Crime Springfield, Ohio: migrant workers from Haiti exploited

[Jack V Savage]

I strongly disagree, like I said you're extrapolating off one or two data points from the article despite the fact that there's so much you don't know about the situation. I've never said that there's definitely not something wrong going on here but Asra Nomani did nowhere near enough to establish that in her article. One Haitian making $12.50 is not enough evidence.

I'm skeptical because markets tend to fix things like that. Remember, we're not talking about unauthorized immigrants. If they're getting underpaid, other businesses would have incentive to poach them. There might be a monopsony in a small town, but that would affect all workers.

 

[Koro_11]

It's a town of 60 thousand people, they brought in 12-15 thousand immigrants to stem the drastic outflow of people from the city and the people they brought in were entirely legal. Tired of being wrong yet? Start a new fucking thread for that shit you believe, why don't you?

Ok... but, 15,000 immigrants all from the same place?

Also, what am I wrong about? The numbers? I looked up the current population of Springfield, Ohio and it says 58,000. I looked up how many Haitian migrants were brought in and it said 15,000... these people were brought in back in 2017 so I'm guessing the current population includes the migrants, therefore 7 years ago it was probably something like 40,000.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's a town of 60 thousand people, they brought in 12-15 thousand immigrants to stem the drastic outflow of people from the city and to prevent the inevitable death of the town, and the people they brought in were entirely legal. Tired of being wrong yet? Start a new fucking thread for that bullshit you believe, why don't you?

It's a total immigrant population of 12=15k in the entire county. And I don’t think that they brought as much as they chose to go there (incentivized I'm sure).

 

[Andy Capp]

It's a total immigrant population of 12=15k in the entire country. And I don’t think that they brought as much as they chose to go there (incentivized I'm sure).

Beggin' yer pardon; thanks for the correction. Strengthens my case against that clown.

Ok... but, 15,000 immigrants all from the same place?

Also, what am I wrong about? The numbers? I looked up the current population of Springfield, Ohio and it says 58,000. I looked up how many Haitian migrants were brought in and it said 15,000... these people were brought in back in 2017 so I'm guessing the current population includes the migrants, therefore 7 years ago it was probably something like 40,000.

You're wrong about whether the positives outweigh the negatives of a town going bankrupt in a time of high economic activity nationwide.

 

[Koro_11]

You're wrong about whether the positives outweigh the negatives of a town going bankrupt in a time of high economic activity nationwide.

i was making a general statement which is correct, but I don't know the entire Springfield situation I admit.

 

[Deleted member 592570]

A few sherbros can read more than a tweet.

Yeah the guys who don't want to hear it are going to derail and obfuscate but it's good info. Thanks for posting.

 

[Andy Capp]

i was making a general statement which is correct, but I don't know the entire Springfield situation I admit.

Except your general statement, whatever the fuck bullshit that is, isn't correct either. Give your head a shake.

 

[Koro_11]

Except your general statement, whatever the fuck bullshit that is, isn't correct either. Give your head a shake.

Here’s what I said, point out the part that’s not correct.

“I think most of us don't have a problem with a country bringing in immigrants LEGALLY, and expecting those immigrants to ASSIMILATE and respect the laws and norms of the society they came to. These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.“

 

[Andy Capp]

Here’s what I said, point out the part that’s not correct.

“I think most of us don't have a problem with a country bringing in immigrants LEGALLY, and expecting those immigrants to ASSIMILATE and respect the laws and norms of the society they came to. These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.“

So, if you don't have a problem with legal immigrants why are you even posting ITT? Please show me evidence of lacking assimilation and ghettos among these particular people in Springfield since that's what this thread is about, not made up bullshit about immigration in general.

I'd love for you to provide evidence for "unchecked illegal mass-immigration" too, if you don't mind, since that seems to be your main concern. I suggest you compare the number of people being sent back after coming through the southern US border illegally before, during, and after, the Trump administration, and how it relates to the specific subject of this thread, and then get back to me.

 

[ChosenOne]

I don't, I was speaking in general and I think my point still applies, it was obviously a bad idea.

So the town asked for exclusively Haitian immigrants?

Your point certainly does not apply in this case. The town folk do not seem to think it was a bad idea, outside, a few who will always have issues with different people moving in to the community.

No, back in 2017, when Trump was POTUS, the Town politicians and leaders has a number of target communities they marketed to. All of which Trump would shit hole nations. They were simply growing increasingly concerned that if they could not stem the population decline they would soon see the few major employers, then leave, which then accelerates more of the population to leave, in a cycle that ends at 'Ghost Town'.

