Social Some trans queries, present and future considered.

[VivaRevolution]

Ill try and be concise.

In regard to LGBTs prolific media coverage, Ive most commonly heard the purpose is simply equality and acceptance, or conversely the erosion of the traditional family. Do you think either are true and why? If neither, what is the purpose?

Do you think the media or education saturation has a conversion effect on people, including children, that would otherwise be "normal"?

Similar to how it is presently considered barbaric to have had the existence of gay conversion camps, will it eventually be considered barbaric to refuse trans children hormonal treatments?

How profitable is it and who is reaping the winnings?

Why isnt compassionate counselling being utilized to at least first try to get children to accept themselves as they are? Ive never even heard of such a thing being considered before putting them on puberty blockers? If it was an attempted method would that eventually be looked at as barbaric as conversion camps? Also as far as Im aware the conversion camps were brutal so I know it might not be the best thing to compare something like counselling to.

Here is what I think.

I think the gay lobby, after normalizing being gay in this country, that instead of declaring victory, and having a fabulous parade, and moving on. Looked for a new cause, and found one in gender.

They have set gay progress back 20 years with this BS, and their is now backlash even in the gay community.

However, like the corporatist cunts they are, they refuse to acknowledge their failure, and are now doubling down on dumb, and we will see a even larger backlash grow until this reality slaps them so hard in their stupid corporate faces, that they are forced to back down.

 

[panamaican]

Could you expand on what you mean by this?
re: mentally ill and inequality

I never said anything about the mentally ill, I can't expand on what other people write. Let me be upfront, I don't really have time for the usual simpleton's games that you guys like to play.

Let's just acknowledge that I said something specific and you don't agree but you want to argue with me about some vague, tangential thing that reflects your general opinion on the issue but isn't actually aligned with what I said (already done). I mock the tangential thing, direct an insult at your general intelligence (done), get bored and move on (doing so).

You interpret the moving on in whatever fashion you like then you talk to your WR friends about your interpretation, and we can repeat this in some other thread in the near future.

Deal?

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I never said anything about the mentally ill, I can't expand on what other people write. Let me be upfront, I don't really have time for the usual simpleton's games that you guys like to play.

Let's just acknowledge that I said something specific and you don't agree but you want to argue with me about some vague, tangential thing that reflects your general opinion on the issue but isn't actually aligned with what I said. I mock the tangential thing, direct an insult at your general intelligence, get bored and move on. You interpret the moving on in whatever fashion you like,then you talk to your WR friends about your interpretation, and we can repeat this in some other thread in the near future.

Deal?

I was asking for clarification on what you meant, tangential or not on this thread.

this is a subject that interests me. Wasn't trying to set you up for "ambushes" or "Gotcha questions."

I suppose I should have included that under my question.

I don't know if I agree/disagree with you or not which I why I asked you to clarify.

 

[panamaican]

I was asking for clarification on what you meant, tangential or not on this thread.

this is a subject that interests me. Wasn't trying to set you up for "ambushes" or "Gotcha questions."

I suppose I should have included that under my question.

I don't know if I agree/disagree with you or not which I why I asked you to clarify.

So no deal.

You're not asking for what I meant because you're not asking me about anything that I said. Go back to my post, look for where I said anything about the mentally ill.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Disowning family members for being LGBT is more of a erosion of the family than women preferring women. Personally I've known 4 families destroyed because they have fathers or uncles that refused to have anything to do with their gay relatives. So they literally fleed the state and tried to find a better life in which only the LGBT community are available for them..


"family Values' my fucking ass...I"ve know some of the most beautiful and awesome people who got kicked out of their family for being gay and old Uncle Kenny liked to get drunk at christmas get together and goes on a rant about how gays are a cultural marxist plot to destroy to western civilisation.

I can't agree with this more.

I just can't imagine shunning a nephew, cousin, brother etc simply because he/she said they were gay.

