Social Some trans queries, present and future considered.

[VivaRevolution]

It's cool if you don't want sexual orientation (not gays, includes heteros by default) being made a protected class at the federal level, and I'm serious. The fact that it's 2020 and still hasn't happened actually says quite a bit. However, in that case religion should be removed from its prominent and highly privileged status as one.

* Race (since 1964)
* Color (since 1964)
* Religion (since 1964)
* National Origin (since 1964)
* Bio-Sex / Gender (since 1964)
* Sexual Orientation (never)

The sexual orientation thing was being won on the state level though.

Gender is a social construct, but it is also a biological construct.

I think every person has the right to live their life how they want. I don't think you should be protected from discrimination if you want to look like a lizard, or something equally outside of societal norms.

 

[MVelsor]

The sexual orientation thing was being won on the state level though.

20/50 states have made it a protected class.

I think every person has the right to live their life how they want. I don't think you should be protected from discrimination if you want to look like a lizard, or something equally outside of societal norms.

That's how I feel about flat-footed people. WTF?

Is it because there's so many damn fatties in this country? And you know which subdemo isn't responsible for these figures. It's a huge liability and threat, far more so than a lot of other shit discussed on here IMO.

In 2013, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that 57.6% of American citizens were overweight or obese. A forecast based on early long-term trends suggests that more than 85% of adults will be overweight or obese in the U.S. by 2030.[1]

Gross!

 

[VivaRevolution]

20/50 states have made it a protected class.



That's how I feel about flat-footed people. WTF?

Is it because there's so many damn fatties in this country? And you know which subdemo isn't responsible for these figures. It's a huge liability and threat, far more so than a lot of other shit discussed on here IMO.

In 2013, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that 57.6% of American citizens were overweight or obese. A forecast based on early long-term trends suggests that more than 85% of adults will be overweight or obese in the U.S. by 2030.[1]

Gross!

Is it a threat, or a solution to over population?

 

[MVelsor]

Is it a threat, or a solution to over population?

Maybe, but economic costs of obesity-related illnesses are no joke. Aside from high culture, population control is what the gheys should be for. However, little secret is that very few people are actually exclusively homo and far too many end up banging chicks that result in human reproduction.

Like, the adoption debate is really fucking amusing when nearly 70% of "gays" in the US with children are their biological own. Let those kids rot in a childhood of foster care squalor doe, it's not like SS (male) couples with kids pull an average of $275,000 a year or anything.

 

[MVelsor]

Similar to how it is presently considered barbaric to have had the existence of gay conversion camps, will it eventually be considered barbaric to refuse trans children hormonal treatments.

Conversion Therapy Is Wrong.

LGB? You shouldn't have to change a thing (right, correct, and you don't). Trans? Change Everything! Roll out the pronouns, puberty blockers, hormone therapy, gender reassignment and cosmetic surgeries... a lifelong medical patient. Oh, but this isn't considered the trans conversion therapy. That would be not changing a thing. <45>

What kind of barbaric motherfucker shit is this?



It honestly feels more like an existential threat than something I should be aligned with. Of course, saying that draws a lot of shock and vitriol from leftists who are not LGB/T. The most cordial reaction is absolute disgust with the lack of 'solidarity' in a "can't you empathize?" (i.e. stigma, discrimination) line of questioning. Yes, including from my own family and it just doesn't change my stance on how fundamentally different (often diametrically opposed) sexual orientation and gender identity are to me.

 

[bigkick]

I don’t know too much about this issue. As a normal guy, it’s simply impossible for me to wrap my head around wanting to be female. I will say that I’m uneasy with minors being allowed to make drastic physical changes to their bodies - girls cutting off their breasts, hormone treatments, etc. But again, I have no idea what it’s like to feel out of place in your own body.

My knee-jerk view is that trans people must have some sort of mental illness. But for every cringey PR stunt like Bruce Jenner’s public reveal, there are stories that seem more honest and legit, like the singer from Against Me! or the economist Deirdre McCloskey.

 

[MVelsor]

I don’t know too much about this issue. As a normal guy, it’s simply impossible for me to wrap my head around wanting to be female.

It's impossible as a gay guy too, particularly when your entire sub/culture essentially revolves around male body worship, masculine aesthetics and has done for centuries on end, if not thousands of years. It's not just impossible, but close to the worst thing imaginable tbh.

 

[Renard]

Disowning family members for being LGBT is more of a erosion of the family than women preferring women. Personally I've known 4 families destroyed because they have fathers or uncles that refused to have anything to do with their gay relatives. So they literally fleed the state and tried to find a better life in which only the LGBT community are available for them..


"family Values' my fucking ass...I"ve know some of the most beautiful and awesome people who got kicked out of their family for being gay and old Uncle Kenny liked to get drunk at christmas get together and goes on a rant about how gays are a cultural marxist plot to destroy to western civilisation.

It kind of makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. People have strong bonds with their family and invest heavily into their children because they carry their genes. A gay offspring, especially a male, doesn't continue the family line. So no matter how attractive, smart or successful they are, it's kind of irrelevant because they're out of the game - an evolutionary dead-end. In societies where it's taboo, family shame could actually provide the function of the gay offspring hooking up with someone as a cover and producing children anyway. It's almost "adaptive" in the sense the genes and family line continue despite the anomaly. It reminds me a little of the Cinderella effect - which is the effect of step-parents being much more likely to abuse the non-biologically related children of their partner. I'm not saying it's right BTW, I just find it an interesting phenomenon from a evolutionary and psychological perspective.

 

[MVelsor]

Personally I've known 4 families destroyed because they have fathers or uncles that refused to have anything to do with their gay relatives. So they literally fleed the state and tried to find a better life in which only the LGBT community are available for them.