 

[ChosenOne]

Here’s what I said, point out the part that’s not correct.

“I think most of us don't have a problem with a country bringing in immigrants LEGALLY, and expecting those immigrants to ASSIMILATE and respect the laws and norms of the society they came to. These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.“

What you are pointing at, has happened with every major immigrant wave arrival.

It is very much the norm, for the arriving generation to cloister, usually in the poorest area of the city they move to, creating or extending a ghetto area. Then as subsequent generations are born they increasingly move outwards in what Trump demonizes and says he will protect the 'suburbs' from.

The right wing magat complaint is that is wrong for them to live in ghettos but it is more wrong for them to move out, once they start gaining wealth.

 

[Koro_11]

So, if you don't have a problem with legal immigrants why are you even posting ITT? Please show me evidence of lacking assimilation and ghettos among these particular people in Springfield since that's what this thread is about, not made up bullshit about immigration in general.

I'd love for you to provide evidence for "unchecked illegal mass-immigration" too, if you don't mind, since that seems to be your main concern. I suggest you compare the number of people being sent back after coming through the southern US border illegally before, during, and after, the Trump administration, and how it relates to the specific subject of this thread, and then get back to me.

I already said that I was speaking generally, and I don't need to provide evidence to you because I haven't been there and I don't know what's actually going on, but I do know that residents of that town are going to the town hall and claiming it's a big issue. Maybe you've been there, maybe you live there and have some insider take that I don't, I'll leave it at I don't know but IF they're illegal they should not be there, and IF they're not assimilating they should not be there.

As for your asking me to provide evidence for "illegal mass immigration"... wtf? My wife is Cuban, I know of at least a dozen of her family members and acquaintances who have entered the States fairly recently with help from coyotes through Mexico. Hold on, before we proceed, is your position on this issue that this is not happening?

Also, wtf does Trump have to do with anything, why do people keep bringing up Trump to me as if I'm some Trumper, I'm talking about a general problem, I'm not pointing fingers who's more at fault so if you're expecting me to get into some partisan debate and defend politicians you got the wrong guy. I'm just asking basic and honest questions, these are not some gotcha arguments for fuck sakes, see if you can give straight forward and honest response and maybe not bring up Trump in every single thread.

 

[Koro_11]

What you are pointing at, has happened with every major immigrant wave arrival.

It is very much the norm, for the arriving generation to cloister, usually in the poorest area of the city they move to, creating or extending a ghetto area. Then as subsequent generations are born they increasingly move outwards in what Trump demonizes and says he will protect the 'suburbs' from.

The right wing magat complaint is that is wrong for them to live in ghettos but it is more wrong for them to move out, once they start gaining wealth.

Ok, but I'm saying large groups of immigrants who don't have a shared set of values with the country they come to live in, and don't wish to assimilate but instead try to build enclaves which resemble the countries they came from and which have completely different values, is a problem.

All you're saying is that this stuff is happening and is now the norm... yes thank you that's exactly my point. The fact that it's happening doesn't mean it's a good thing.

And again, what does right wing or maga have to do with this statement?

 

[Andy Capp]

i was making a general statement which is correct, but I don't know the entire Springfield situation I admit.

Here’s what I said, point out the part that’s not correct.

“I think most of us don't have a problem with a country bringing in immigrants LEGALLY, and expecting those immigrants to ASSIMILATE and respect the laws and norms of the society they came to. These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.“

I already said that I was speaking generally, and I don't need to provide evidence to you because I haven't been there and I don't know what's actually going on, but I do know that residents of that town are going to the town hall and claiming it's a big issue. Maybe you've been there, maybe you live there and have some insider take that I don't, I'll leave it at I don't know but IF they're illegal they should not be there, and IF they're not assimilating they should not be there.

As for your asking me to provide evidence for "illegal mass immigration"... wtf? My wife is Cuban, I know of at least a dozen of her family members and acquaintances who have entered the States fairly recently with help from coyotes through Mexico. Hold on, before we proceed, is your position on this issue that this is not happening?

Also, wtf does Trump have to do with anything, why do people keep bringing up Trump to me as if I'm some Trumper, I'm talking about a general problem, I'm not pointing fingers who's more at fault so if you're expecting me to get into some partisan debate and defend politicians you got the wrong guy. I'm just asking basic and honest questions, these are not some gotcha arguments for fuck sakes, see if you can give straight forward and honest response and maybe not bring up Trump in every single thread.