If so and so came out to me I would be like, "ok...cool. Dgaf either way. you're still family."

 

[all caps]

It's like you guys think "divide and conquer" is just some crazy conspiracy theory.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

The direction that sessions take is going to be determined by the person taking the session. What they are feeling, what they are concerned about. Therapy isn't about telling them that X is okay or that Y is okay. It's about helping them work through their individual issues to reach a place where they can live with their decisions in the best way possible.

As my wife says when it comes to therapy, she uses marriage as an example. Sometimes, therapy shows you how to repair your marriage and sometimes it shows you that you need to get divorced. It's person specific.

So, for one person wrestling with gender issues, therapy is going to suggest that they give themselves more time to work through what they really want (I'm feeling this way but I'm not sure what it means or where it's coming from). For another person it might be about how to manage their gender issues in the face of potential social or familial rejection (I'm feeling this way but I'm scared because of what my friends will think). You just don't know until you've spent time with the client.

To return to the marriage example. Someone says "I hate my spouse", you don't agree or disagree about if they hate their spouse, instead you ask "Why do you think that is?" and go from there. And sometimes they don't really hate their spouse and sometimes they really, really do. And sometimes people have legitimate gender issues than can only be resolved with intervention and sometimes they don't. It's just not black and white enough to say that it's always, or even mostly, one direction in therapy sessions.

So no deal.

You're not asking for what I meant because you're not asking me about anything that I said. Go back to my post, look for where I said anything about the mentally ill.

I thought this post, (the first quoted one in this reply) was pretty interesting and a thoughtful take and on the matter.
when the issue of Transgender folk come up, the term "mentally ill" and/or "body dysmorphia" come up which is probably why I broached that term in my reply to you

like you, I'm not sure whether or not this is "mental health" issue.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

It's like you guys think "divide and conquer" is just some crazy conspiracy theory.

what do you think about this conspiracy theory? this "divide and conquer" theory

 

[nostradumbass]

"Progressives" don't get what they want and then they're just happy and get real jobs, they shift the complaints to something else. Doesn't seem like they had anywhere else to go after getting gay marriage and adoption so they took it to transgender kids and sterilizing them and saying, "misgendering" and "employers should ban discussions about topics women aren't interested in".

 

[all caps]

what do you think about this conspiracy theory? this "divide and conquer" theory

I think its blatant and somehow still working us over exactly as intended

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

I think its blatant and somehow still working us over exactly as intended

I think it's pretty blatant as well. not sure how extensive your CT is, but I have a few ideas.

 

[panamaican]

I thought this post, (the first quoted one in this reply) was pretty interesting and a thoughtful take and on the matter.
when the issue of Transgender folk come up, the term "mentally ill" and/or "body dysmorphia" come up which is probably why I broached that term in my reply to you

like you, I'm not sure whether or not this is "mental health" issue.

My misunderstanding then, the other poster was using "mentally ill" in a pejorative way and I mistook your post as a follow up on his.

I was just talking about therapy and therapy directions, which frequently doesn't involve mental disorders. There's also the issue that people say mental illness when the term used by the DSMs is mental disorder and it has a very specific definition which is itself very broad. The simplest way to describe it, and it's not my area of expertise, is that a mental disorder is something that arises within the individual, sourced within the individual, isn't part of a normal response to external factors or a social deviancy.

So, depression when your parent dies isn't a mental disorder because it's in response to a specific external factor but depression can be a mental disorder when there's not an external factor driving it. Phobias, for example, are mental disorders because the source is entirely within the person with the phobia but we don't call people with fear of heights "mentally ill". A person who's simple afraid of heights has a mental disorder but a person who fell 15 feet and now has a fear of heights doesn't.

When mental disorders get criticized as "mental illness" in spaces like the internet, it unfortunately misrepresents what those healthcare professionals are talking about and treating. I don't know anywhere near enough about transsexuals to speak on the specifics of that but the American Psychiatry Association says that kids as young as 4 can start to express gender concerns. Whether or not it's a mental disorder, meaning it's entirely driven from within, or a response to external factors is one of those things that the person conducting the session would presumably be tasked with figuring out.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

.