I've know some of the most beautiful and awesome people who got kicked out of their family for being gay and old Uncle Kenny liked to get drunk at christmas get together and goes on a rant about how gays are a cultural marxist plot to destroy to western civilisation.

Good post. This has happened to some of my friends as well, it’s really sad and infuriating.

Ouch, too close. Disowned is pretty extreme, it's more like estranged and disconnected but tangible enough. I'll see them maybe once or twice every couple of years. The crazy rhetoric and slurs definitely aren't an in-person thing though.

 

[BEER]

Disowning family members for being LGBT is more of a erosion of the family than women preferring women. Personally I've known 4 families destroyed because they have fathers or uncles that refused to have anything to do with their gay relatives. So they literally fleed the state and tried to find a better life in which only the LGBT community are available for them..


"family Values' my fucking ass...I"ve know some of the most beautiful and awesome people who got kicked out of their family for being gay and old Uncle Kenny liked to get drunk at christmas get together and goes on a rant about how gays are a cultural marxist plot to destroy to western civilisation.

My uncle disowned his daughter (my cousin, obviously) when she came out as a lesbian. Kicked her out of the house.

Luckily, everyone else was willing to help and take her in. She lived with my parents for a few months.

 

[JLan98]

Ill try and be concise.

In regard to LGBTs prolific media coverage, Ive most commonly heard the purpose is simply equality and acceptance, or conversely the erosion of the traditional family. Do you think either are true and why? If neither, what is the purpose?

Do you think the media or education saturation has a conversion effect on people, including children, that would otherwise be "normal"?

Similar to how it is presently considered barbaric to have had the existence of gay conversion camps, will it eventually be considered barbaric to refuse trans children hormonal treatments?

How profitable is it and who is reaping the winnings?

Why isnt compassionate counselling being utilized to at least first try to get children to accept themselves as they are? Ive never even heard of such a thing being considered before putting them on puberty blockers? If it was an attempted method would that eventually be looked at as barbaric as conversion camps? Also as far as Im aware the conversion camps were brutal so I know it might not be the best thing to compare something like counselling to.

It's amazing to see how many right wingers are triggered by a group of people just wanted to be treated like equal citizens and live their lives the way they want.

Why do you view that as some nefarious scheme because a trans person wants to live as the gender they identify with? How does that effect you in any way?

 

[RetiredSlave]

It's amazing to see how many right wingers are triggered by a group of people just wanted to be treated like equal citizens and live their lives the way they want.

Why do you view that as some nefarious scheme because a trans person wants to live as the gender they identify with? How does that effect you in any way?

I appreciate the responses and have gained some new insights. If youre asking me personally, I made the thread out of simple curiousity. It was the Warren education minister thread that inspired this one. Im not married to or rigid on anything other than a belief that people should treat each other with respect, kindness and understanding if possible.

That being said the very nature of transgenderism is confusion and it is surrounded by the same. Were still primitive on neurology and psychology imo. My only real opinion on trans is pragmatically based, simply that it would be easier to accept the body a person was born in. That involves changing the brain/mind though. If in fact its more difficult to change the brain/mind and easier to change the body, then so be it, I dont have a problem with that.

Unlike sexuality which is an aspect of identity, trans is entirely about identity and often involves drastic irreversible change, which is often regretted and sometimes suicidally.

Also I know a trans woman and shes one of the sweetest men Ive ever met. Knitted me an amazing quilt. Just wanted materials and a bottle of whisky in return. Respect and a good day to you.

 

[JLan98]

Also I know a trans woman and shes one of the sweetest men Ive ever met.

 

[RetiredSlave]

Its a woman that believes shes a man. I guess I mixed that up. Shes a trans man then. I address him as such and respect his belief but internally I just cant reconcile the fact that I can clearly see that he has a womans body. Id like that respected as well since its a mutual trade at that point. Respect isnt supposed to go just the one way. Im just a caveman, your bright, loud and fast world frightens and confuses me.

 

[MVelsor]

My uncle disowned his daughter (my cousin, obviously) when she came out as a lesbian. Kicked her out of the house.

Luckily, everyone else was willing to help and take her in. She lived with my parents for a few months.

What age did she do that? There's young guys on subreddits always wondering if and when they should tell their fams. The consensus is pretty much that if you have to ask and aren't yet financially independent, then definitely don't.

It's amazing to see how many right wingers are triggered by a group of people just wanted to be treated like equal citizens and live their lives the way they want.

FWIW I wouldn't call @RetiredSlave a right-winger.

(definitely not by Sherdog standards anyway)

 

[BEER]

What age did she do that? There's young guys on subreddits always wondering if and when they should tell their fams. The consensus is pretty much that if you have to ask and aren't yet financially independent, then definitely don't.

She was 17 at the time. After couch surfing with friends and family for a while, she joined the army and got stationed in SK. Shes doing well now but hasn't spoken a word to her father in over 10 years.

 

[MVelsor]

I appreciate the responses and have gained some new insights.

There are several LGBers in here now.

 

[ocfightfan]

Mental illness and perversion are now rights, and anyone who has the slightest disagreement will be destroyed.

 

[MVelsor]

* Race (since 1964)
* Color (since 1964)
* Religion (since 1964)
* National Origin (since 1964)
* Bio-Sex / Gender (since 1964)
* Sexual Orientation (never)

The sexual orientation thing was being won on the state level though.

Here's an incredible piece of history. <45>

“I like the idea of amending the 1964 Civil Rights Act to include a ban of discrimination based on sexual orientation,” Donald Trump said in a 2000 interview with The Advocate. “It would be simple. It would be straightforward. Amending the Civil Rights Act would grant the same protection to gay people that we give to other Americans — it’s only fair.”

 

[squeezewax]