Except, what you actually said was,

"These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.

Also, you can't take a small town of 40 thousand people, and flood it with 15 thousand third world immigrants, there is no way that turns out well.... immigration works when migrants are trickling in, this is a flood."

Do you see any questions in this post? I don't. Why do you still misquote the population after we corrected you?

"The peak population of Springfield was in 1990, when its population was 70,718. In 1990, Springfield was the 331st largest city in the US; now its fallen to the 685th largest city in the US. Springfield is currently 17.9% smaller than it was in 1990."


"Based on the latest 2024 data from the US census, the current population of Springfield is 58,082. Springfield, Ohio is the 685th largest city in the US."
And check this out. In 2010, the population had fallen to 60K, and in 2020, after the Haitians were brought in, it had fallen to about 59K and it continues to fall to this day.

Springfield, Ohio Population History | 1880 - 2022

Access the most recent census population information for Springfield, Ohio, including a population profile and history.

www.biggestuscities.com

 

[Koro_11]

Except, what you actually said was,

"These immigrants should not be brought here to create ghettos that resemble the shitholes they escaped from, because the whole point of coming here was to not be in a place like that.

Also, you can't take a small town of 40 thousand people, and flood it with 15 thousand third world immigrants, there is no way that turns out well.... immigration works when migrants are trickling in, this is a flood."

Do you see any questions in this post? I don't. Why do you still misquote the population after we corrected you?

"The peak population of Springfield was in 1990, when its population was 70,718. In 1990, Springfield was the 331st largest city in the US; now its fallen to the 685th largest city in the US. Springfield is currently 17.9% smaller than it was in 1990."


"Based on the latest 2024 data from the US census, the current population of Springfield is 58,082. Springfield, Ohio is the 685th largest city in the US."
And check this out. In 2010, the population had fallen to 60K, and in 2020, after the Haitians were brought in, it had fallen to about 59K and it continues to fall to this day.

Springfield, Ohio Population History | 1880 - 2022

Access the most recent census population information for Springfield, Ohio, including a population profile and history.

www.biggestuscities.com

Maybe the reason that it’s falling right now is the Haitians, ever think of that?

 

[ChosenOne]

Ok, but I'm saying large groups of immigrants who don't have a shared set of values with the country they come to live in, and don't wish to assimilate but instead try to build enclaves which resemble the countries they came from and which have completely different values, is a problem.

All you're saying is that this stuff is happening and is now the norm... yes thank you that's exactly my point. The fact that it's happening doesn't mean it's a good thing.

And again, what does right wing or maga have to do with this statement?

Little Italy.
Greek Town.
Little Saigon
ChinaTown
Jewish Quarter
Little Russia
etc
etc

They ALL started as mostly ghetto poor settlement enclave areas, resembling the countries they came from, by people who "did not want to assimilate' (by your standard). Eventually these areas get 'gentrified' and people from outside those communities move in.

So no, in no way am i making your point. You seem to know nothing of history.

 

[ChosenOne]

Maybe the reason that it’s falling right now is the Haitians, ever think of that?

Why would he 'think of that' unless he was incredible daft?

 

[filthybliss]

Maybe the reason that it’s falling right now is the Haitians, ever think of that?

You are a victim of the dunning kruger effect....Springfields population has been dropping since the 70s, you can't pin it on the Haitians lmao

 

[Koro_11]

Little Italy.
Greek Town.
Little Saigon
ChinaTown
Jewish Quarter
Little Russia
etc
etc

They ALL started as mostly ghetto poor settlement enclave areas, resembling the countries they came from, by people who "did not want to assimilate' (by your standard). Eventually these areas get 'gentrified' and people from outside those communities move in.

So no, in no way am i making your point. You seem to know nothing of history.

1. Just because that's what happened it doesn't mean it was the best way to do it

2. Even if it was the best way to do it then doesn't mean it's the best way to do it now

3. There wasn't much to assimilate to back in the 18th and 19th century when most of the European settlers were coming, it was a wilderness previously ruled by primitive tribes. America today is a completely different example of a place with an established national identity, you're comparing apples and oranges

4. I've probably forgot more about history than you will ever know

 

[Koro_11]

You are a victim of the dunning kruger effect....Springfields population has been dropping since the 70s, you can't pin it on the Haitians lmao

And it's STILL dropping, so can you at least admit that importing 15 thousand Hatians didn't fix the problem?