When mental disorders get criticized as "mental illness" in spaces like the internet, it unfortunately misrepresents what those healthcare professionals are talking about and treating. I don't know anywhere near enough about transsexuals to speak on the specifics of that but the American Psychiatry Association says that kids as young as 4 can start to express gender concerns. Whether or not it's a mental disorder, meaning it's entirely driven from within, or a response to external factors is one of those things that the person conducting the session would presumably be tasked with figuring out.

Thanks for this very detailed response.

going to process what you said...will respond later.

 

[lifelessheap]

How are you coping with it? I assume you have a strong support system.

 

[panamaican]

Watching old movies is not a support system - those are actors, it's not real. I hope you don't live alone.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

I thought this post, (the first quoted one in this reply) was pretty interesting and a thoughtful take and on the matter.
when the issue of Transgender folk come up, the term "mentally ill" and/or "body dysmorphia" come up which is probably why I broached that term in my reply to you

like you, I'm not sure whether or not this is "mental health" issue.

In my opinion for some it ( gender confusion) overlaps with mental health issues and for others it doesn't , this one of the reasons why I'm very uncomfortable with anything permanent being done to/for minors in regards to altering gender .

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

In my opinion for some it ( gender confusion) overlaps with mental health issues and for others it doesn't , this one of the reasons why I'm very uncomfortable with anything permanent being done to/for minors in regards to altering gender .

agreed 100 percent.

 

[MVelsor]

I think the gay lobby, after normalizing being gay in this country, that instead of declaring victory, and having a fabulous parade, and moving on.

They Did? Get Woke:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/british-ministry-of-justice-gone-mental.4075043/

#GayLiberation2.0

 

[MVelsor]

"Progressives"

Thanks for this very detailed response.

This is getting closer to the truth, @VivaRevolution. I'm sorry, but I don't think nor claim to have been born in the wrong god damn body so I can't even pretend to relate to a condition like that. Nor will I make any demands of society to shape itself around it (nevermind that a large portion of transgender people are actually heterosexual).

The "progressives, leftists, liberals" can go ahead and fight that war, but leave me out of it and all the fucking way out of anything that has to do with "educating children", period. I'm opposed to conversion therapy for minors in all forms, which again has LGB and T essentially working from diametrically opposed ends.

As I said in the other thread, somebody articulate "trans rights" to me. I don't even know what they are and I'm supposedly part of the same group, community and culture (uh, no). This is gay rights a.k.a. civil rights and I don't see how any of this constitutes special privileges of any kind tbh.

Since June 2003, sexual activity between consenting adults and of the same sex has been legal nationwide, pursuant to the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Lawrence v. Texas. As of June 26, 2015, all states license and recognize marriage between same-sex couples as a result of the Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges.

Adoption of children by same-sex married couples is legal nationwide, since June 2015, following the Supreme Court's decision in Obergefell v. Hodges. The Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010 permitted lesbians, gays, and bisexuals to serve openly in the US armed forces.

United States federal law does not include protections against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. This leaves residents in a majority of states unprotected against discrimination in employment, housing, and private or public services. Such protections are considered by the United States Congress under the Equality Act.

 

[MVelsor]

They have set gay progress back 20 years with this BS, and their is now backlash even in the gay community.

It's cool if you don't want sexual orientation (not gays, includes heteros by default) being made a protected class at the federal level, and I'm serious. The fact that it's 2020 and still hasn't happened actually says quite a bit. However, in that case religion should be removed from its prominent and highly privileged status as one.

* Race (since 1964)
* Color (since 1964)
* Religion (since 1964)
* National Origin (since 1964)
* Bio-Sex / Gender (since 1964)
* Sexual Orientation (never)