Call me weird, but JJ Abrams directorial talents is one of the few good things about Ep7 & Ep9. His scripts... well... that's another subject, and even then its not widely known what aspects of the scripts are JJ Abrams ideas, his co-writers, or orders from Kathleen Kennedy.

A lot of the worst aspects of The Last Jedi follow his style as well, the whole Finn/Rose/Poe plot is full of terrible cartoonish zinger "comedy" and mawkish unearned drama. Even without the way it treated Luke it would not have been anything close to a good film for me but it did at least have a few moments with Rey/Kylo that felt worthwhile before dumping that plot as well.

Don't get me started on TLJ. I'd be here typing all day about that shit film.

I wouldnt want Abrams anywhere close to any franchise I care about, the mans a hack IMHO and everything her touches turns to shite recently were as at least Kennedy can be pushed into the background dealing with big numbers(which honestly was what he career was pre Disney) leaving the creatuive decisions to people like Favreau and Folini, the story group have all been fired havent they?

Basically Kathleen Kennedy should be removed as LucasFilm President with Favreau and Folini replacing her.

And yeah, get rid of that shit writing group as well.
 
Lol @ progressives wanting "propaganda", that's rich coming from a conservative. The entire "western" genre is propaganda, designed to sell guns and cigarettes to idiot conservatives who think the history of their country looked something like a western.
whattya got against guns, son?
 
And your opinion is valued.

From what I hear, the EU books between Ep6 and New Jedi Order series was a great continuation of the OT, but it felt like they were afraid to really separate from the kid-friendly PG-rated formula of the movies.

In New Jedi Order, it gets pretty damn dark... killing off numerous fan-favorite characters, including one from the the movies (no spoilers).

Regardless of the series's flaws, which there obviously would be in a 19-book series with 13 authors, its when Star Wars grew up, which it certainly needed to happen as fans grew older and wanted a more mature Star Wars.

Oh I loved the dark more mature setting, no question. Just felt they could've built the Vong better with a little slower burn, rather than coming out so hard at first (killing you know who)

Again not bashing the series, I would've have just set the table for the invasion with a few novels beforehand, and kept the NJO as is.
 
Nothing, really. But conservative propaganda is the reason the film industry exists as it does in the USA. Top Gun anyone?
1980s hollywood owns this woke shit we get now.

We only have a few shows to escape and watch decent stories without sjw narratives bleeding through the forefront
 
If it were bullshit then we wouldn't constantly need to cash in on 80s nostalgia and would instead be enjoying original ips

That’s bullshit too. Cashing in on nostalgia has been going on since the movie Grease, if not sooner. Hell all through the 1960s they were re-fighting WW2, and there are lots of new IPs out there. Just because you don’t like them doesn’t mean there’s some conspiracy going on. There’s just more stuff now.
 

Wonder if a Facehugger impregnated a Jedi would the Xeno would be Force Sensitive?

I mean, why wouldn't it? Man. That's a great idea. You came up with a better plotline right here than they did in three movies. Something like that could really develop, just make it a different kind of insectoid.

Hard to rip off the Xenomorphs without them being obvious Xeno ripoffs. Probably one of my favorite alien races of any genre, definitely top non-sentient.

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